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Got into a discussion at work with a man who slid off a grain elevator in South Dakota (had unclipped harness to turn around)and fell from consecutive roofs 150 feet, luckily the final 20 foot fall was into a waiting grain truck, he had no injuries other than bruises. My own maternal grandfather (1926) died in a ladder fall, so this is not a “joke” post. I’ve never fallen, but have had 150+ stitches once after being mauled by a saw.
Lessons learned stories are often the best, any good ones out there on falls or other lessons learned?
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Got into a discussion at work with a man who slid off a grain elevator in South Dakota (had unclipped harness to turn around)and fell from consecutive roofs 150 feet, luckily the final 20 foot fall was into a waiting grain truck, he had no injuries other than bruises. My own maternal grandfather (1926) died in a ladder fall, so this is not a "joke" post. I've never fallen, but have had 150+ stitches once after being mauled by a saw.
Lessons learned stories are often the best, any good ones out there on falls or other lessons learned?
Easter is most a month past but still see lots of 'resurrection' posts, deck spacing the most recent. In PNW, I space PT 1/4", works for me here.
'nuther' 'resurrection' -- Addition to an old thread, older than 2 of the grandkids <G> .
Most recent building did a complete scaffold around the roof so I'd not follow in Grandpa's path ...
View Image
Art, 150 stitches is way too many for a good story.
Joe H
Maybe the construction industry needs an annual book like "Accidents in North American Mountaineering." Its lets you know why there are rules and what happens when you violate them.
Here is good, non-published, mountaineering accident. On the West Crater rim route on Mt Hood, a woman in the climbing party decides she "has to go." The rope leader says OK, and they stop along the ridge, which is a 1000 ft 45 degree slide into the crater on one side, and a 3000 ft 45 degree slide down the Sandy Glacier on the other. The other three people on the rope turn to give her privacy. Instead of undoing the leg loops of her harness, she undoes the belt. With her snow pants pulled down to mid thigh, she loses her footing and goes backwards down the 3000 ft slope, filling her pants and nether regions with snow. Fortunately, the leg loops catch on her boots and the other three people are able to pull her back up. My buddy was really To'd at her for being so careless. It has been 10 years and he still talks about it like it was yesterday. I guess the idea of returning to base camp with just an open harness tied to the rope got to him. I hear there is alot of paperwork.
I was watching a documentary on an American Everest Expediation and by the change in tone and music, something bad was about to happen.
I had taken a class from Marty Howe and she was hoping to be the first American women on top without oxygen. She died on that trip. Apparently slipped from her harness for not having doubled back the strap through the buckle. Something that is automatic even for me. But hypoxia at 25,000 feet effecs your brain more than anything else.
When I was in the National Guard about 30 years ago, another young fellow showed up for a meeting with a perfect square of scabs framing his face.
Seems they were starting to build a high deck on the back of a house with a steep lot.
I don't know if the ladder sliped or he just fell off, but he did a face-plant in the opening of a cinder block.
Had it been me I probably would have lost all of my teeth. How would you react while flying through the ai, knowing you are about to make a face-plant into then end of a block. Yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii crack crash ching petuie.
When we set a deck we always put guard rails at edge of building and all openings(windows, stair openings,doors,elevators,ETC)
Well the brickies removed the guard rails on one job and well you can guess...............34yr old bricklayer went down 4 stories,didn't survive.Father of 2.
Sad and stupid.Fall protection is #1 in my book on the job site AND AT HOME!
Please be safe!
It's not the falls so much that scare me, it's the sudden stop at the end!
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Pulled up to a womans house many many years ago to pressure clean her roof. Before I could get out of the truck she ran up and stuck her head in my window and said, " You aren't going to fall off my roof are you?" It made me furious and I should have just left. Naturally I didn't but I did tell her that I had been walking roofs and building houses for many years and never even had a close call. Anyway, I started on the edge of the back of the house walking backward to the flat decked porch. Assuming I was next to the porch I stepped over to stand on it and of course it wasn't there. I did a lovely half flip and landed on on my neck and shoulder. To really make it better I fell past the window that she was looking out of. I spent the next month in a recliner taking pain pills and dreading having to get up to go to the toilet. 30 years later I still have pain in my right shoulder and can't hold my right arm over my head more than a few seconds. I wear a safety harness on the bottom step of step ladders now.
how'd I ever miss this thread firsty time around? I could double the number of posts here all alone.
