such a thing as standard size windows?
JohnWalker
| Posted in General Discussion on
Hi
I am in the very early stages of planning a new home and wanted to be smart and use standard size windows to save money and lead time. The big box store told me they were all custom ordered (even though they had some 2’x3′ etc windows on the shelf).
I went to the window manufacturer’s design centre (happened to be very close by) and the nice guy in there told me the same thing. He handed me a brochure which showed standard size window increments and when I asked him again he said those were just for pricing. Meaning you order your custom size and we charge you for the next size larger.
So my question is does this make sense for vinyl windows?
Thanks
John
Replies
Absolutely true in my experience. Every window is a custom sized window, so pick your sizes based on other factors.
j
As far as I know pricing for windows has been based on increments. I think at the factory where they make them they can just whip together a window in the same amount of time whether it is 1'x1' or 4'x4'. It is just a matter of materials.
Yes and no
it would help to know which big box and which maker you are referring to and whether you are stating with wood windows and then tagging on the line about thinking of changing to vinyl or if you are shopping for vinyl from the git go.
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Depends on the mfg of the window. Pick a window mfg and then ask your question.
"Standard" windows made by Andersen, Marvin, pella, Kolbe and Kolbe (to name a few) come in set sizes but very few are common to all makers. This is a bonus when replacing old windows because you can find one that almost fits or very close to it. These companies have started making custom sizes but the upcharge is high.
All vinyl windows started as replacements and the industry set itself up with being able to make any size at anytime. This means no standard size. You will find some stock sizes because they are common in that city the company is based.
The window manufacturers talk about two markets for product, "prime" and "replacement."
Each is quite different from the other.
For new construction, most windows come from those makers doing windows for the "prime" market, with names like Andersen, Pella, Jeld-Wen, and Marvin. Those windows are made with wood, fiberglass, other composites, and may have exterior parts clad in aluminum or vinyl.
While many of those prime window makers will make a window to any custom size, the great majority of their work is in windows at "standard" sizes, and all publish charts giving those sizes.
The replacement window market is a different thing entirely. While window makers for the prime market have large centrally located plants, mostly in the upper midwest, the replacement window makers have plants all around the country, situated mostly in the large metropolitan areas where the majority of their business is located. Those window products have their frames and sashes made mostly from aluminum and vinyl extrusions.
Replacement windows are made to any size required by jobsite measurements.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Replacement windows are made to any size required by jobsite measurements.
They can be, that's for sure, but in California at least, standard sizes are much less.
Actually, I only know that for a fact with tilt-pacs, now that I think about it... lemme think about whole windows for a sec before I say much more...
k
They do make windows in "commodity" sizes which are common among some manufacturers.
John
I went to Home Depot and bought windows right off the shelf and then cut opening for that size when I built my new home. (one of the advantages of building with SIP's or ICF's)
IT was much cheaper than any other approach I looked into.. Plus I didn't need to wait or have a lead time. I've shown the prices I paid to most contractors including some really high volume buyers (apartment building complexes) they were as cheap or cheaper than they were paying.. and When I was ready Home Depot had them in stock..
I standardized on 2 sizes and most of my 97 windows are one of those 2 sizes.. However the local stores had a really big inventory and I could have had 97 differant sizes if I wanted..
Please tell me that you are speaking of vinyl clad and not solid vinyl.
john..... window mfr's have hundreds of sizes and many different lines of modelsBUT... only the more popular , high demand , sizes and models are kept in stock , in the distribution chainso.. a factory order window might take 4 - 6 weeks... but stock sizes and specifications are available from the DISTRIBUTOR in 2 -3 daysthe pricing CAN be better on STOCK sizes than factory order sizes.... and of course the lines that do not offer custom sizing are USUALLY less than the lines offering custom sizingalso.... many mfrs offer certain lines at the big box stores and protect their dealer stores by not offering all products and models Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thank you for all your responses.
