Imagine the following story:
— story start —
So let’s say you hire a sheetrocker. He brings in the crew and they do the work and leave. You get there the next day, and find it’s not up to your specs. The homeowner sees it and complains to you also. Rather than bring back the original company (the homeowner says to forget those guys) you send in your all-trades guy that’s good but a bit slower to fix it up. With all his time and materials, you’re out $300.00, and a few hours of your time as well to pacify the homeowner and manage the fix-up work.
Now the sheetrocker sends his bill, say $2000.00. You say “uhh, pretty shoddy work, and I had to fix it up after you left a mess.” He says “I don’t know what you mean, that’s our normal work, and we deserve our money.”
You’d like to hold $500.00 for all the rework you had to pay for (plus your time). He wants all his money. Then he says that he’ll be glad to file a lien on the property if he doesn’t get the full amount due, and won’t sign a lien release until he gets paid.
Attempts at negotiation to a solution fail.
— end of story —
Is this realistic? Has anything like this ever happened to you? How did it finally get resolved?
The real world situation I’m dealing with is a tiny bit different, but I’ve never been in this situation before, and before I head out and spend hundreds on an attorney I’d like some background.
The sad part is that it seems like attorney fees could eat up any possible settlement pretty fast, esp. at $200.00 (or more) per hour.
Replies
The sub should have had the opportunity to correct the situation before you called someone else in even though the job was unacceptable. Pay him his full bill and eat the 300.00.
First of all lien laws vary a lot from state to state for detials about who, how, where, when.
In some, if he did not notify the HO that he might lien (not sure about when it is a sub, maybe it is your notification) then he can't lien.
How in all any one can put a construction lien on anything.
But all a lien does is to put on notice to anyone that might want to buy or lend money on the property is that is a disbuted bill and that the person issuine the lien MIGHT be next in line (after any other recorded liens) for any money.
But that does not mean that they are due any money.
The lien lapses after a limited period of time (3-6 months seems common). The sub-contractor needs to Perfect the lien. That requires them going to court and then convincing the judge that they are right vs you & the HO.
So a lien in a case like this is mostly a worthless gesture.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Homeowner has no right to tell the GC to use another sheetrocker. The GC has to give the sheetrocker a chance to fix what he did. If the GC asked the sheetrocker before the other one came in and the GC said no, then you can get someone.
Sheetrocker has right to lien the property and should.
Real world... the sub won't pursue a lien over $300. It would cost at least ten times that just to file, and when the judge hears you had to fix his work he'll get a tongue lashing.
I might have given the rocker a chance to fix it, might not, depends on the situation. You won't use them again, right? Live and learn.
And as far as $300 goes, if you're a GC you had better keep that kind of money around to eat. It happens. If you get twisted up every time $300 is at stake you will never get out of first gear.
I don't agree. I think the judge would rule that the original guy wasn't given an opportunity to inspect the alleged inferior work. I think he'd rule for the sub. I would.Pay the bill. Next time, call the sub back and ask him to fix it. I just had a homeowner try to tell me not to let my flooring guy back to do some repairs. She claimed he was incompetent. I stood up for him and told her I don't agree and she has no right to make that judgment on him . I said that his 20 something years of laying floors gives him more credibility than she had in deciding who's competent and who's not. I simply wouldn't let her make my decisions on who was going to do the repair. I also had to stand up to her husband who was creating mountains out of molehills. At one point he accused me of not listening and seeing it from his point of view. I cleared that up too by saying that I knew exactly what his point of view was and that I didn't agree and never would agree. I told him I am willing to fix it to his specificatioins and satisfy him but I still wouldn't agree that it is necessary and that it didn't meet warranty requirements. Homeowners might have the money but that doesn't mean they are always right. A good project manager stands up for his crew. The original poster's crew might not warrant standing up for but common business sense tells us that they had the right to correct their work before you start docking their pay. He should pay the full bill and learn the lesson now. It will be a cheap $300 lesson. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 7/17/2008 9:28 pm by Jim_Allen
Ok, all good feedback, thanks everyone.
Now lemme see if I can tell the REAL story.
My wife is an interior designer. She gets a call from a contractor who has some jobs going and needs a designer b/c his other one quit or got fired or something, dunno what or why. So she says fine, they meet and she's excited to get lots of work.