Rode two or three ladders down...
Had wind flip me over an eaved while I was leaning over to...and I landed on the rose bushes to break my fall
Found out how fast ice crystals can make you airbourne on even a low pitch roof
Know what it feels like to have roof jacks cut loose from the decking when you are 26' up there...
Watched other guys go off, ride ladders, and slide down a 28/12 pitch while bouncing over toe boards...
Gawd! I think I'm gonna go crawl inna hole somewhere's and pull a rock in over me.
Speaking of rocks, I know this guy...and when he landed on that big old rock, he broke both heels to land him on his butt in the chair for three months!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Get yur feet going down first and prepare to do a PLF... Works...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
so does a harness - now that I know better.
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Geez Piffin, I've taken some tumbles myself and have gotten back on the horse..er roof.... a whole lot wiser.... and if construction workers and cats share the same number of lives...I still have a few left.
You, on the other hand, Sir, may be slightly overdrawn.
That's why I try to spend as much time on design and management as on the job!
Not that I couldn't fall off the task chair...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Want to know what is the most common injury I have seen?
When you fall, it is instinctive to throw your hand out to reach and grab for something, or to extend it out in front of you to break the fall.
So I have witnessed five broken wrists - none of them mine.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"When you fall, it is instinctive to throw your hand out to reach and grab for something,"
That explains why my hands were still extended over my head...clawing for the roof when I landed........ ;~°
As I watched one guy slide off over the edge, I remember making a half-hearted reach in his direction that, knowing I could not possibly reach him, was more of a a wave goodbye than a grab at his arm.
I remember saying, "Oh Shiiiiit!" as his head disappeared from view.
He survived with only the broken wrist from landing on it.
Funny thing - he was pretty religious in some ways, so about a week later, he asked me - "You know when I fell off the roof the other day? Did I say anything...."
he was soooo relieved to know that he had not come close to meeting his maker with a dirty word on his lips, and that is was me instead.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You know, it doesn't suprise me that he had to ask if he said anything.
Years ago I raced motocross (definately not pro) and had my share of crashes. I always managed to save myself from great injury because of the adrenaline effect....everything had the appearance of happening in slow motion. I can remember every detail...the spokes turning....pulling my hand away....tucking my shoulder in so I would roll...the edge of my helmet grinding my cheek into my teeth...
But the construction falls were over in an instant, no life flashing before my eyes, no slow motion...BANG!......wha happened??? Which is a pretty normal response for alot of people involved in a construction accident...they aren't sure what happened...until they're told.
Isnt that the truth?
By the time you realise something has happened............its all over.
I once had a circular saw back up over my thumb. Stood still for a moment wondering if what I had just seen happen really did happen.
Yup
Then put the thing down and reached for a shirt to stop the bleeding. Still couldnt work out exactly HOW.
I think falls are worse. They scare me way more. Maybe cos on the way down there is enough time to expect the crunch. makes me feel weird thinking about it........
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Back in the early 70s' we were putting a shake roof on a big clubhouse. I was going through a divorce, that was really tearing me up. My stomach was trying to eat its way out, and the gas was awful. Well I let this silent, shall we say toot. Another guy was running another course close behind me. When it hit him he reacted by screaming and spinning around and bolted about six feet to the edge. I thought he was gone. but he managed to one of those hovering hummingbird motions with his arms. I thought he was gone, then I thought it was funny. He wanted to kill me.
A few weeks later we were finishing out the underside of these 10' eves directly under that same spot, and he fell off of the scaffolding from about 25' and landed on his back. It ruptured his spleen or kidney, but lived. Kinda made me wonder if there was this little spot of earth that had his name on it. I guess we all want to leave our mark on this earth, just not that way.
