I have a new home builder asking me to fix some issues with misinstalled and broken windows.
I have been in touch with the new homeowner who’s been in about a month and he’s not real happy with the response of the builder to complaints. Well this isn’t any new news , but I don’t know this builder at all and I’m trying to cover my bases so I get paid.
If I enter into a contract with the builder for work on a property he no longer owns I don’t see where I’d have any recourse if he balks at paying.
How do you all do this?
(hope this makes sense.)
Replies
Run into this. Assuming you didnt do the bad install on the first go around, or whatever the issue is, I have seen contracts periodically where another sub will go in and unf**k the mess made by the first guy. Yes, the builder doesn't own the place, but in most places, he's obligated for the first year to warranty the work. If it's faulty, reputations go down the tubes. You might charge him a couple of grand for your work, the alternative is less affordable. Ive run into it where the manufacturer was no longer in business, so no-one was around to provide replacement parts, so new materials were bought and installed, also seen where the first sub did such a lousy job neither the GC nor the homeowner wanted them back again. My opinion, you sign a contract with him, you're on solid ground.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
I do punchout for four builders and the way I like to do it is charge for time and materials plus a stiff premium rate, because punchout is more about customer servive than repair. These jobs always have to be done yesterday and the homeowner is already pissed off because their home isn't perfect. One of the builders just made me an offer if I take care of punchout and customer service he gives me all his remodel,additions etc. letting me make a 100% of the profit and use his subs when needed. This is on a trial basis as he has huge mess of past service that I'm trying to rectify. One of the things I want to control is the quality of work during new construction so that punchout is minimized. My plan is to do daily inspections at night and photo all utilities before rock is up.I want to set up dryerase boards on every site to communicate with dumpsters and temp elec on every site. To often these guys try to be cheap at the inconveniance of their subs. any ideas on how to make the job sites more functional would be appreciated?
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Thanks for the quick responses.
The problem is this:
Framers installed some windows wrong.
Mason bricked tight too sill.
Mason dropped bricks on sills.
Drywall delivery blew out side frames.
The list goes on. It doesn't appear on the surface that with all these problems on 1 house this builder has a good grasp on the concept of building. He called this in as a warranty claim to the widow manufacturer who quickly told him "I don't think so". The window co. gave him my name to do the repair work.
This isn't giving me that warm fuzzy feeling I need to proceed as normal.
I'm thinking now of contracting with the HO and advising him to be paid in full before I start the work. Here in the "Peoples Republic of Maryland" I'm not allowed to ask for more then 1/3 at contract. The HO however can ask for it all.
any other thought or ideas?
I need help!
I love the way you think, and I have been there, too. Just one thing:
"I want to set up dryerase boards on every site to communicate.."
Some subs may not take kindly to The Board and reap havoc with your dryerase marker. <g>
I would recommend a duplicate form, better yet, a triplicate form. One copy for the site on a prominately hung clipboard, one copy for the builder, and one for your own records. (*cya*)
Daily visits and photos are great ideas! Keep thinking: zero punch, zero punch, ....<g>
darcy
Are you using my zero-punchlist concept again???? lol
well, yours, and Sonny's, and.....!
The builder has the responsibility to address warranty issues. He should set and appointment with the homeowners to personally inspect and identify any issues they may have.
My questions are:
Was there a walk-thru?
Were all of the items identified at the walk-thru addressed by the builder, prior to the homeowner's occupancy? If the HO's are unhappy with the builder, this could be part of the problem.
If the windows are malfunctioning (I assume that's what was meant by broken) it could be a simple repair.
But, mis-installed?
I would be sure to get a very detailed list of exactly what the builder wants you to repair. (A simple floorplan with the exact windows marked, preferably.)
Once you get there, the HO's may have a list of other items...Bring a clipboard, listen, write it down, and hand it back to the builder.
Are the HO's and builder covered by a warranty program, like 2-10? (The builder is still responsible to repair, but if he refuses they provide avenues to ensure the work gets done.)
If you have doubts about the builder paying, then maybe you shouldn't work for him.
Does this help?
I'm only in this for the window repairs.
As for the broken window the glass is smashed. This happened over 2 months ago and the HO knows the builder could have had a replacement in 15 working days.