He uses her on 4 jobs, incluiding one that is a hand-me-down from the other designer all during April. We bill about 40 hrs, $4000, and get paid, in May. Fine. She works another hundred hours in May, we bill $4000 in June. Week or 2 goes by, I call, "where's our money?" Oh, he says, we have some big problems. So we (wife and I) meet with Him and his 2nd in command. They start reaming out the wife about this problem and that problem that they claim she caused due to inefficiency or incompetence. She can't get a word in edgewise, and I'm sitting there "in the middle" as it were. I know, however, that a good part of what they are saying is BS. The whole meeting escalates into a shouting match, him and her (mostly him) and finally I tell him "If you have problems with the bill, document it and send it to me." He agrees. "Try to have it in a week please" I telll him, and he says "Call me on Monday (this meeting is Friday at 4:30 PM)." OK, so the week goes by, and around Wed or so I send him a reminder. Nothing. Finally on Friday, I get an email at 4:30 PM "I need more time. Have it wednesday," Well, wednesday comes, and at 4:30 another email "I need even more time, busy moving offices".
So I'm thinking he's never gonna come up with it, and I send him the bill for June, and at the same time, send the clients (4 of them) "pre-lien" notices that let them know that subs CAN lien if they don't get paid, we haven't been paid, and to protect yourself, be sure to get a lien release or write a 2-party check. this is a form that comes from our Labor and Industries from the state.
Of course, he's furious that we did this. I got his attention.
Next thing, I get an email, cc: to every client, saying how we owe HIM money for all the time he's taken to fix the problems we created (no specifics) and he includes a PDF of HIS bill. Which includes about 30 hrs of time to "fix" the problems "we caused" and another $3000 for "materials and returns" that had been accumulated. His bill is $6100.00, a few hundred MORE than our $5500.00 bill.
Now, he has not yet turned over any documentation of how all these hours were spent, with whom, fixing what. And also, he refuses to acknowledge that many of the problems that DID occur happened because HE approved things that later turned out wrong, but he conveniently forgets that although the wife may have been involved to some degree, HE WAS THERE when orders were placed, etc.
Anyway... it's turned into a big he-said-she-said. We claim he owes us $5500. He says we owe him $6100. Clients in the middle.
I'm afraid getting lawyers involved would chew up $5500 or $6100 pretty fast.
And I have no idea how to proceed to try to resolve this. He's a pretty hard guy to talk to, and if you put him and the wife in the same room, better stand back and get behind a desk or you'll get dragged in. Both of them have their egos involved in this, and each is ready to fight to the death.
I'm convinced that the wife has most if not all of her money comig and that he's made up a lot of this just out of spite. It bugs the dickens out of me to just let it drop, but I'm having a hard time figuring a way out of the situation.
There.
now what'cha think?
For that amount of money go to small claims court. Probably $25-100 filing fee and a similar amount for service.Might want to visit an attorney for small consulting fee and see about filing 4 different SCC cases and naming for the GC and the HO.That will certainly get his attention.Might also be interesting to find the old designer and find out their story..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Now that's a different story. Don't know why you wasted our time with the fictional version, but my take on this new one is, file the lien and wait it out. If he decides to take you to court, you aren't gonna have much choice but to get a lawyer.
If the clients are happy with the work, maybe they can pay you, and deduct it from his final bill. I've had to do it that way a couple of times (about the same amount as your dispute), and both times the client paid me and worked it out with the general contractor - to avoid a lien on their property.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Take it to court. You'll lose some on legal fees but it will be an easy case. Either they did or didn't do the work as designed..... This isn't an issue of quality.
Next case.
Geoff,
You're comparing apples and oranges. The situation for the sheetrocker is a slam dunk for the sub. He was not notified of, or allowed to repair mistakes.
The situation you and your wife have is probably different. I believe your wife is engaging in professional services, which in many states the right to (mechanics) lien is not applicable.
You and this General are in a big fight, involving the clients. Drag the whole thing to court. You have your bills and scopes, have to general show how your mistakes cost him money. And have him convince the judge that those costs should be yours to bear. Not knowing the particulars of these errors, I would think that the contractor has a obligation to verify field dimensions, clearances, etc.
Could you tell us a little more of what and how the contractor bore the cost of "mistakes" by your wife?
ok, here's two actual situations. Admittedly, they could have been easily prevented by using POs or change orders and getting signatures.bathroom renovation. client wants expensive tub spout/fixture. only comes in chrome. designer, contractor, and husband discuss. Husband says we wanted brushed nickel. Designer says this one only comes in chrome, but all other fixtures should match, and also be chrome. husband says OK. contractor witnesses conversation. Designer orders fixtures. They arrive. The wife (who wasn't party to the conversation) now sees all the chrome and has a fit, "I wanted brushed nickel". She doesn't care if it all doesn't match. So there's a 25% restocking fee on all the chrome that has to go back.
