What climates would stucco NOT be recommended?
I am building in Oxford, NC, and am considering stucco for a small ranch. I am conserned because it’s humid here, and the fact that almost NO new homes use stucco.
If it is OK to use here, what type and does it matter if I use OSB or Plywood for my wall sheathing? I am assuming Tar paper (15 lb?) and an expanded wire mesh beneath the stucco. I will tint it, not paint it. I also would like to do the work myself.
Thanks!
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Replies
There's a reason "no one's using it"- there's probably no one in the area to install it.
After all of the EIFS problems of the last decade, many "stucco" contractors folded up. Now, in Atlanta and a few other places down south where there are still stucco crews, homes are getting true 3-coat stucco systems and being marketed as "real stucco". Personally, I don't think it's a bad choice for your area, but if you can't find someone to install it properly, it could become a real disaster.
Bob
I wouldn't try to install it yourself. My plastering guy does a lot of stucco in PA. He tells me that most of his suppliers won't even sell their product to someone who hasn't gone through that companies training courses, like he has.
I'm a little hesitant but I am using it in some small areas on the new house I'm building for myself this summer.
I think you must have an installer that knows exactly what they are doing.
With all of the problems that stucco homes have had, I wonder why anyone would even consider the stuff. I understand that quality and durability depend heavily on the installer -- but how ya' gonna know?
Think fiber cement, or think brick.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
YesMaam,
Obviously you know all about why I'm using it. The wife wanted it and I said YesMaam.
But I did say small areas.
You said:
"With all of the problems that stucco homes have had, I wonder why anyone would even consider the stuff."
Then why would they be using so much of it over most of Florida, which certainly gets its share of tropical storms.
Whaddya call this?
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I live in east central Florida and we have nothing but stucco. In fact I am in the process of replacing my masonite lap siding and insulation board underlayment with new plywood and having it stuccoed. I am using a 30# felt because I don't know how soon I will be able to get the mud on. I am a carpenter by trade but have our sub willing to do the stucco as long as I have the mesh up. We use a yellow plastic lath as we are close to the ocean. I don't have the comparisons over metal lath but it gets stapled on the same way. This will be typical scratch, brown and finish coat system, not synthetic.
you will be using the... scratch, brown and finish coat I assume,
synthetic was the problem, as far as i know real portland stucco is used the world over without problems...
as far as suppliers selling it to you.... it's sand & portland and some people add lime
I do like the mesh that they used with synthetic stucco systems... the real fact is the synthetic system was 90% of the time applied over a very thin coat of real portland stucco... synthetic stucco was/is nothing more than very thick latex paint with sand added in... most all the problems with it were it was like putting your house in a plastic bag ... trapped lots of moisture that had no way to escape which led to lots lof rot.... people claimed it was poorly flashed... which alot was but that in itself wasn't the huge issue... its that the water that entered had no where to escape to once it did... lots of wood gets wet and never rots... because it gets to dry out...
as for your project... you can do a really nice 2 coat system ie..scratch & finish i use regular masons sand & regular type 1 portland for the scratch coat and i use fine white or as they call it here "golf course sand" and white type 1 portland for the finish coat.. keep everything damp control your rate of drying leave expansion gaps and i think you'll be fine
p
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Climate here is like the South. What you often see is foam over the sheathing, taped, then (maybe) housewrap, then some vertical 3/4 inch thick strapping, half-inch flexible cement panel, caulked, then acrylic stucco. Is there any problem with this sort of installation?
"synthetic was the problem, as far as i know real portland stucco is used the world over without problems..."Not exactly.JLC has run an article or two on it.One by a guy that specializes in repairs. That there are two many new people applying stucco that don't understand all of the needed details.BTW, I am very curious about what happened here.http://www.mongermusic.com/side-large.jpgThe only thing that I know is that the building is 1 yo and build by a "mass builder". No idea of the location or the type of stucco.
I'm going out in the morning to inspect two Mobile Homes that I have insured that have been "stuccoed". Oh my God, what a mess. With the moisture trapping that most stucco is known for, why, oh why, would anyone consider putting stucco on a Mobile Home ? One lady had her driveway asphalted at the same time.
