strenghtening big-box-bought DOORS (?)
I’m at a point in my project — putting up a big structure for myself, not working for another — where i’m going in to buy the doors. I’ll admit I do not want to buy them from a custom door-store just as a slab leaving me to do all of the fitting myself. I’ve got TEN doors(!) to put up and I’m doing this job entirely on my own on a slim budget so it’s looking like the local big-box pre-hungs are the way to go.
However, in looking them over closely the other night they appear to me to have gotten cheaper and cheaper over the last several years and now I swear I could easily kick one open if even just a little bit drunk or half angry. (if a little drunk AND half angry … no problemo) Does anyone have any thoughts about how to beef up these wimpy doors or some way to go that’s going to make a door not ONLY a passageway but also worthwhile as a security measure when one is away or at 3:30 a.m. when the black helicopters finally descend on you and DeNiro slides down the rope to break in?
Thanks –
nb
Replies
I have 2 quick SU drawings here. The door is one we did years ago on about 1500 doors, 3-0x7-0 90 minute rated. Stainless plate 1/4". Very effective at saving the door. The goal at the time was ensuring that if something broke, it was the jamb - ten bucks - vs the door, several hundred bucks.
The jamb is the same concept. The strength now relies a lot more on the actual lock. So use a good deadbolt. I can tell you just the doors being reinforced dropped the number of doors to repair in a year by about 90%. (This was at a university dorm).
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
my GAWD! 1500 doors?!!! Amazing!
So what I'm looking at is two slightly differing ways of approaching this both on the door ... one on the outside and one buried within? That's what it looks like to me. I'll have to look at these pre-hungs and see what might be possible along these lines. the thing is they're all 'foam' and even some 'cardboard' substructure under a thin veneer. Disgustingly light and ultimately flimsy.
thanks-
Well it's not like I routed those all out in one week or anything. It took months.
And yes. one method was for a solid cored door - metal insert with a wood filler out of the same wood as the door. The second is a way I've done on what you're talking about - when you have a steel door that you really cant put a plug in like the first example. It at least strengthens the jamb, and the routing is easily done. You can make the piece of stainless with a cutoff saw and a drill press for the hole. The small holes for the strike plate I just drill by hand after its in. (Pilot from the face with a small bit, widen the back out before you install the door with a larger bit so your wood screws can go through the steel and not get mucked up)
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
RW,Great solutions! I have a few questions for you about it.First one: How come stainless instead of plain steel?Second one: On the jamb reinforcement, it looks like the stainless is mortised in from the back of the jamb. Is is held in by screws, PL Premium, or what?Third one: Was this a solo job? If not, how many guys in the shop/in the dorm?Fourth one: Titebond to glue the door edge blocks over the door plates, or something else?Thanks,
Bill
On the dorm, an off site shop fabbed all the stainless. I don't know why that was the pick but it was. Another off site shop set a template for all of the plugs and made them as well. Two guys - myself and another - pulled, routed, filled, yada yada all of the doors, and fixed all the broken jambs and casing along the way.
On the steel in the jamb, I route it flat with a router, coat it with contact adhesive, let it set, coat it again, stick it, and have a couple of countersunk holes on each end (not drawn) that I set screws in. Make sure your length wont pop out the face. Then the strike plate screws go all the way through as well.Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
RW,
I'm just curious about your fire-rated door modifications. Did the labeling agency or the local fire marshall approve this?"Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
I'd love to give you a conclusive answer but at the time, decision making wasn't part of my job description. I have to think the answer would be yes since it was for a state university, but I don't know.Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
I'm not raggin' on you RW, it's just that--generally--any sort of field modification would void the fire rating. That being said, it's totally up to the AHJ(authority having jurisdiction)whether it be the city building inspector, fire marshall, code enforcement, etc.
Sometimes, fire ratings and high security are not the same thing. Usually the Fire Codes or Life Safety requirements prevail."Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
You can surely get pre-hung doors from any good lumberyard that are likely to be a heck of a lot better than the stuff that comes through the big boxes. You will pay some more but the reduction of frustration while hanging them alone will add a year or two to your lifespan.
I've replaced nearly all the interior doors with 1 3/4" solid core slabs, and the door frames are fire rated assemblies (don't know the rating) with insulated striping all around the jamb. The frame and doors had matching hinge cutouts, so I could just mount the doors to pre-hinged frames. The bolt holes are slightly reinforced if I remember correctly.
These are tough AND very quiet... and are came from HD.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
These are tough AND very quiet... and are came from HD.