Husband and contractor get amnesia about agreeing to put everything in chrome and blame designer.Or this one:they want a double soaking tub. The bathroom is kinda on the small side, and there are 2 double tubs available, large and smaller. the large one, if installed leaves 29" (or something like that) between the tub and the vanity. This seems too small to the designer. The smaller tub is advertised as a two person tub, has two "seats", and leaves more room between the tub and vanity. Designer discusses situation with rep at the plumbing supply, and orders the smaller tub.
When it arrives, the HO decides that it's too small. There were no actual samples to view at any time. But HO says "don't install that one". The tub is a $3500 tub with 25% restocking fee.
Contractor blames designer for "the screw up".And in both these cases, contractor is wanting to back-bill the desinger for both the restocking fees AND his time in "correcting the problems" and "smoothing things over with the clients".
Your last post is easy, where is the paperwork?
Yeah, that would have solved a lot of the problems before they started, or at least made the post-mortem a lot easier.
Change orders. Pick up at local supply store.
With no paperwork you are SOL... and having sent out notice of lien makes it worse for you.
Turn tail and run while you still can.
"The wife (who wasn't party to the conversation) now sees all the chrome and has a fit,"
welcome to designing and building ... for people.
what did the signed order verification form say?
2 days ago I told an upcoming customer if she was OK with chrome ... I could give her a very nice chrome bath faucet. Bought it about a year and a half ago.
meet with the customer and the plumber ... it's for an upstairs bath ...
we're standing in their downstairs powder room.
She says "I want it to match this" ...
plumber says ... Chrome?
she says ... Yes .. like this ... chrome.
so ... he writes down chrome, and buys chrome.
which ... is wrong ... because it's not porcelain.
I could started a big fight ... or simply eat $350.
almost 2 years later ... I'll break even.
and ... I'm far from a push over. But ... I dodn't get anything signed.
didn't think I'd have to ... as we were all standing in one very small space looking at one chrome faucet ... that she seemed to really like.
BUT ... my mistake. Didn't get a signature ... so my fault.
don't get me started on the number of times a freaking designer has screwed me and thrown me under the bus!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
without anything in writing it's going to be a mess to sort out. you could go to small claims court and if the judge believes you, you should be entitled to recover your costs. the lack of writing only kills you if your existing contract requires all change orders to be in writing. if your agreement says something like that, you're screwed.
now it sounds to me like the GC's bill is bogus and designed to scare you away from small claims court. however, there's always the risk that the judge rules against you and in small claims court you cannot usually appeal. so i think they are just playing poker with you.
you need to check under state law whether designers are allowed to file mechanics liens. also, at least in Idaho, the winning party in this kind of dispute gets attorneys fees. so if you file a lien, the HO files a quiet title to get rid of it and wins, you can have to pay his attorney fees and costs. the reverse is also true when the mechanic wins. THIS IS SPECIFIC TO IDAHO...MAY OR MAY NOT APPLY IN YOUR STATE.
$4000 is a lot bigger hit to swallow than a $350 faucet. for $350 I would walk, and call it the price of an education. for $4000 it's a tougher call. and your's alone. personally if i were the judge and only heard your side of the story, i would rule in your favor. but the judge will hear both sides and you don't know and can't know until trial what kind of lies the other side might tell. and you are guaranteed even if you win to spend a lot of time and energy that you could otherwise spend doing something productive or fun. now the other side has the same issues so litigation is a lot like poker. before you gamble take a close look at your expected return and don't put good time and money into this mess if you're not likely to get a reward.
ok... i give up...
what does this mean ?????
<<<<
She says "I want it to match this" ...
plumber says ... Chrome?
she says ... Yes .. like this ... chrome.
so ... he writes down chrome, and buys chrome.
which ... is wrong ... because it's not porcelain. >>>>>>>>
was she pointing at a porcelain fixture and he said "chrome"
and she didn't know the difference ????
i guess ya hadda be there.......
wait... you were .....
so ??????
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
No ... she was pointing at a chrome faucet.
Like I told my plumber at the time ...
U stupit ahole!
She pointed at chrome ... I said chrome ... you wrote chrome ...
then U actually installed chrome!
