Hi all,
Just finished framing a large permanent shelter for a camper. (Building will be enclosed and become a workshop one day).
Problem is it sways pretty violently when I walk on it, or even push on it from the ground. (especially if I get a good rhythm going). I’m afraid to put the shingles on it (let alone snow and high winds) till I can stiffen it up.
I don’t want to obstruct the view from the camper windows with a bunch of framing if I can help it, and I’m wondering if I can use cables and turnbuckles.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
Kyle
“Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours.”
Replies
The 6X6s are unbraced for bout 12' or so.
Unless you brace the roof to the bottom of the posts somehow it's gonna keep swaying.
A: It might be your bicycle.
Thanks. Think cables would do the job?
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
cables need to be paired in cross tension to do much for you. I'd also be worried that placing them very low would make for a chance to clothesline somebody and hurt them. i see another probably weak point. Are those kickers only held in place by one 1/2" lag each?
Looks pretty, and neat work, but several toenails or screws would do a lot more for you to avoid movement in the joint. You could also try tightening all of them. I see this is PT lumber which shrinks daily for the first couple months, so that would cause a lot of slop in those joints in just a few days
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Good points. What's a kicker?
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
The angled boards that you have in the corners are also called knee braces or kickers. Particularly the ones inside the building running from the column to the ceiling joists.
You also need to add X bracing in at least one bay below the roof at the ridge running down to the ceiling joists with horizontal brace/stiffener going from ceiling joist to ceiling joist. The entire rafter system can transfer laterally in the direction of the ridge. Happens all the time with unbraced trusses. Its less common with rafters but can happen.
If your columns are well anchored to the foundation piers you might not need a horizontal brace at the base of the columns in the braced bay or bays but you will probably need X or K bracing from that horizontal beam the rafters are sitting on, to the base of the columns. If the columns are strong and stiff enough you might not have to go all the way to the column bases.
Use forged eyes on the turn buckles and anchor points not bent eyes as the bent ones will straighten out.
The more bracing you put in the smaller the sections of pieces or diameter of cables & rods can be. Its beyond the scope of this forum to go into how to determined the number of braced bays you need or how to size the cables but those issues need to be addressed for safeties sake.
Jim
What Jim said. Those 45 degree 'braces' aren't enough to do much of anything.
Jeff
The diagonal brace you have is the kicker
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Too late now, but imbedding the posts would have helped considerably.
Mike
Kyle,
your knee braces (the diagonal double 2x6's) need to be at least twice as long as they are now, 6 feet long would do. You should probably use 4x4's instead of 2x's and fasten them w/ carriage bolts running horizontal (not angled as the lags are now) through one 4x4, through the post and then through the other 4x4.
You drill counter-sinks to accommodate the bolt head and a washer on one side and a washer and the nut on the other end, this locks the whole assembly together much better than what you have now, At the top of the brace you fasten them vertically into the bottom of the 2x12's (with the same counter sink technique) using lags, adding toenails, as Piffin mentioned, would help at this connection.
The collar ties (horizontal 2x4's halfway up the rafters) should be 2x6's and sitting down on the beam the rafters sit on, they're doing no good that high up on the rafters. You would clip the top corner of each collar tie to match the roof pitch so they fit under the sheathing and have them span from outside to outside of the beams. The 2x8's you have running between the beams are not needed and just reduce your ceiling height.
Diagonal bracing from the ridge to the top of the beam at each end would also help in stiffening the structure.
You could also do the knee braces on the outside face of the posts and beam and through-bolt them using 2x8's, although this is not as aesthetically pleasing as the 4x4 method, it will function structurally just as well with less material required (you can use the 2x8's you already have in the ceiling, if you fix the collar tie situation)
Geoff
your problem is at the base of the post I'd a put them post 3-4 ft in the ground. larger braces may help some but i doubt they cure it.turn buckle it. top to bottom opposing directions between each post.
Kyle,
My reaction is to direct your attention to the bases of the columns rather than the tops and bracing. All the post/pedestal joints are acting like hinges, when they should be rigid.
Since you are not about to reconstruct at thisstage, how about some buttressing braces outboard of the posts and double at the rear corners.
Two examples to copy - airplane hangars and mansard style construction.
I like the trailer, but hate the slope.
