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Subs making mistakes

Oak River Mike | Posted in Business on March 24, 2009 01:24am

I have posted on the before and maybe I am just too picky but…How did you get subs to pay better attention???

Found the trim sub had used too long of a nail on some baseboard and nailed two sets of pocket doors closed today!  I have done something like that myself years ago but I specifically made a note on the wall about it and even asked him to be careful as the doors are all painted and finished.  Well, he doesn’t go to the job and just sends one of his guys and WHAM!  Nailed shut!

He will make it right but its just the headache of it all and of course the homeowner saw it right when I did.  Typical Monday

I know these are all parts of the business but I sure do get upset with errors that seem to be easily avoided.

 

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Replies

  1. frammer52 | Mar 24, 2009 02:03am | #1

    Ys sometimes have to go wid the flow, specially on mondays.

  2. geoffhazel | Mar 24, 2009 02:15am | #2

    Mike, I hear ya.

    Sounds like dealin' with teenagers. What you say <> what they hear, much less what they do.

    Repeat yourself to the point of insanity, and still.... nothin'.

    Guess all we can do is to be patient, firm, and keep rephrasing the message one way or another in the hopes of someday getting through.



    Edited 3/23/2009 7:16 pm ET by geoffhazel

  3. gfretwell | Mar 24, 2009 02:17am | #3

    My wife (builder) says it is worse if it doesn't completely stop the door. Just enough to put a couple gouges in it ;)

    She says it is amazing how many times someone will pull it out and push it in, trying to find the bind, before they look down.

  4. john7g | Mar 24, 2009 02:44am | #4

    Shot the same pocket door 3 times on one job one day.  After the time I spent fixing and hiding the scratches it might've been cheaper to just bought a new one.  Don't know if it was a Monday but it certainly felt like one. 

  5. User avater
    EricPaulson | Mar 24, 2009 02:44am | #5

    I know you put the note on the wall................let me be the devil here.

    You could have spoken to the sub or sent him a fax to sign off on staeing your concerns= 5 minutes.

    Or you could have met the workers on the job to go over this specifically.

    As PM I know I would have.

    Find a new sub. They should have known better.

    And I always make sure the doors are closed when doing base etc.

     

  6. Pelipeth | Mar 24, 2009 02:46am | #6

    On one particular bathroom project, (the room didn't exist) I went through 3 plumbers BEFORE we started. I #### canned one of them for being late and NOT calling me. My time is just as valuable as theirs. Had we gone on I know my life would have been hell.

  7. dovetail97128 | Mar 24, 2009 02:51am | #7

    Had that happen once to 2 sets of 7' x 3' Oak double pocket doors.
    One set nailed shut, owner jerked it open that evening, the other was closed when the base was nailed up so the carp proceeded to force it open to move into the next room.
    Ahh the joys..

    But on the bright side .. here on my job I just caught my plumber having drilled, plumbed and the electrician wired a bearing ( storage area,100 lb./ft load)wall.
    2 x 4 wall , 2 3/4" hole saw, six consecutive studs wasted down to within 1/4" of meat left.
    Good news was I had room to build a new wall right next to the one drilled and still get support for the 14' joists.

    They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
    1. User avater
      Sphere | Mar 24, 2009 03:14am | #9

      Back when I was ft furniture, I made a rolltop oak desk for a big plumbing contractor in NYC. I drove it up and set him up.

      A month later he calls and asks if hr can buy new roll slats and install them himself.

      I told him he could get new slats, but my warraty is in effect..wassup?

      He sheepishly said he had a desk lamp he lked, and didn't want the cord hanging over the edge, so he drilled a hole in the back,,a 3" hole, dead center.

      Then he ran his cord...then he closed the roll top with the lamp inside. And saw the 3" hole right smackdab in the middle of the roll slat top.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I had to go up and take it apart to intall a new roll,,,but he paid.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

      Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

       

      They kill Prophets, for Profits.

       

       

      1. frammer52 | Mar 24, 2009 03:56am | #10

        That is a good one!