All the issues were brought up at walk through and I realize the builder is responsible to have them repaired. These repairs are not simple and the replacement materials are expensive. But it is illegal to contract work for a property you do not own and if he decides that it's still a window warranty issue and I should take my bill up with the window mfg, I'm screwed.
If I tell him to pound sand he'll call the mfg and I'm off the recommended list.
I'm virtually the only one in this area that can do the repairs and maintain the windows original warranty.The builder knows it. I'm just trying to make sure I get paid.
First of all, the damaged window panes should have been replaced well before the homeowner's occupancy. If the builder knew about it, then there is no excuse!
This window issue is NOT a warranty issue!! New homes should be delivered in complete condition. That would include no broken window panes.
Sorry for my rant, but I was a Warranty Department Manager, and our Superintendent used to try shove-off a bunch of un-done tasks on his supposedly "finished" homes to my department....uugh! (ouch, my budget!)
"But it is illegal to contract work for a property you do not own..."
HUH? This can't be right! If so, that's craziness!
The builder should be able to use (contract with) whomever he chooses, (or needs to, if it was a subcontractor who did work on the house). (Is he unable to address his own warranty issues because of some weird law? This does not sound right to me.)
"and if he decides that it's still a window warranty issue and I should take my bill up with the window mfg, I'm screwed."
Ultimately, it was HIS job as builder to inspect that all materials were in good condition, when received and installed. Did he ever report it to the window manufacturer?
As well, it was HIS job as builder to safe-guard the entire job. If the window was broken during the construction process (yeah, stuff happens), he should have some idea who may have been responsible for breaking it. And, no matter anyway, he should have just taken care of it. He should have those type of things "built-in" to his profit margin.
Who installed the windows?
If possible, I would make an appointment with the homeowners to inspect the windows, before commiting to the job. I believe you should have a right to do this. Then make your decision, and ask for at least a large precentage up front from the builder. He sounds like a flake to me.
darcy
.
In Maryland you can only ask for 1/3 upon signing the contract......
If anyone here needs/wants advice about customer service, I can’t recommend any better person who would more personify that important aspect of any business, than Darcy. She literally reeks of a philosophy that wraps the “client†with personal, professional, organized, well communicative, and most important, intuitive - customer service - to an art form.
I started doing finish up work for a GC who specializes in high end work - mainly from about $200K to well over $1M projects. I use the term “finish up work†because as he told be his super brings job to about 99% completion but has a problem getting the remaining minor stuff done. Add to that the minor changes by his designer and I end up working on these projects for between 2-4 days.
I view, photograph and ball park each item to be done. Then I give him a Proposal with a minimum and maximum price. So far it’s worked out well and I’ve since received work from other GC’s to do the same, plus now warranty work as well. Always give at least a ball park before proceeding, but in any case, the ball park prices are on paper and signed. My ball park includes my time to visit the site, evaluate, and list and photograph the items to be done.
The tricky part is to not bad mouth the GC or concur with the owner when/if they make a derogatory comment about the GC.
“Well Mrs. Smith, if Joe wasn’t interested in taking care of your concerns, he wouldn’t be paying the most expensive person in town to take care of you and make darn sure that you’re very happy with everything. He also told me that if I happened to notice anything else that was missed, and even by you, to just take care of it. For example, see this little 2†strip of discolored floor tile grout. Well, it’s not on the list, but I’ll take care of it.â€
GC is happy and his reputation is enhanced with his customer. But this approach only works for those GCs who are sincerely interested in properly servicing their “clients†as opposed to treating them as “customers.
Be careful in selecting the GCs you will to do this work for. You don't want to just put out fires, but instead, create loyal clients for him, but his attitude must be deserving of your services since your own reputation is on the table as well.
As soon as I introduced myself the woman of the house hit me with both barrels. So bad I want to say "stuff this" and bolt.
Instead I said - Lady I'm here to make you absolutely esatatic and you husband won't mind a bit. Now if you let me take care of all your woes...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Imerc - "our" woes.
You got the right attitude. Please, teach that to others.
I've used that line since and breaks the ice well.
That woman so pizzed over the service she had gotten to date and lit into me so hard it was unreal.
Up front she told me that she was worst bitch I would ever meet.
At the end of the job she made a great dinner for myself and crew. We also worked around a swing shift husband.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Sonny, you are so right!
"The tricky part is to not bad mouth the GC or concur with the owner when/if they make a derogatory comment about the GC."