WTF were U thinking?
he's a good guy ... didn't want the kids going without a Dad while I was away for man .. uh... woman-slaughter ... he offered to "fix it" for free.
I ate the materials cost ... he ate the reinstall labor ...
and she got her porcelain faucet.
But ... at least me and him got out and never had to work with her again!
I even paid my painter to go in and punchlist for me ...
really ... really ... didn't wanna be in that house again.
wife of a good friend of mine too!
ask BigDanT at the fest about my chrome faucet ... I gave him daily updates at the time.
damn plumber ... what the hell was he thinkin?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
She pointed at chrome ... I said chrome ... you wrote chrome ...then U actually installed chrome! WTF were U thinking?
Like my wife says, Doesn't matter what I said, you should have listened to what I meant!View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
and ... better part.
she was all upset ... that the chrome faucet ... didn't match the one downstairs.
the ... chrome one.
I know ... just follow along.
so .. the fix to that not matching problem ...
was to install a porcelain faucet!
which ... uh ... certainly didn't match the chrome faucet downstairs.
But ... somehow it matched ... in her eyes.
best part ... this was one of 2 baths.
back to back baths.
remember ... upstairs.
so ... bath A ... had to match the bath downstairs ...
but with porcelain, not chrome.
bath B ...
she picked out a completely different faucet!
oil rubbed bronze finish!
that ... was pretty m uch what sent me over the edge.
OK ... gotta match downstairs ... cause if we didn't ...
up and down wouldn't match.
so ... we'll "match" the chrome ... with porcelain.
then on the other side of the wall ... door jambs side to side ...
both doors off the main hallway ...
we'll use ORB!
U know ... 'cause we gotta match downstairs!
now that I'm thinking about all this ... thinking I'll start looking fer my bullets!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
I am not kidding that is totally priceless.
It's so good I'm not even a little depressed any more about our situation.
ORB,, chrome, porcelain...
I feel you pain, bro..
and even more ...
they sold the house last month.
moving to Cali ... San Fran ... "to live in a shoebox" ... as my friend put it.
anyways ... he called to say Thanks Again ...
U know ... for all the hard work ... and ... uh ... working with his wife.
Said 10 outta 10 people who walked thru said the 2 baths were beautiful ...
and even their real estate agent said getting those 2 baths done would really help sell the house in the down market.
felt like calling the wife and and yelling ... "So There!"
and hang up.
she'd have no clue ... but I'da felt better.
started off as a nice, but base model job ... for the upcoming sale.
everything white, chrome ... and off the shelf at HD.
that lasted about 5 minutes after we signed the contract.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'm really lost... what is a porcelain faucet?
handles.
and nope ... couldn't just order porcelain tips ...
that'd be too easy.
gets better.
my plumber said he'd "match" the existing ... but he preferred Moen.
so ... we first installed the Moen.
when the whole chrome problem flared up ... she insisted I track down and use the exact same faucet ... uh ... except for the porcelain handles.
I found it ... on the shelf ... at HD.
$120.
replaced a $350 faucet ... priced at his discount thru the plumbing supply ....
with a $120 model off the shelf at HD.
and she was much happier ... because the quality of the seond one was obviously much better!
toss that crappy Moen and put in some nice american standard HD specials!
when I asked my plumber why he didn't ue the HD special in the first place ...
he did have a good excuse ... his van doesn't enter HD parking lots!
so ... the customer on an upcoming basic bath remodel ... where I would have spec'd something off the shelf from HD ... will get a really nice Moen faucet!
and she don't care if it's chrome ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Had a client a while back who wanted a brushed chrome kitchen faucet. No problem.
Wanted everything to match.
No problem.
Insinkerator doesn't make a brushed chrome drain basket ring. Problem.
Client wants and Insinkerator unit, mom had one and loved it.
My guy calls me and asks what to do. I say I will be there in a minute.
I take the chrome ring and drive around the block. Stop half way. Get out my scotch bright pad. Chrome to brushed chrome in 5 minutes.
I re-appear. "Whew, last one they had but I got it!" She was thrilled.
DanT
sure ...
make with the hero talk now ...
but where were U when I needed U?
seems all I remember hearing from the other end of the line was laughing!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
It's called hormones. Maybe we should start taking a daily dose eh? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
geoff.... i wear the designer hat in our company and i recognize a fatal flaw in both of your scenarios....