To clarify (I didn't think naming companies was permitted but it appears many others have) I am referring to Jeld-wen solid vinyl windows and Home Depot.
Our local HD has a few windows in stock. They are mostly horizontal sliders and some have busted flanges. Selection is poor and you would need to cherry pick each unit.
Being in a rainforest (Vancouver) I am wary of wood windows (clad or otherwise). The maintenance would be too high or they might just rot out behind the cladding. New construction here is 99% vinyl windows. I suspect the other 1% is home owners insisting on high end wood windows, unaware of the maintenance issues. (I spent many a summer climbing ladders to paint wood windows, no thanks.)
John
If you go to the Jeld-wen website, you can download a pdf files for their different lines of windows, that list the standard sizes. Personally, I would optimize the framing, to minimize offstep stud spacing, and then order windows to fit the framing. There has been at least one good article in Fine Home Building, on how to do energy and material efficient framing, "The Future of Framing Is Here", by Joseph Lstiburek.
That has always seemed insane to me.you save maybe twenty studs in a house but lock yourself into windows most likely less appropriate for humans and enjoyment of vies for a lifetime. Windows should be sized to the design, the interior layouts, the exterior elevations, and sightlines. Then let the framer find the most efficient way to work around what the design requires.This kind of thinking reminds me of the poor places built in the seventies when the first 'energy crisis' and the bad economy was dictating a lot of cost savings and we designed and built junk that we are ashamed of now. Stuff that firs better in russian gulags.
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Piffin I sure agree with your sentiment..
(even though the vast majority of my 97 windows are one of 2 sizes)
That's one of the real beauty's of ICF & SIP construction.. put up the wall then cut the openings for windows..
Please don't tell me that preplanning will optimise ideal placement of windows..
I lived in my house over 15 years before I started construction on it's replacement.. I thought I knew where every sight line possible was yet I found three vista's I'd never considered during contruction. They were only revieled standing on the deck looking around.
Without framing to remove there was no cost involved in selecting one spot over another or simply adding another window.. It's nice that windows can be almost an afterthought..
I'm not talking about cheap, or ugly. I just think you need to design the whole structure as an integrated system of subsystems. Far too many of the designs I see are just poorly thought out, and waste space, materials, and energy. What idiot would design a 12-4 X 13-0 room, and then spec carpet, (which comes 12-0 wide), for it? Why would anyone ever spec windows at 39, or 43-inches wide?I agree, the efficiency of the structure should not be the only thing driving a design, (if it did the world would be covered with concrete rectangles made in 4-ft units), but it needs to be a major portion of the design from the beginning. That is how less expensive, efficient structures come to be. All I am advocating is that, if you make a decision that moves away from an efficient design, have a real reason to do so. Far too many buildings are designed where the efficiency of the structure and the subsystems isn't even thought of.
Yes integrate with full information and understanding, but your first post made it sound like you advocated choosing window size base primarily on stud layout which is probably the lowest thing on the list of important variables, one that can easily be thrown a way.BTW I use quite a few windows that have an RO just a hair under 39 wide. they are good proportion and are a size good for egress standards. Not sure why you'd have a problem with that. On a taller wall I would be using a taller window and might go to 43
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Richard Estes AIA of Newport, RI, wrote an article about a great-looking house, in one of the FH annual Houses issues, just a couple years ago.
Built within a stone's throw of Mike Smith's house, in Jamestown, the windows in the house were all sized to be modular to the 24 o.c. framing.
Two things struck me as cool about the house. Heavy roughsawn clapboards got mitered at corners, and an up-in-midair stair landing without post support, the cantilevered support picking up a steel-splined stringer.
And the windows all looked pretty good.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
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i know Jim Estes..... never met Richthey started out in the '70's as Burgin & Estes... quite successfulbut now they are each in a separate companyprobably ... Estes & Twombly nowMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
world is getting smaller and smaller. That name rings a bell. I think I may have bid on an addition drawn by twombly up here about ten years ago
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i think his name is Peter Twombly... my impression is he's a nice guy and good architectMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ahhh, Mike! It is James, not Dick. I believe Richard is the Twombly half.