I was just wondering if I had let a fart that actually killed him, could his wife sue me? And could I deflect that to my X. It was all her fault.
on the way down there is enough time to expect the crunch
If my memory serves correct, the rate of fall is 27 ft/sec/sec.
So a 3 story fall would take about a second, a 9 story fall 2 seconds and 3 seconds would be a 16 story fall.
Or another way, 1st second 27 ft, 2nd second 54 ft, 3rd second 81 ft., total 162 ft
Not much time to think, or react.
81 ft/sec = approx 55 mph, I thought it would be faster.
By the International Gravity Formula, g = 978.0495 [1 + 0.0052892 sin2(p) - 0.0000073 sin2 (2p)] centimeters per second squared at sea level at latitude p.
The standard value of gravity, or normal gravity, g, is defined as go=980.665 centimeters per second squared, or 32.1741 feet per second squared. This value corresponds closely to the International Gravity Formula value of g at 45° latitude at sea level.
32.2 ft/sec/sec is generally considered "close enough for government work" and 32 ft/sec/sec is used for rough calculations..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Thanks for the correction Phil, I was relying on a slightly blurred memory of high school physics. 32 ft/sec/sec it is.
The thing I did remember correctly was the conversion of ft/sec to mph
(ft/sec) ÷ (ft/ mile) X 3600 = speed in mph
32 ft/sec ÷ 5280 X 3600 = 21.8 mph
so a 32' fall would result in hitting the ground in 1 second at approx 22mph
a 96' fall would take 2 seconds and hit the ground at approx 44mph
then it starts getting crazy...... 192' fall 3 seconds 130 mph and put into the ambulance with a shovel.
Damn I wish I hadn't read this thread just now. I was going to go do some work on the roof today. But that would just be tempting fate.
However, several years ago I was leaving the house early in the morning for my first skydiving jump. As I opened the front door a black cat came out of nowhere and ran literally over my feet. I am not at all superstitious but it really freaked me out.
Obviously I survived the jump or I wouldn't be telling the story.
Reminds me of the end of A Clockwork Orange.
"But I did not snuff it, because I wouldn't be here to tell this story."
"Obviously I survived the jump or I wouldn't be telling the story."
You know, walking in front of a skydiver is one of the unluckiest things a black cat can do...... probably didn't last the day....
Actually Phil, I think when you refer to 32 ft per second squared, you're talking about acceleration. Velocity is 32 feet per second, not squared. Acceleration is the rate of change ... positive values means the acceleration is increasing (speeding up) and negative values means the acceleration is decreasing (slowing down).
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Yes, when you fall, you don't fall at a constant speed, you accelerate from zero ft/sec at the start of your fall and accelerate at the nominal rate of 32.2 ft/sec/sec. A 32' fall takes longer than 1 second..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I've experienced that suspension of time and the memory lapses both.
The one where I stepped into ice crystals and found out how fast one can slide off, was a slow motion thing for part of it, and another part went so fast there is no mwemory whatsoever. The edge was about 14' up from ground.
As I came off the edge of the roof still in vertical position, I dropped my broom and watched it go to the ground first, where it seemed to stand up like a fence post while I hovered above it, aimed at a spot between my legs.
As I started my descent, I thought, "Oh Boy! This is going to hurt"
The next thing I knew, I was laying on my back with the wind knocked out of me and people asking if I was OK. Apparently, I had managed to use my toes to flick the broom aside, but that left me with my landing gear in the wrong position, so they slid out from under me on the snowpack, and my back slammed into the fender of my truck as I went over hard enough to knock me out and leave me windless.
I remember the first part of the fall clearly and nothing from the final
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Sometimes you guys scare the #### out of me.
""Oh Boy! This is going to hurt""
I've had that same thought flash through my mind once or twice just before an impact.