These MUST've been special ordered, eh? Certainly not "off the floor".
I'll hafta look into this.
thanks -
Absolutely... not. :) These came right off the floor. The fire door frames come with the hinges that are 3/4" rounded edge, rather than the more square 1/4" or 1/2" (btw, I'm approximating that - it's the hinge style that is more rounded at the corners than square). The 1 3/4" solid core doors came as slab only... but the hinge cutouts matched the wood firedoor frames perfectly. The slabs are not fire rated as far as I can tell (no metal plaque on them).
HD in different areas may have different inventory though. If you have trouble finding it, I'll get your the product ID number that they use internally.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Well, reading between the lines I guess you are referring to exterior doors but 10???? What are you building, a motel or a convent? Or, maybe a home for wayward girls? If so you better get some good locks too ;-) BTW - the big box can order you better than the in-stock cr@p for not too much $$$. What are you looking at? Steel, fiberglass, wood?
What are you looking at? Steel, fiberglass, wood?
this is one of the factors i'm still trying to decide upon. Any suggestions?
the 'steel' is really just a very very thin steel 'skin' ... and looks easily permanently 'dentable'. I like the original look ... but wouldn't like it dented. I wonder if fiberglass is any good(?).
Yes ... 10 outdoors. This is, as mentioned many times here before, a tall, four story 'tower' with several ground floor entrances, separate second floor entrance and several decks on varying floors. Therefore, all to the outside.
thanks -
nb
Edited 10/8/2006 12:33 am ET by newbuilder
Just kidding about the "what are you building thing" :-)
>>What are you looking at? Steel, fiberglass, wood?
this is one of the factors i'm still trying to decide upon. Any suggestions<<
Steel: least expensive. Can and does get dented. Dents are fixed with body putty. Dents are less of an issue on less frequently used doors, like the balcony doors you mentioned. Can start to rust on the bottom edge after a number of years especially if not well painted to start with. Security is pretty good. Very common for non-primary entry doors in homes in my area.
Fiberglass: Mid priced, no dents. Can warp, but I've never seen it. Good for primary entry doors. Used as back door, etc, on premium priced homes. Come in smooth or wood grained, and often the smooth are less expensive.
Wood: mid priced to most expensive, although I wouldn't want to be responsible for the longevity of a less expensive wood door. Can crack or warp. Used as primary entry doors on premium priced homes. Best appearance if you want the stained look.
BTW - a word about security: security is as much in the jamb as it is in the door itself. Think about it, when a door gets kicked down, what gives? - it's the jamb.
Speaking of jambs, a number of door manufacturers are now either using PVC or composite materials for the brick mold and on the jambs, finger jointing in a piece of composite for the bottom 6" or so of the jambs. The reason being that most often the first thing to go an an exterior door is rot of the bottom edges of the jambs and exterior molding. It's always best to paint these bottom edges before the door is installed.
On all the doors I see the threshold is made of a non rust material like aluminum or bronze.
IMO - doors just like any other material need to match the overall price of a home. IE: who puts granite countertops in a $100K home? (excluding the eccentrics at BT :-) ) So, the least expensive homes get steel doors everywhere. Next step up will be fiberglass entry, with steel back door, etc. Deluxe homes will get custom wood entry doors with either fiberglass or steel secondary doors. Deluxe home may even get a fiberglass primary entry door if it is to be painted.
Gene is our resident door expert if you have any real specific Q's.
Matt,
Thanks for the great response ... I'm going to save it.
Here's a 'last' question on this (I think) that, if it gets no response here as this thread may be played out, I'll post as a separate question:
I'm looking at doors from a salvage yard (see here: http://seconduse.com/inventory/list.php?cPath=36
and they (some) DO come with jambs ... but NOT with threshholds. Is it easy enough to build a threshhold for an exterior door? Is there "threshhold material" or "threshhold wood" that one can buy? Or does the fact that the HD doors come WITH threshold attached really save a LOT of time and trouble?
thanks -
nb
I would not want any more FG doorsFor steel skinned, they can be had in several different gauge steel, from paper thin to cardboard thick. Ask at a real lumberyard. but if you are saying you want the big box price and the real door store quality, you are up a crick.What climate? what part of town?
That can make a difference whether you really need heavier or not...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry, just noticed the name - I know where you are. Is it close enough to salt water to worry about that causing rust?As for those used, it takes some examination of each door to guess whether or not it will be worth while. As a general rule, we have a saying around here that only a wealthy man can afford used doors and windows - considering the time you have to put into them...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!