That's why you should always bring a clipbroard for notes, because if you are there for one repair, you may often hear anearful. Be very kind, and understanding. Afterall, this home was a great investment for them. . .
Thanks, Sonny. You have been a great mentor.
darcy
Imerc, Darcy, et all, most contractors, while furious themselves if they were to find some “punch out†work that had to be done to the new $25K pick up the day they went to pick it up, still just don’t grasp the concept that our customers feel the same thing about their remodeled or newly built homes - that they just bought a piece of sh*t!
Plain old empathy, understanding and the Golden Rule, goes a long way to thrilled clients and increased bottom lines. Rocket science it is not. It is apparently what is called “un-common†sense, since common sense is going the way of dinosaurs.
Darcy, you are a natural. It’s in your genes. All I did was offer a few tips. In fact, get started on: “Customer Service, Warranty, and Punch Out Elimination.†The book proceeds will provide your retirement fund.
Okay Sonny, I am ready when you are. . . let's go!
(And I am NOT that old! geez...)
PS
We could sure use your help over at the Reducing Punchlist thread...
Did I say “retirement fund?†Er, ah, what I really meant was, ahhh - “re-tire fund†- ah - for your car. Yea. That’s the ticket. Geez, I gotta replace this “old†keyboard. It just don’t print out what I type into it any more.
OK, we’ll co-author it.
Reducing Punch List thread huh. I'll look for it. But remember, I'm a trouble maker.
Darcey,
Have you got a list of items that you check off with the homeowner during walk throughs.
One of my most used lines is that the builder is very good in his design and build stage but because of the large amount of jobs going on at one time he tends to loose track on the last stages in the building process.So this is why he has hired me, to fix what is wrong and make your new home experiance as pleasant and satisfying as humanly possible.
If they can't miss work I volunteer to come by in the evenings. If they have difficuty scheduling with a sub I will intercede and try to arrange a time when I can be there with the sub. I have gone as far as waiting outside in the backyard for a rat that was coming in the house every night and keeping them up.
Personally, I kind of like this interaction with the H.O.. This might also explain why I like remodel over new construction. My next goal in doing this is trying to improve the product during the construction stage so that my contact with the homeowner is more on the lines of "where would you like your towel racks and can we do anything to help your move in" instead of " yes mam that hammering pipe noise is unacceptable and we will have to tear out half the ceiling to find it which will mean a huge mess and several days of workers coming in and out of your home ,so sorry"
My builder wants me to try and start a punchout man service and franchise it,which puts a big smile on my face because I can't think of to many people on this planet who have the ability to turn around an already irate customer or know how to fix a hot water heater, install trim,patch sheetrock,adjust doors,paint,vent a M/Wave,etc.,etc.,etc....much less have the variety of tools necessary to do all these tasks and the rig to haul them around. If someone does have all these then he is already more than qualified to be out on his own and solving his own problems and not somebody elses.
Sorry I went on and on but you can see I'm coming to grips on how monumental this situation is going to be and whether I really want to get bogged down by it.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Okay, Andy, since you have nearly written the book for us this evening... do you want "in"? <G>
Yes a collaboration on a punchout & customer service book or manual sounds like an interesting project.
.Lets start with a motivational chapter on how to get the subs on the right track and how to demonstate that this is in their best interests.
Second chapter would be a detailed checkoff list and notification sheet for any problems encountered.
Third would be a solutions chapter covering every conceivable problem with an immediate solution and an after the fact solution. This might get out of control but it would make the book invaluable to a larger group of readers.
Fourth would be a guidelines for the general contractor and working foremans.This chapter may ty in better with the first chapter.
Fifth would be a comprehensive guideline for the design of an owners manual that would provide a sub list with names and numbers.An instruction manual on how to properly maintain your home.A detailed set of plans for the house and a photographic history and utility detail.
Sixth an appropriate discourse on how to improve customer relationships and how to handle disgruntled H.O.
OK thats my brain drain for the night feel free to fill in and improve.
By the way I am feeling much better now that I have gotten some of this stuff in my head down in writing.
THANKS ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Geob21,
I beleive we have talked before and we are located in the same county of Maryland. I could give some input but would not like some things mentioned out for the GP. Send me and e-mail if you want to talk about it. ([email protected])
PLP