The best fall story I've heard was from some guys I used to work with. They said they were re-roofing a 2 story house. On the crew was a new kid - Something like 19 years old.
The newbie stepped on something loose and promptly slid off the edge of the roof.
The other guys went over to the edge of the roof, expecting the worst. But to their surprise, they see the kid climbing back up the ladder.
Apparently he slipped off the roof feet first. He landed on a bay roof below, and slid off that too. Then he landed in a bush below, which broke his fall.Men love the idea that they'll meet a nurse who'll be filthy and up for 3-in-a-bed romps. [ Abi Titmuss]
2 questions I always asked prospective laborers - "Do you have a drivers' license?" and "Are you afraid of heights?" One guy answered yes to both questions, only it turned out he WAS afraid of heights.
Kept it to himself so much that I didn't notice anything unusual. He was a little slower when we got up high on a chimney, but that wasn't out of the ordinary. One day I'm working along about 3 or 4 scaffolds high. We've got a ladder on the outside for small trips to be run up. As I turn back toward the mudboard I see him looking at me kind of funny, then his eyes rolled back in his head and he pitched backwards off the ladder.
Landed on his back in between a bunch of basketball-sized rocks. Knocked him out. Got the rescue squad there who took him in to the hospital. He was fine, but that afternoon at the hospital was one of my longest. It was only then that he admitted being afraid of heights.
Kept him on, but on the ground, till he found something else.
"2 questions I always asked prospective laborers - "Do you have a drivers' license?" and "Are you afraid of heights?" One guy answered yes to both questions, only it turned out he WAS afraid of heights."
Well, you said he answered "yes" to both questions, so it should have come as no surprise to you that he was afraid of heights- the second question, as you posted it was "Are you afraid of heights". A "yes" answer should have been a cause for concern.....lol
Bob
Caught me in a brain-fade there! Obviously, or maybe not so obviously, he claimed to not be afraid of heights. Might have had a little more punch if I'd told it right the first time.
was watching a documentary on building the Hoover ? dam. Seems one of the rock drillers fell. man below heard him yell; swung over & snatched him as he flew by. I bet that was a rush.
And that's also why some of the worst injuries come from short falls. You never get a chance to react and protect when you fall off the second step of a 5' step-ladder. And one of the longest recoveries I've had was after a slip while stepping down off the tail-gate..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Statistically, 5' - 10' and anything over 20' result in the most fatalities. The shorter distance means you usually land head-first and over 20' you're travelling fast enough that the impact results in internal injuries.
IanDG
I've been there too.
Without openning my tailgate on a '76 3/4 ton Ford, I got in and grabbed up my power miter - an old 9" Rockwell.
I lifted my leftleg and stepped over the tailgate to the step bumper just like I had done a hundred times before.
But this time, there was packed snow piled there and my foot went right off, so with the mitre cradled to my chest, I went right forward to the ground, landing on chest, miter, side of head, and shoulder by the time my right leg was clearing the top of the tailgate.
One thing I have observed -
The ground gets harder every year!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Boy, that p/u story made me remember one of my least serious, but most painful and embarasing falls. I stepped up on the trailer hitch and leaned over the tailgate to pick something up out of the bed of the truck. It was Christmas day, a little snow on everything and my inlaws were visiting. About the time I lifted whatever it was I was after, my feet slipped off the hitch and I fell with the full force of my weight on my #### which happened to line right up with the top of the tailgate. I layed in the driveway writhing long enough for my MIL to come looking for me. When she got there, she asked me if there was anything she could do. All I could say was, " I think I broke my diqq." I was black and blue for weeks. Oh, it hurts to think about it.
I invented masochism.
OK, lets say you are up a couple of floors nailing decking on a steep roof, and are sliding for the edge. You know it is going to be bad. If you thought fast enough, could you bring yourself to nail your other hand to the deck to stop the slide?
Yikes, that hurts to think about, but it could save your life.
The last time I went over the edge, I managed to lunge for the hood of my van which dented, and broke the fall, and it beat landing on concrete. We were about half through nailing off the first course of felt on a really hot day, and that stuff was melting like hot butter.
