I just got chewed out by the building inspector for toe-nailing gable end studs to the rafter. He said they either had to be blocked, or a “strongback” installed. He was rather rude and demeaning, so I was hesitant to admit I had no idea what he was talking about. Can anyone clue me in on what a strongback is?
Thanks
Replies
Go see him in his office and ask him politely what he wants done and how. If he is not polite and helpful in return, talk to his boss. You are paying his salary with your taxes and deserve reasonable treatment. The other alternative is to take a picture and put it here so we can see exactly what you have built. From your description, I am not sure what the situation is. Take a closeup and one that shows more of the gable and rafter. You could also look at some houses in the area that have passed inspection and see how they did it.
Man, this is creepy. I fail an inspection an hour ago, and within 50 minutes I get expert advice from builders all over the country. I take a digital photo, post it instantly, and the whole world can see my problem.
Not many people build stick construction on a crawlspace around here (Southern California), as everything is tract homes with trusses. I have a hard time seeing how things are done now, as all my reference houses are 70 years old. I appreciate the help.
Caution Jack #### talking.
If you look at the bearing of the last two bays of the roof, maybe like 4' or more? load being carried to the wall top plate. The problem is that the load is carried by 1+1/2x1+1/2" stock so thats his problem. He wants to see it carried by the 2x4 with a full bearing on top, as in a top plate or as he said a strong back which will be say a 2x4 on the vert on the inside of the bay so it is producing a 3" bearing using the existing framing.
No caution here
Nice looking framing.
That's nice work. If I were in your shoes, I would cut some 2X4s and sister them up to your current gable studs. Notch them as others have told you, extending them almost all the way to the roof sheathing. Most framers are not too particular about getting the cuts precisely angled to give full bearing wherever possible. I think a typical nail is rated for about 320 lbs of shear strength, so it is generally accepted to let the nails carry the load. Personally, I cut the angles for full bearing, which is probably symptomatic of why I will never get rich in this business, although my personal satisfaction rating is very high.Les Barrett Quality Construction
Thanks guys- I appreciate all the imput. I have to admit I'm still a little confused why it has to be so strong, as a gable end wall is not a bearing wall, it is a partition wall. In fact, the roof was framed and sheeted without any gable end walls,at all, as the two outside walls bear the weight of the rafters (and did so just fine for three weeks). The weight of the overhang on the ridge is spread to the two outside rafters, and the ceiling joist collar ties keep the two walls from spreading. The bottom of the overhangs are supported by 4x4 lookouts sitting on top of the ceiling joists wedged against the rafters.
But to wrap up the story, I nailed 2x4s flat on top of the gable studs and nailed this to the rafters, which took a whole 30 minutes, probably less time than we've spent talking about it. As for the inspector, he doesn't know I took a college class from his boss and his boss is who did plancheck on my house, so I'm willing to cut him some slack. He mellowed out when he walked around the rest of the house and saw I knew what I was doing (and knew his boss). Thanks again guys.
Nice job on the framing. It looks very clean :-)
FWIW, I live in soCal in a stick framed house over a crawlspace, built in 1951, and the gable end studs are notched like the right hand drawing in Joe Carola's post #11. Done well, your solution for the inspector is as good or better than what I have, IMHO.
Bill
Since the inspector wanted a plate OR blocking, I don't think it's a strength issue as much as a fire issue.
Since the inspector wanted a plate OR blocking, I don't think it's a strength issue as much as a fire issue.>>>>>
mike
thats exactly what I was thinking.
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All I can say is, I hope the construction I'm forced to take a picture of to get help here is as neat and tidy as what you've posted! And the posts in response just prove how great a resource this forum is!
Sounds like you bevel-cut your studs to the gable rafter. Traditionally you would notch the stud up onto the rafter, almost all the way to the roof sheathing, which makes for better nailing and keeps the rafter from rolling.
A common modern method is to cut a top plate for the gable studs, which fits tight to the underside of the rafter. He is probably asking you to retrofit a top plate against the side of the rafter, which will overhang your studs to the inside by 1 1/2".