I built a copy (from a fully licensed planset) of his "Pond House," right here in Lake Placid. The original is on a pond on your island, and clearly visible from Google Earth.
The best things about it were the mudroom details, and staircase railings and upstairs balustrade. Router work with patterns. Cool.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Edited 3/17/2009 12:54 pm ET by Gene_Davis
Twombly half is Peter....
http://www.remodelista.com/2008/07/10/architect-visit-estes-twombly/
you gotta get over this dick thing
I've never heard Jim Estes ever referred to as James
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/17/2009 1:29 pm ET by MikeSmith
Peter, yes. very nice gentleman
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Dick, Peter, Dong, whatever . . . ever since I bought Chief I have gotten more forgetful of architect's names.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
you'd really like the stuff in X2
and the training video's with SSA are greatMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Try to find the new Pella fiberglass line, Impervia. Competitively priced with vinyl, stronger, and will last much, much longer. By competitively, I should clarify that a quote for 36 windows was about $5,200 US for vinyla nad $6,700 US Impervia, just over a year ago. Price has likely come down some. They now make some casements as well : )
HTH."It depends on the situation..."
That is a very good tip and I will look into the local pricing.
(http://www.jeld-wen.ca doesn't give "standard sizes" for British Columbia. Their product line varies from province to province.)
John
What do you plan to use for "window treatments" Cellular blinds, drapes? Those custom made cost more than the window. I suggest reverse engineering it. If you use inside treatments ,custom seems to cost quite a bit more than stock. I doubt the contractors here figure the finished I.D. on a window opening is worth much but you will find it costs more in the long run. Just my observation in having finish to suit my wife.
Funny you should mention that. I noticed the same thing on the reno I did years ago. Argon, low-E custom size replacement windows were cheaper than the fancy pleated blinds (the kind that go up from the bottom if you know what I mean).
Actually planning on obsured glass for windows that have privacy issues. There, done.
Thanks
John
I have this thing against Jeld-Wen vinyl windows.
If using 5/4 exterior window trim, it is very difficult to get a good caulk bead between the trim and the window as there is a funky groove detail in the vinyl. The distance between the window flange and outside corner is about 1"--the same as the 5/4 trim leaving no room for caulking.
Maybe someone here has a way to deal with this, but I here in the NW I prefer Milgard or Certainteed vinyl windows. Both of these have about 1-1/4" surface to caulk the trim to.
I hope this makes sense.
>> What do you plan to use for "window treatments" Cellular blinds, drapes? Those custom made cost more than the window. I suggest reverse engineering it. If you use inside treatments ,custom seems to cost quite a bit more than stock. I doubt the contractors here figure the finished I.D. on a window opening is worth much but you will find it costs more in the long run. Just my observation in having finish to suit my wife. <<
Blinds over 6' tall are not stock at the big box - With windows that tall you move into custom. according to one of my customers... Yes I 'heard' about it. The windows in question were actually 6'2' and the 6' tall blinds just barely worked. Regarding window treatments, (curtains) yes one can definitely spend more on them than the windows. In my own house we have fairly pricey K&K windows - low E, etc. DW had at least a few curtains done that were 2x the cost of the window. Gag!$ - Really don't think the window size had much to do with the price though. Plus she covered up all the trim...
I'm not saying windows should be sized for window treatments, but am saying that it is another thing to be aware of.
What Mike Smith said. They're simply called STOCK windows. Size depends on choice.
there are STANDARD sized windows but they depend on the vernacular of the architectural style and tradition
when window glass was a standard size , the number of lights would often determine the size of the window (eg: 6 over 6..... or 8 over 8 )
proportion and placement also affect the choice.... first floor vs. 2d floor
so , if you look in an old plan book, or a pattern book, you will find Standard Sizes