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Sump Pump – What Type of Pipe?

Stevekay2 | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 18, 2007 04:12am

I’m in the midwest and have a sump pump that drains to daylight. Currently the exterior piping is about 5 feet of iron pipe. I want to extend that and was wondering what is the best material to use.

My main concern is water freezing in the pipe and causing blockage.

 

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  1. Shacko | Apr 18, 2007 06:50pm | #1

    The easiest way is to convert to pvc, this line should be under grade, as long as you have downward pitch on the line there is very little chance of it freezing. The out flow should have a screen on it to prevent animals from making a nest, lots of luck.

    ...............................................
    "if all else fails fails, rread the directions"
  2. DanH | Apr 18, 2007 08:20pm | #2

    Round is good, though square would work, I suppose.

    It really doesn't matter -- there's no pressure to speak of. The cheap corrugated stuff is fine, or you can use regular PVC or ABS drain pipe.

    To minimize the risk of freezing, the setup should be rigged to automatically drain dry when not in use. This means that, as a minimum, all the exterior pipe should be sloped steadily downhill (though it needn't be more than about 1/8" per foot). Beyond that one can get fancy with vacuum breakers and the like, but generally they won't be needed.

    So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
    1. User avater
      Jeff_Clarke | Apr 19, 2007 05:32am | #3

      No pressure in a force main?     ???   Guess again!

      Corrugated pipe is garbage - use Schedule 40 PVC.

      Vacuum breakers - are you kidding?

       

      Jeff

      Edited 4/18/2007 10:33 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke

      1. DanH | Apr 19, 2007 01:37pm | #5

        It's not a force main. The pressure may get up to 10 PSI max. The corrugated stuff will do fine, though regular drain pipe will last longer.No, wasn't kidding about the vacuum breaker either, though, as I said, probably not needed.
        So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

        1. User avater
          Jeff_Clarke | Apr 19, 2007 01:53pm | #6

          Any wastewater pipe under pressure is a force main.

          Did you mean check valve?   Vacuum breakers are used on water supply piping.

          Corrugated piping is unsuitable for any effluent under pressure.

           

          Jeff

          1. DanH | Apr 19, 2007 05:05pm | #7

            The line is not under constant pressure. It drains down. A force main is under essentially constant pressure and needs a check valve.And, no, I meant a vacuum breaker.Finally, as I said, except for it's durablity, the flex pipe is quite adequate for this job.
            So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

      2. Shacko | Apr 19, 2007 06:51pm | #10

        A sump pump is not a force main, they pump only as far as they have too to reach a gravity drain.

    2. Shacko | Apr 19, 2007 06:31pm | #8

      I'm getting stupid in my old age, but where would you need a vacuum breaker on a sump pump install?

      1. DanH | Apr 19, 2007 06:44pm | #9

        If you want to assure that the output line drains down to prevent freezing. Normally shouldn't be a problem, but can be, especially if there's a check valve at the pump.
        So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

        1. Shacko | Apr 19, 2007 07:28pm | #11

          You still lost me, most sump pumps require a check valve.[code]. They are most of the time in a non-freeze situation, give me an example of where you think they should be installed, sorry.

          1. DanH | Apr 19, 2007 08:01pm | #12

            A standard sump pump does not require a check valve -- it shouldn't even be connected to the plumbing. If it's connected to a storm sewer the connection should be via a "standpipe" similar to what's used for a washing machine. A sewage ejector pump, on the other hand, does generally require a check valve. So we're talking sump pump here. The only reason for having a check valve would be if the lift distance were great enough that a substantial amount of water drained back into the sump pit when the pump shut off. Normally the "head" is only about 6-7 feet, so you only have that much pipe to drain, though in some conditions you can end up siphoning more water from outside.The freeze situation we're concerned about is the drain pipe coming from the pump. Assume a normal installation with the pump inside, going up seven feet, exiting through the side of the house, then running (slightly) downhill some distance. If that external pipe is exposed then there is a danger of it freezing.Since the water being pumped is nominally 50F, there's no danger of freezing while the pump is running. But when the pump stops, any water remaining in the external pipe can freeze.Now assume that we have a check valve on the pump, preventing water from flowing backwards back into the pit. The external pipe is filled with water and, in certain situations, can't readily drain because of the vacuum present at the high point where it leaves the house. As a result the pipe can freeze solid. Installing an air admittance valve at the high point would allow the pipe to drain.As an aside, if the output pipe is buried, another useful thing to consider is a "snorkle" near the start of the line. This is a tee in the line with a length of pipe rising up out of the ground and generally terminated in a U. So long as the rest of the pipe is OK this snorkle does nothing other than provide a vacuum break, but should the buried pipe become clogged the snorkle will provide a "relief valve" of sorts to allow the system to continue operating.