I asked the first lady that called who it was that did the work. She tried to name a contractor, "J & L, JLS, something like that" she said. Didn't have a clue who it was that she had been doing business with. No permits, I'm sure, and probably not licensed or insured. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that this was a "travleing salesman" or an Irish Traveler. We don't cover materials or workmanship, so it'll be the homeowner's problem.
Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware. I'll report back in tomorrow.
Greg
Thanks for all the input.
I had thought of Florida, as I've seen many homes similar to the one posted. I'll make some calls and see what's available (outside the quickcrete bags @ lowes).
stucco over cement block only
never over tarpaper covered plywood
Properly flashed and detailed stucco should be fine. The difference is in the details. What problems are you so concerned about?Kirk
Edited 4/6/2006 12:32 pm ET by KirkG
they keep putting it on $800k homes here coastal south carolina
and it will fail bringing all the lawsuits etc. lots wood rot underneath
EIFS (artificial Stucco) had lots of problems, and most were tracked back to poor installation. "Real" Stucco hasn't had the same problems, that I am aware of, so again, what are the specific problems you are seeing.I have see poor installation on all types of siding coverings, and window and door details, so I don't think the problem is with the stucco component IF it is properly installed.Kirk
OK, whew ! I inspected the MH, and they had parged the expanded metal foundation skirting with portland cement. Still vinyl siding on the sidewalls. The way she described it, I thought she had stucco'ed the entire trailer.
Greg
they keep putting it on $800k homes here coastal south carolina and it will fail bringing all the lawsuits etc. lots wood rot underneath
This was the same problem we have been finding in Mobile, Al. The codes changed which helped in the rot problem. We now have to brick or use some other material from the foundation up to a certain point, I believe is about min. 2 ft. I personally would not build a home out of stucco in areas of high probability of rain and moisture. The homes in California and other areas in the west are primarily stucco for this reason, never rains.
Semper Fi
"stucco over cement block only
never over tarpaper covered plywood"Excuse me? I am tearing apart homes built in the 70's with stucco'd Gables and have yet to see any rot. Thank god they didn't nail them on 4" centers back then though!
All this stuff about how stucco is sure to fail is wearing me down.
It all goes back, I'm sure, to the huge bad press that EIFS got back in the 90s, mostly in the state of NC, where knownothing builders hired knownothing subs to decorate houses from the piedmont to the tidewater, without a clue as to how to do it.
Go and have a look at the outsides of virtually every bigbox store or chain restaurant or 26-screen multiplex or freeway stop motel you can find. What do you see?
Stucco. A.K.A. EIFS.
Anybody hearing of EIFS failure on the commercial side of things?
its not bad press its me and my wife walking in the two subdivisions on the sides of ours with 5 - 8 homes $500k each 2 story with the 5 year old stucco being pulled off showing the really black rotten plywood underneath.
bad press is not the problem
I don't doubt you are looking at problem applications. We've friends out in Wild Dunes on Isle of Palms that had to have their houses ripped down to the studs.
The bad press is all that given to the problem and blaming the materials.
As I said in my earlier post, it was dumbsh*t GCs having dumbsh*t yo-yos do the work.
And I'll bet you have plenty of it in sight, problem-free, down at the ol' shopping plaza.
We've had several commercial siding failures that I am aware of in my area (burbs east of San Francisco). Complete R&R required. Idgits come in all flavors...
Edit to add: Just did some remodel on our 1965 stick frame. The studs looked great. REAL (3-coat) stucco - accept no substitutes!
Edited 4/9/2006 1:30 am by wrudiger
JLC has a article about stuccoo problems a couple of years ago.Seems as they where also seeing problem with 3 coat also. Because there where new people that did know or understand all of the details.And there where a bunch of problems with condos in Vancover (?) a few years back and I think that they where conventional stucco. But I might be wrong on that.
my only thoughts is that the stucco industry seems to be always saying
"well those problems are gone now, and weve got it figured out- "
but thats what they were saying 5 years ago when the present day failures were built.And there seem a lot of ifs
if its falshed right if it does not leak if if if
What's this? Well I'll be darned!
And where is it? Isle of Palms.
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It's all in the application, Edward. You a GC? A stucco sub? Didja do that job out at Yacht Harbor Villas?