Rootburi.....I ain't nailing my hand to anything!
Fall stories:
in thirty years, I had to "drop" only once off a 12/12 roof. It was only one story (11' drop). Climbing onto the roof, my spider senses started tingling. I peeked over the edge to see what the landing was going to be. I only had to renail a trim board that the roofers had dislodged....1 minute tops!. Of course, my feet started slipping on the shingles and I just gave it up and jumped off, doing the bend the knees and roll thing.
That taught me a lesson. Now, if my spider sense tingles, I check the landing...then nail a kicker on!
My good story is about my slightly overweight uncle who paints. He fell off a 4' step ladder and tried to break his fall with his arms. Remember, he's slightly overweight...okay, slight is a minor understatement. Anyways, he broke both of his wrists and had to have them in bent casts that locked his elbows.
My aunt had to wipe his bottom for the next 6 weeks!
blue
PS She must really love him!If you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Yeas, she must. Mine doesmn't love me enough to follow me into the men's room, of that - I am sure.
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You heard the bells of Christmass, eh?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I layed in the driveway writhing long enough for my MIL to come looking for me. When she got there, she asked me if there was anything she could do."
Guess you could have asked her to kiss it to make it feel better...(-:Q: What's the difference between the Pope and your boss?A: The Pope only expects you to kiss his ring.
And that's also why some of the worst injuries come from short falls.
Naaah ....a buddy slipped off a 4 story roof and landed on the side of a dumpster, ribs smashed , lung collapsed, mutiple internals. I can't believe he recovered. Another friend, 3 stories, pelvis broken several places. Still walks with a severe limp 20 years later, and can tell you when it will rain 4 days in advance. While pumping conrete into a 6' high by 14" wall, another guy I'm working with is walking on top of the forms (wedges and 2X4 whalers) hugging the hose with both arms when the hose clamp lets go on the pumper and four sections of hose filled with concrete land on him, crushed 3 vertabrae before he tumbled 6' to the rocks below, he's never been the same.
And another thing they have in common, is all have been screwed over by WCB.
The injuries that come from short falls would be a blessing to these guys.
Guy in tamps FL fell 7 or 8 stories...
Landed face 1st in an inflatible kiddie pool...
Got a bloody nose..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
When you fall, it is instinctive to throw your hand out to reach and grab for something, or to extend it out in front of you to break the fall.
So true. I teach judo, where learning to fall properly is the first thing you're taught, and have a lot of stories where having trained your body to fall safely has prevented broken bones.
The most recent was my DH, who fell 10' off the top a ladder a week ago working on our roof. He got bruised, but didn't break anything, because he landed safely.
It's amazing how pain is such a better teacher than common sense--I'd been after him to get a safety harness for working on the roof, but he pooh-poohed the idea until he fell. He bought a safety harness the next day.
Leigh
When you fall, it is instinctive to throw your hand out to reach and grab for something, or to extend it out in front of you to break the fall.
Too true. But in one instance, it saved my caboose. Working on a ladder propped against a wall on platform over a ridge of a mudroom replacing a gable vent. The platform was not tied off, which was my fault. I yanked the vent lose and the ladder and platform kicked out. Landed on the ridge of the mudroom and rolled to the edge, and over. On my way down I threw out my arms, and snagged the ladder propped against the house. Good thing to, as the right knee had been rebuilt 8 months before. That's all I could think about while going over, I'm gonna have to endure another knee operation.
Funny, been up on roofs this week, came home and told my wife, I'm not afraid of heights, I'm just afraid of falling from them.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Hey Guys,
OK, Here's my .02 , and a question.