  8. davidmeiland | Mar 24, 2009 02:58am | #8

    >>he doesn't go to the job and just sends one of his guys

    That right there is a problem. I try not to use subs like that, and many of mine are owner/operator types that may bring a helper but often work alone or have journeyman employees. I do have some subs that "send their guys" to do the job, but in those cases I am all over them until I see that either (a) they are well able to handle the work to my standards, or (b) they are not and I have sent them back. It's just that simple, I cannot have people on the job nailing doors shut or anything else.

  9. User avater
    JeffBuck | Mar 24, 2009 04:02am | #11

    I was all prepared to say "hire better subs" ... till I read the whole post.

    is that all that happened?

     

    or was that the least of the infractions?

    myself included ... I couldn't name one carpenter I know personally who hasn't nailed at least one pocket door shut ... and usually right after marking the wall themselves.

    me ... worst violation ... I made the notations, swapped to shorter nails and went to lunch. Got back from lunch ... decided to trim something else first ... swapped back to long nails ... then ... Oh yeah, I was gonna nail off the base by the pocket door ...

    Thunk! Plus ... didn't notice it till I opened it ... and scratched the hell outta it.

     

    Luckily the painter was close ... we did a test patch of stain ... and I matched that color with a wax fill pencil ... then he stained ontop of my wax. Other way around it would have been a nice dark line. Lead carp on site said try that first before he had to hide buying a new door in his budget. All worked out well in the end.

    best case is nailed tight, won't move till ya pull the nails back out ... on a paint grade door.

    I've also noticed pocket doors are rarely nailed shut unless the home owner IS home.

    Jeff

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

    1. FastEddie | Mar 24, 2009 04:46am | #13

      I have never nailed a pocket door.  But I have managed to hit more than one copper water line, including one in a closet full of shoes, and one in a house with new wool carpet.  man did that smell bad for a couple of weeks."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

      "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

      1. mike_maines | Mar 24, 2009 01:00pm | #15

        A plumber once told me, after fixing my mistake:  "carpenters should not attach their wood directly to the copper pipes."

         

        1. Piffin | Mar 24, 2009 02:41pm | #17

          good one.One of the strangest goobers like this I've have was this.There was a water supply in the wall running horizontally a little above the top plate. I think it was a supply to a toilet on the other side.A specialty trim/cabinet guy brought his custom cabs in to install and there was baseboard on that wall. I would have taken the whol elength off and then cut and reset it after the cabs, or figured the cut location and used my Bosch fine cut. In the old days, I used a chisle and handsaw.But this guy got out his jigsaw and sliced deep. I think he knew he'd hit the pipe, because it was only a third of the way thru that 1/2" line. He never said anything to me and just went on about his work. That water was mostly draining away to the crawlspace for about three weeks until the HO called me to say the flooring was swelling and to complain that the plumber had done him wrong.I was confused, knowing that the plumber had not worked in that area at all.
          I opened the wall from the other side and had it all fixed up in a day. The wood floor dried and shrunk back to look fine.That sub never got any work from me again. 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. Bowz | Mar 24, 2009 04:29pm | #18

            Speaking of strange;

            I had a kitchen install to do on a 27 year old house. after pulling out the old cabinets, I pulled the baseboard off from the stove area. As it came loose, a stream of water shot out, so I pounded the nail back into the hole. Shut the water off to the house and then opened up the wall.

            Trim guy had hit a water pipe that was tight in the stud. Apparently every time the stud dried a little, the pipe leaked and swelled the wood around the hole. Customer said every now and then they had a little water in the bath below and could never figure out where it had come from.

            As far as pocket doors, the worst one I heard about was the electrical apprentice who cut in a box into a 6-panel oak door that was back in the pocket.

            Bowz

          2. mike_maines | Mar 24, 2009 05:56pm | #19

            As far as pocket doors, the worst one I heard about was the electrical apprentice who cut in a box into a 6-panel oak door that was back in the pocket.

            Ouch!