<<<<
bathroom renovation. client wants expensive tub spout/fixture. only comes in chrome. designer, contractor, and husband discuss. Husband says we wanted brushed nickel. Designer says this one only comes in chrome, but all other fixtures should match, and also be chrome. husband says OK. contractor witnesses conversation. Designer orders fixtures. They arrive. The wife (who wasn't party to the conversation) now sees all the chrome and has a fit, "I wanted brushed nickel". She doesn't care if it all doesn't match. So there's a 25% restocking fee on all the chrome that has to go back.Husband and contractor get amnesia about agreeing to put everything in chrome and blame designer.
Or this one:
they want a double soaking tub. The bathroom is kinda on the small side, and there are 2 double tubs available, large and smaller. the large one, if installed leaves 29" (or something like that) between the tub and the vanity. This seems too small to the designer. The smaller tub is advertised as a two person tub, has two "seats", and leaves more room between the tub and vanity. Designer discusses situation with rep at the plumbing supply, and orders the smaller tub.When it arrives, the HO decides that it's too small. There were no actual samples to view at any time. But HO says "don't install that one". The tub is a $3500 tub with 25% restocking fee.Contractor blames designer for "the screw up".>>>
in the first one....... this is a slam dunk..... i would never have had a conversation with the husband without the wife.. i want the decision maker, the wife in this conversation and then i want a signed confirmation.... my lumber company requires a signed confirmation on all special orders.. why don't you ?
in the second one the designer and the plumbing rep made the decision which was something the designer and the owners should have made ... and the decsion should have been reduced to writing
hindsite is 20/20... but future business practise should be changed to reflect these lessons learnedMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thank you Mike Smith. My sentiments exactly. Why isn't the designer wife posting this question? What position does her husband hold in the company?
methinks she already knows what we are telling hubby, and he had to find out for himself!
CCO Contract Change Order
AWA Addittional Work Authorization
CCO is for scope of work or design changes that do not involve (+-) money.
AWA is for any changes that result in and upcharge or a refund and often are the result of selection changes.
We don't execute ANY changes at all untill we get a signed document with a check, even if it delays the job as the document states that it may.[email protected]
Hire an attorney.
Not to take this to court, since that will cost everybody, except the lawyers.
Hire an attorney to negotiate a settlement. You are hiring the lawyer for their legal expertise and for their detachment from the situation. You are hiring a good poker player. Forget about this and move on to paying work.
>>I think the judge would rule that the original guy wasn't given an opportunity to inspect the alleged inferior work.
Maybe, but I would go in with photos of the funky work and a statement from the guy who did the repairs. I would argue that as the GC I need to proceed in the most efficient way to complete the project, and as the first sub botched the job they lost my confidence and I decided to get someone else--a known quantity--to get things back on track. This is, after all, my client's property and I have a responsibility to produce quality work in an efficient manner. Screwing around with someone who blew it the first time doesn't get it done.
as the GC I need to proceed in the most efficient way to complete the project, and as the first sub botched the job they lost my confidence and I decided to get someone else--a known quantity--to get things back on track. This is, after all, my client's property and I have a responsibility to produce quality work in an efficient manner. Screwing around with someone who blew it the first time doesn't get it done.
You could take that route. If you pay the original subcontractor for his work as bid, then pay for the fix out of pocket. Your bid will no doubt be high enough to cover this stuff - after all, your no-nonsense approach is probably why people pay significantly more for your work, so that gives you the option to handle it that way if you choose to do so.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I agree Huck. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"I would argue that as the GC I need to proceed in the most efficient way to complete the project, and as the first sub botched the job they lost my confidence"If I was the judge I'd ask you if you even worked with the subcontractor before or checked his references if it was the first time. Then, I'd ask you if you gave the sub a chance to inspect the work and make any necessary repairs. I'd ask for the documentation that the sub had finished and was refusing to do the repairs and get his explanation.My ruling would be a slam dunk against you and all your pictures and talk wouldn't amount to one iota of worth in my decision. If you didn't call the sub in and let him inspect and fix his work, you lose. Pay up. You don't get to be judge, jury and executioner with someone eleses money. If I, as a judge, allow that, I'd have to allow it everytime. Then, there would be many cases where the homeowners weren't satisfied because they had unreasonable standards. They would simply lock the contractor out of the house and claim he was incompetent and every contractor, even you, would go bankrupt.Think about that. How would you like it if a homeowner simply locked you out and claimed you were incompetent....before you were finished with the job? I've had homeowners walking around with levels when we were standing up partitions telling us they weren't plumb. "Duh!!!!!! We haven't plumbed them yet! Get the xxxx off the job before one of those partitions and my hammer hits you on the head!" Should I have been thrown off the job and not paid because my parttions weren't plumb? How would the judge rule in that case? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Your scenario is certainly possible, maybe even likely. I suppose it would depend a lot of whether I had worked on the judge's mother's house, or whether the judge played golf with the sub's dad.