For fire safety reasons you aren't supposed to have a vertical cavity (between wall studs) meet a horizontal cavity (between rafters).
Or, just ask the inspector what he wants.
Sounds like this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. A strongback from where I'm from is when you nail a 2x4 down flat perpendicular to the ceiling beams and into the top of the ceiling beams at mid span out to the outside of the gable wall nailed along side a gable stud or if it lands in the center of the gable studs you can put a block in the size of the ceiling beam and then nail a 2x6 on edge into the 2x4 and toe-nailed into the top of the ceiling beam.
Him chewing you out for toe-nailing the gable studs to the rafter has nothing to do with a strongback. Blocking .........Where?
Joe Carola
Joe, don't you think he might have meant "make it like a strongback", so the rafter and top plate form an "L" like a ceiling-joist strongback?
Mike,
I don't know what the inspector meant because the way he framed those gable studs are fine we do it all the time and I've never heard an inspector question it before. To put a top plate on what he has now would only be for a nailer for sheetrock if that room was cathedral. He's going to nail sheathing to those gable studs there's nothing wrong with the way he did it at all.
When I frame a room that's cathedral I will notch out the gable stud 1-1/2" and run the notch just under the sheathing and then I'll use a rafter nailed into the notched part as a nailer for sheetrock because I think it stiffens up the gable.
I've done them several different ways like in this drawing but the way he did it is fine but if Mr Inspector wants him to put a 2x4 on top then he has to.
Joe Carola
If your going to go with the strongback, dont forget the weak mind!!! >:-) You know, stong back, weak mind!! Sorry, couldnt help myself.
Id go along with everyone else and find out exactly what the inspector wants/means by a strongback. I would guess he meant something like first picture that Framer posted (http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=50116.11), but who knows.
Good luck! Maybe the inspector was just having a bad day or had some other problems that none of us/ you could know about.
-m2akita
I've seen boards nailed horizontally across the face of gable studs that were called "strongbacks". I do that on gable trusses over about 8' tall.
But the inspector could mean just about anything. I agree with the others who say to ask him. Otherwise you're just guessing about what he wants.
If he was rude, I'd be sure to complain to his supervisor. Unless someone says something, they'll never know he's a jerk.
9 out of 10 doctors say the 10th doctor should mellow out.
I think Mike Maines in posting #3 has the right idea.
Don't let an inspector intimidate you, work politely with them, they really appreciate that most of them are first rate experienced professionals, but if it continues absolutely take no guff. Go see his boss and, again explaining politely, request that he not be sent on your job if possible. A few years ago an electrical inspector was getting on people's cases I went to his boss and told him to keep him off my jobs. His boss knew what I was talking and agreed that a level playing field was not being created. The inspector had different rules for different people. Chances are other contractors have complained also. On one heated occasion the inspector, being mentioned, was punched in the nose, I didn't agree with that and it caused no end of trouble for the "puncher", years later the electrical inspector was let go.
We have to do that all the time on larger gables here in south Louisiana.
Just nail a 2x4 flat against the gable studs, then nail a 2x6 perpendicular to that.
Quite often we also put one or two braces down to the walls.
It does help stiffen the gable considerably.
Dryrot, I'm not going to add anything...everyones already said enough. I am going to ask you though....Why didn't you just ask him what he mean't when he was standing there?!!!!
Okay..I will tell you what I'd do at this juncture. I'd put the strongback on top of the studs. Kinda like backing...out into the attic. I'd then toenail to this member again. The clue that I'm getting from your inspector is "either block it....". This tells me that he's worried about the studs twisting out of control during the drying process. Blocking would eliminate that process.
The longest stud in your wall appears to be 6' of less...so the need for additional stiffness seems doubtful, especially since thestuds are orientated the way that they are. I'm guessing that sheating will be added later, so that will tie the studs to the rafter quite nicely.
There isn't anything there that would get my attention..but I'm not familiar with earthquake country either.
It looks good to me
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!