Replies

1. 
   DaveMason2 | Jun 03, 2004 01:58am | #1

   I think that you really should have someone thats qualified take a look at it. The reason is that there are so many variables to that question that it is hard to say what you need.

   That being said, I usually build another wall two or three feet in front of the wall being taken out, but you need to make sure that you are supporting your trusses right and that your floor will support that additional weight. If not then you need to go undernieth and support your floor trusses. It's not something to be taken lightly if you don't know what you're doing it can be very dangerous.

    I'm sure more post will follow that may be more help.

    Good Luck, Dave

1. 
   JohnnyGuitar | Jun 03, 2004 05:35am | #5

   Thanks Dave, and all, who took the time to answer my questions.  I'm going to get some plans drawn that show how to build a temporary support structure, taking everyone's general advice.

   Thanks again,

   JJ

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Jun 03, 2004 06:51am | #6

   It is a very serious and risky operation, but one that happens every day.  Do you have a friend/neighbor who did the same thing?  Ask who their contractor was...he can do some inspecting and tell you how bad it will be.

   Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   YesMaam27577 | Jun 03, 2004 02:47am | #2

   As mentioned in the other reply, you are taking some very serious risk with this project.

   Is your roof framed with trusses, or was is site-built, with rafters. If it's done with rafters, then how will your temporary support prevent the outward spread of the missing wall?

   That is, perhaps, the most serious question that must be answered by the qualified engineer or architect, whose phone number you should now be searching out.

   Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.

1. 
   Sphere | Jun 03, 2004 03:09am | #3

   agreed. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   MikeWalsh | Jun 03, 2004 04:17pm | #7

   Is your roof framed with trusses, or was is site-built, with rafters. If it's done with rafters, then how will your temporary support prevent the outward spread of the missing wall?

   Please forgive me if this is off -- early morning -- but don't the ceiling rafters prevent the spread of the load bearing walls?  And the rafters cause the lateral force?  Then the top plate spreads the load laterally to studs -- unless the rafters are located directly above a stud, in which case, the plate just keeps the studs parallel and vertical until the sheathing and drywall go on.

   So if the ceiling joists are tied in to the rafters (and they'd better be) and you support the joists near the wall, you're set -- assuming that you've set the supports on a slab or another adequate load-bearing base.  Right?

   I wouldn't open up the entire side of the house this way, but I've opened and reframed load bearing walls before, without problems.  Have I been tempting fate?

   Mind you, I still have a bit of experience, and confidence in my abilities -- but I've recently taken an interest in the engineering principles involved. 

   Still learning.  Still asking "Why not?" questions in the hope of gaining new insight into one aspect or another of my craft.

   Thanks.

1. 
   DanH | Jun 03, 2004 05:30pm | #8

   When I redid the header over my garage door, I cut some pieces of 2x6 to wedge between joist and rafter, just above the jack. This assured that the force was transmitted to the roof, without placing undue strain on the joist tail. If the roof is stick-built (mine was truss) you could use some nail plates to these wedges to help assure that the joist and rafter don't slide relative to each other.

   The problem with stick built is that you have no real assurance that the joist and rafter are bonded together. (In fact, they may not even line up.) It may well be that they're both just nailed to the top plate.

1. 
   MikeWalsh | Jun 03, 2004 11:23pm | #11

   Are we cutting the top plate?  I wouldn't.  Then it's a (relatively) simple matter of making sure that the weight of the structure is transferred to the foundation.

   In FHB #137, there is an article "Framing an Opening in a Bearing Wall" by Mike Guertin that covers this kind of work in painstaking detail.  This isn't something you want to screw up!

   I've used 4x4 across the ceiling joists, supported by heavy duty screw jacks; the article shows paired 2x6s.  Better idea.  And when there is a finished ceiling above, I put something that's not slippery and won't mark between my 4x4 and the ceiling.  Whatever I have on hand.  And in the past, I've just cut through the old studs and pulled them; Mike shows how to loosen them from the top plate and cut through the nails with a sawzall.

1. 
   SamT | Jun 04, 2004 04:46am | #12

   The very last job I did, BC, was a 1 1/2 story, new construction, that had been taken from footing trench to sheathing by a total idiot. Fortunately, I was called in before framing pickup even to do the plumbing. From there I morphed into the framing doctor.

   One of the many things I had to do, besides plumbing and aligning all the steel columns, placing most of the sill bolts, leveling floors, etc., was removeing the 2x4 above the main truss support beam and setting the beam under the ridge vert.

   Yeah, look close at the "Old Layout" sketch. That's a 2x4 on edge, on top of the Microlam!!!! It's got 3/8" of bearing under the vert.

   Idiot also thought that a 23' beam was too heavy so he cut it in two at the center post and didn't bother to even try to bond the two pieces together. That post is another story.

   View Image

   As you can see, I placed diagonal braces on each truss from over my temp/jacking wall to the ridge support verts. The pic is not to scale, my temp wall was 8" from the verts, the braces were 4' long, and the verts about 7'. I also braced the floor joists down thru the main floor to the basement slab.

   I guess my point is that you can do anything, as long as you carry the load down to the ground. and I wanted to brag.

   SamT

   Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

2. 
   MikeWalsh | Jun 04, 2004 05:44am | #13

   I guess my point is that you can do anything, as long as you carry the load down to the ground. and I wanted to brag.

   If you know what you're doing, brag away.

   Sometimes I look back over the past few decades and feel like all I did was fix other people's screwups.

3. 
   JDRHI | Jun 03, 2004 05:11am | #4

   Aaaah....don`t listen to those Marys...if ya work fast enough, you won`t even need the temporary wall.

   While I`m having fun at your expense, please take the advice of the previous posters and contact a qualified professional immediately.

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

4. 
   mike4244 | Jun 03, 2004 09:22pm | #9

   I've done this a few times. I am assuming the roof rafters and ceiling joists are resting on these walls. Place 2x4 plates on floor, tack down each end if possible, or otherwise keep plates from moving. Make up double plate for ceiling, cut studs as close as possible to the exact height. You do not want to push up or let joists sag either. Use two sticks for a story rod, measure ,cut, toenail each stud one at a time. If possible the studs should be close to the ceiling joist layout.The double header at the top will give you sufficient strength if you are off a lot. The top plate should also be fastened , nail or screw holes are easily patched. Now you can remove the existing wall and reframe.Do one wall at a time, the temporary wall then can be moved to the other side.If there is any doubt that the existing ceiling joists are not fastened to the wall plate, add some type of simpson tie to the joist and top plates.

   I imagine you are leaving the wall plates intact and just replacing studs and sheathing and possibly the sill plates.I have done this for termite damaged structures, a bit of work but not real tough to do.

   mike

1. 
   JohnSprung | Jun 03, 2004 09:39pm | #10

   Instead of studs, I've done that using 2" black pipe with screw jack ends.  Duff-Norton made them for the mining industry.  That's a lot easier if you're doing more than one wall.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   mike4244 | Jun 04, 2004 03:36pm | #14

   John, I have used screw posts and would use them instead of building a frame wall. I thought that the stud wall would cheaper and easier for a homeowner. The original post left me with the impression that this fellow is a homeowner without a lot of expierence in shoring.

   mike

1. 
   DanH | Jun 04, 2004 06:08pm | #15

   OTOH, I've purchased the cheapo telescoping screw jacks for something like $6 a throw (though this was a few years ago). Probably cheaper than studs, and easier for a HO. The only real trick is to tack the bearing plates to the temporary beam to make the setup easier.