            So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

          2. Shacko | Apr 19, 2007 08:22pm | #14

            I can't do it, there are too many things with your post that don't compute, I will not get into a pizzing contest, sorry, but I'm done.

          3. grpphoto | Apr 19, 2007 09:28pm | #15

            > Normally the "head" is only about 6-7 feet, so you only have that
            > much pipe to drain, though in some conditions you can end up
            > siphoning more water from outside.Depends on how much standing water you want in your sump. For every foot of 1.5" head pipe, you'll have about a quart of water draining back into the sump.George Patterson, Patterson Handyman Service

          4. DanH | Apr 19, 2007 11:22pm | #16

            Yep. In most cases a gallon or two (will probably be less due to entrained air, etc) isn't a big deal -- the pit is probably 25-50 gallons or so, and you're only looking at a couple of inches difference in minimum water depth. Becomes more of an issue with a small pit or tall head.
            So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

  3. User avater
    Dinosaur | Apr 19, 2007 06:59am | #4

    If you're worried about freeze-up, I would get that iron pipe out of there and replace it. ABS or PVC are the standards today for permanent drain installations. The corrogated stuff is for portable pumps.

    It would be better if it were below grade until it came out to daylight, and the more pitch you can give it, the better it will drain. Make sure there's enough depth of basin below the daylight end so that there's no chance the end could become submerged due to pooling.

    Dinosaur

    DON'T MISS THE FEST!

     

    How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
    low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
    foolish men call Justice....

  4. grpphoto | Apr 19, 2007 08:14pm | #13

    > My main concern is water freezing in the pipe and causing blockage.

    I ran the line from my pump about 15 feet from the house, with adequate slope to make it drain. The first snowfall of the first year, water hit the snow and froze. I discovered this one morning when I heard the pump kick on repeatedly. Luckily, I had used PVC for the drain, and I just took a saw to the pipe right where it exited the house and ran a temporary drain over the snow from a piece of downspout.

    Come Spring, I replaced the ell where the pipe exited the house with a tee and an inspection plug. After that, I would remove the inspection plug after the first snow and put it back that Spring.

    George Patterson, Patterson Handyman Service

  5. cliffy | Apr 20, 2007 03:18am | #17

    Absolutely do not use corrugated pipe.  They will pretty much always build upo with ice as the ribs hold water and the ice grows.

    My preference is abs.  A few more bucks but thicker and tougher.

    Have a good day

    Clifffy

    1. hvtrimguy | Apr 20, 2007 06:13am | #19

      had the same experience with the corugated pipe. by the way, heat guns melt the stuff too. :-)Jay"it aint the work I mind,
      It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini

  6. ward121 | Apr 20, 2007 06:07am | #18

     I redid my sump set up two years ago. It used to go to the septic.

     I am in a VERY cold enviroment. -30F for a vew days is not unusual

     I went about 60ft to daylight, at the far end I am only about 12 inches under the soil. Not enough to keep it from freezing.

     after seting the entire pipe at the proper slope. I surounded it with sand. Then toped that with 2 inch thick foam board 12 inches wide (to cover the 2 inch PVC).

      Covered that with soil and planted grass.

     Two winters now with no problems!

     

     

    1. User avater
      Jeff_Clarke | Apr 20, 2007 02:20pm | #20

      That's a pretty cool idea ... we're not as cold but I might try that on our 6" end discharge (only 12" deep now).

      Jeff

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