          3. andy_engel | Mar 24, 2009 09:05pm | #20

            Piffin, I once went to cut out the baseboard for the electrician to put in an outlet box. Nice, new blade on the jigsaw. I sliced out a chunk of PVC plumbing vent the size of an electrical box and never knew it until I pulled the cutout from the base molding. That was one annoyed plumber. He might have taught me some new word combinations. Stuff happens. It's the frequency of stuff happening you wanna watch for.Andy

            "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)

            "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

            "Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Once and Future King

          4. Piffin | Mar 24, 2009 11:34pm | #23

            well, of course *I* have never done such a thing!;)But I do admit to be a member of the pocket door fraternity 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

    2. MikeSmith | Mar 24, 2009 05:30am | #14

      we nailed so many.... i started making pocket walls fatter...
      solved that problemMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

  10. RobWes | Mar 24, 2009 04:35am | #12

    He didn't break no cherry.

     

    It happens.

  11. runnerguy | Mar 24, 2009 02:14pm | #16

    Good question.

    Last spring built a detached garage. Momolithic pour so the whole slab sloped a few inches from back to front.

    Met the hardiplank siding guy at 7AM the morning the siding was to start and specifically pointed out that the slab was sloped so DON'T use that as a horizontal reference line. The first piece of siding will have to be tapered so the top of the first piece is level.

    I think you all know what's coming here.

    Come back at 3:30 and a whole side of the garage is done in sloping siding. And what really made me scratch my head was when they got to a coupla windows on the second floor (the really first level reference point) they just kept going despite the siding at the sills clearing one window sill and then having to be notched 2" for the other window sill.

    Wasn't any problem getting it fixed and the siding guy was genuinely embarrassed as the rest of his work was perfect but who's listening here?

    Runnerguy

    1. gfretwell | Mar 24, 2009 11:04pm | #21

      My wife' company had one house plan with a very confusing truss layout. They got 2 swapped and ended up with a member sticking out the wall into the room. The rockers covered it, the trim guy put crown around it and it was painted when she caught it in the QI.

  12. DanH | Mar 24, 2009 11:13pm | #22

    In the plant where I used to work there were some contractors setting up some new conference rooms. In one room they were assembling conference tables -- fairly nice laminate tables with metal leg assemblies -- probably cost $2-3K a throw.

    They put one table together then put a second table top upside down on the first to assemble it. Used the wrong screws in the wrong spots, didn't discover this until they lifted the second table off the first and a screw brought about a 3" chunk of the first table top with it. Both tables ruined.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
  13. jimAKAblue | Mar 25, 2009 08:22pm | #24

    Do you think it's time for the pocket door manufacturers to start inserting a nail protection piece of steel along the bottom rail on the inside of the pocket?

  14. Ken | Mar 26, 2009 01:30am | #25

    Own a house with 2x4 framed wall, they put paneling on the inside and wood siding on the outside. Had a 4 inch drain pipe running vertically in the wall.

    Siding guys nailed through the siding into the drain pipe. Nails held a few years before rusting -- then the leaks started.

  15. reinvent | Mar 26, 2009 02:12am | #26

    Here is another sub that made a mistake.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29790709/

    1. GregGibson | Mar 26, 2009 02:21am | #27

      Ha ! You crack me up ! ! !Greg

    2. Oak River Mike | Mar 26, 2009 02:34am | #28

      That sub mistake definitely cost more than my pocket door nialed shut!  :)

      1. KFC | Mar 26, 2009 03:56am | #29

        One time I had to replace a pocket door after the drywall guys used extra long screws, nice deep gouges.  Never did find out why they used those screws.

        It was in the maid's quarters of a house on Russian Hill in SF owned by the lady who wrote "legally blonde".  In order to get the door out, I had to remove (and save) the crown which was built up out of (and I sh!t you not) 13 different profiles.  In the maid's quarters.

        Took a little longer than I guessed over the phone...

        k

    3. User avater
      Ted W. | Mar 26, 2009 04:29am | #30

      LOL! It'll take a lot of wood filler to patch that one!~ Ted W ~

      Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com

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