And that's why they have appeals courts. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
For $500 bucks he can make your life miserable... all over your not even giving him the chance to make you happy.
I'd file a lien against you just for general purpose and take great delight in delaying the process in every way I could, hoping the potential that your loan agreement will expire... which would hopefully make you realize a simple phone call could have saved you thousands of dollars and untold wasted hours.
In todays market of ever changing lending rules it is very possible to be neck deep in a loan that if the terms expire you no longer qualify for a new loan.... Not a pretty position.
You have to give a man a chance to fix his work. If he's so bad that you don't want to let him back on the job site, then the damage has already been done and you screwed up by hiring him in the first place.
Believe me, I know the frustration a sub can cause by not performing as you had hoped he would, but you also have to consider his point of view. How would you have felt if your customer, the HO, saw the work and decided that it was below par. So over the weekend, before you had a chance to see it and deal with it, they called in a handyman who charged them $300 and they wanted to reduce YOUR payment by $500. Would that make for a good situation?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
sub has the right to go in and fix.
real world ... I had a drywaller screw me in a similar situation.
worked with the guy in the past ... he picked my job to start his downward spiral.
he stocked, hung and taped.
I was heading out of town on vacation ... he had the first coat of mud on.
looked good ... like all his other work.
he was to wrap things up the Fri I was heading out of town ...
I paid in full before I left.
Got back ... looked like sh!t.
I called ... he made excuses.
then promises to fix ... and never showed.
I called in another crew ... cost me $800 to fix.
I simply wrote it off as a cost of doing this type of business.
it was my choice to not wait forever to have him come in and most likely not fix anything.
$800 .... 5 yrs later and haven't given him a second thot.
also told everyone I knew ... that knew him.
coupla months later one bud got stuck ... couldn't find anyone else ...
and called him.
he showed up, late, for the first walk thru smelling like beer at 10am
if I hadn't put the word out ... my bud said he'da figured it a one time deal and went with him ... based on previous work together.
But ... let him measure then never returned his calls.
cycle of life.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Haven't read through all the responses, but I'll agree with the first one - you have to give a contractor the opportunity to correct his own work before you hire someone else to do it. Since you didn't do that, he is due his full contract amount.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
It sounds like there was a "failure to communicate" between you and the sub. If his "normal work" didn't meet your specifications, I gotta ask if (and how) you communicated those specs.
In any case, he should have been allowed to address the problems before someone else was brought in.
The best GC I worked for had GREAT subs. He didn't just stumble on to them and I'm sure they needed training to get it up to his standards. He had very high standards.
But he gave them steady work and paid them well.
My point is that alot of GCs think subs come in some neat little package all ready to do good work.
If you find ones that do decent work and have a good attitude work WITH them.
You can always tweak their work but their attitude is whats important.
Here, such a situation would have at least two other 'fronts' of action.
First, the contractors' board can act ... ultimately, with a possible back-charge of the sub, taken from his bond, if necessary.
The other is your implied ability to direct or withhold future work from him.
In either example, you have a major duty to minimize the loss, and to notify him of any problems, giving him every opportunity to answer the complaints. You likely are NOT allowed to 'charge for your time;' you can only charge back what your actual expenses are .... keeping in mind your duty to minimize the loss.
Let's assume that the guy does file a lien. You can be sure that the customer will in turn sue you - after all, YOU'RE the guy who brought the sub into the job. As GC, it's your duty to see that the job gets done, etc. You're also required to pay the subs BEFORE you pay yourself.
Bad work? Did you document it? Take pictures, show the guy, give him a chance to fix it? Or was he left in the dark until the short check arrived?
Cutting through the ego issues .... sometimes you just have to take the hit and keep on going ... you have more important fish to fry - like getting the job done, and keeping the customer happy.
That's where option #2 comes into play. You don't need to hire him again. Perhaps it won't come to that - it's always possible that one of his guys dropped the ball. I mean. we all have bad days.
you needed to call the original guy back to at least try to fix his work before you tried to short him on his money.