First, last year took a 20' fall onto an asphalt driveway, Inclined driveway ,oily, and a nice misty morning.( gee, you think it was slippery?) ladder goes out from under me, when my eyes open, I'm looking sideways at the grass, oops , this cant be good. Broken wrist, Broken facial bones, eye socket, (now I sport some titanium plates and screws under my skin ,kinda terminator style, No , it aint funny but lets try to laugh) Any how afterwards, guys were trying to tell me " what you gotta do see, is grab blah blah blah" Yea Right ! My response now is "YOUr DEFINITION OF A SPLIT SECOND CHANGES AFTER YOU HIT THE GROUND ! "
Now for the question part, Any one ever have well I call it like a flashback of hitting the ground? Once in a while all of a sudden , for no reason, I'll get that sickening "thud" sensation . Dont know why r when but it happens. anybody else ?
EJ
like a flashback of hitting the ground?
Geez man, that was not a good day taking it in the face like that. Knew of another fellow who did the ladder slip, the ladder didn't fall, his feet did. Probably knocked out after his chin hit the second rung and 14' to go. Busted face and forehead, smashed out most of his teeth, small town doctor who worked on him didn't do him any favors in the beauty department, he could scare kids.
That was 30 odd years ago, the way they put people back together nowdays is amazing.
As for the flashback thing, with my 29' fall, it was a while before I was lucid enough to feel the pain. The flashback I remember like yesterday was gettin hit by a car. I tried to leap up so I wouldn't go under the wheels, I was in the air when the car hit my legs but as the legs went up my head came smashing into the pavement. I managed to crawl to the curb and was sitting when the driver (my old sunday school teacher, Mr Penner) asked if I was alright. Guess he didn't recognize me in my 20's and with all that blood running down my face. Probably why he took off.
But I can still see the whole thing, the grill the color of the paint, the crunch, 25 years ago.
A sort of post-traumatic event. I still have flashbacks of the fall itself at times, especially when watching one of those movies whith skydivers or cliff clinbers or whatever.
But - you know- I had dreams like that when i was young too - the only nightmares I ever had were someting to do with heights and faling.
prophetic maybe? my destiny to die from a fall?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My father always said to look down from where you are when high up. Think about where you'll hit if you fall. Ask yourself where you'd like to hit if you fell. Do this constantly as you move about up high.
Ask yourself what do I have to do during the fall to get to that softer or better spot. Let your subconscious have at it and trust when you do fall, if you do, your instincts will most times get you to a the place you programmed in.
This helped me a lot during my union days building scaffolding for the local power plants. Most times in those days we would be over 100', not a likely fall to survive. But there were better spots to hit if I ever did and in doing this I had a little hope, albeit delusional sometimes.
Wow, who resurrected this old thread? (I was Art B here prior to prospero)
In the original thread, I'd gotten the original 'fallee' to respond with the details (Montana, not ND, his boss watched him go by a window, etc.)
My response in the current DIY thread about my Mom not wanting me to travel 2000 miles to paint her house was due to her father's fall death. (1929, not 1926).
Pro-Deck had a good entry with safety tips in the original thread and has the scars to prove it. It was interesting when the wives got together talking about injuries at a mini-fest at Blodgett's (2001, or 2002?) - ya know you are getting old when you can't even remember which year was which .
An additional event after the original post.
Couple of years ago was trimming a 4" dia branch off a big maple, 40 feet in the air, 30 ft of ladder on top of the ROPS (another safety story there) of my dozer. Harness on. Anyway, rookie mistake, had not tied off the limb itself, it fell, bounced off the ground with the butt springing up and knocking out the bottom of the ladder.
Hanging in the air by your harness with a toe luckily able to catch the top ladder rung (so you could pull it up and get down without DW knowing of another close call) is a little scary but sure beats a fall!
Yeah, my wife loves to tel about the day she got a phone call from me, Hi Honey, You busy? I was wondering if you'd like to take some time off to take me and my finger over to the hospital..."
Friend of mine rode a sheet of plywood off a four story apt. building.
He said he remembered looking at the building on his way down and seeing his shadow.
On one highrise job, we had a taper walk out a window backwards on his stilts.
Worst fall I ever took was off a four foot high walk board. Just forgot where I was and walked right off it. Somehow, my feet got pulled back and I landed on my knees.