Lapun/
Thanks to everyone for the information regarding my swaying structure.
I ended up attaching some 1/4" cables diagonally between the posts and that made all the difference. An x on each of the long ends and two x's opposing each other on the taller end. I'm no longer concerned about heavy snow and wind taking it down. I'll cover them with some pipe insulation to help prevent serious injury when I have forgotten they're there and run into them.
Many thanks again for all of the helpful opinions!
Take care,
Kyle
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
I think I would put some rails on it so people don't walk or run into a wire.
Good idea. Thanks.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
Are those cables attached to the kickers? That wouldn't be good.
No, they're attached just to the top and bottoms of the posts. Through bolted.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
I was saddened to see this turn ugly. The solution works and I think your happy so its satisfactory. What you built around here they would call a pole barn. Those 6x6's would be rated for in ground use ( .6) I belive is the treatment rating and sunk preferably 1/3 into the ground 5- feet or so in your case. Compacted gravel for good drainage around the post
That takes all the sway out from day one. Thats my opinion done that way they are rock solid. I realize you wouldn't be able to change that and without putting sheathing on those cables were the best option you could have come up with. The weak point will always be connection to the sonna tube.
Thanks for the reply. I agree that that would have made everything more solid, but I have a philosophical problem with putting wood into the ground, even PT. This was a harder way to do it, but oh well it's done, as you say!
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
Around here, Hawaii, direct burial is almost never done because of termites. Even when the lumber is PT. The only common exception is fence posts, which usually get destroyed 10 years later!
Nice to see your cabling provided adequate shear resistance. You should look into installing (or reinstalling) the eyebolts as close to being in-line with the direction of the cables. Installing them straight into the posts and pulling them at a 45 degree angle will reduce their capacity by 50%.
Nice, neat work.
Thanks for your reply. That's sounds like a good idea. I would have to get longer bolts in that case, so probably won't do that right away.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
Who desigensd this, and is it getting inspected?
My design and I'm the inspector. What a combination!
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
My design and I'm the inspector. What a combination!
That means, no permits and no inspections. Figures!! And you wonder why is wasn't built right and ready to fall down and now your asking people on the Internet to bail you out so that your building doesn't fall down.
Another one who doesn't get proper permits and a proper design and then builds it himself FIRST and then tries to correct it afterwards.
Joe Carola
I thought that was the purpose of the website - to ask for advice.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
Edited 8/13/2009 5:24 pm ET by KylefromKy
No one. Is what I said above true? No drawings, no permits and no inspections from the town? Yes, or no?
Joe Carola
Sorry for my first reply. That was unnecessary and I've edited it out. I make my own drawings, but ask for and receive no permits and no inspections. That's why I ask for advice on this website.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
I make my own drawings
I know that, but what makes you think that what you drew and built is structurally sound?
but ask for and receive no permits and no inspections.
What does that mean? You went to the town and asked for permits and they didn't give them to you and you built this thing anyway?
That's why I ask for advice on this website.
If what I just said above is true, why would you even think of building this thing without asking advice FIRST? What makes you think your qualified to design a build that is structurally sound?
Joe Carola
Joe,
I appreciate your advice, and your concern for my safety. You're right that it would be wiser and safer to get permits and drawings from qualified individuals before construction, and perhaps that could be a disclaimer accompanying each member's reply.
I make my own drawings and build my own buildings simply because I enjoy the process. I make no claim to be qualified at all, more or less so than anyone else. I do the work and I live with the consequences. Sometimes I ask for advice.
I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me.
Perhaps the issue of permits, inspections, qualifications, etc. and the wisdom thereof would be better addressed in a new thread elsewhere in this forum. All I wanted was building advice for a specific problem, which I have received, and for which I am grateful.
Again, thanks for your input, and I apologize for my first reply. I answered inappropriately.
Best wishes,
Kyle
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
Joe,I appreciate your advice, and your concern for my safety. You're right that it would be wiser and safer to get permits and drawings from qualified individuals before construction, and perhaps that could be a disclaimer accompanying each member's reply.
I said that to you and asked you IF you need drawings and permits to build. If not, keep doing what you're doing. The only thing I say is to design it and check somewhere to make sure it allright and structurally sound.
I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me.
This is my problem with you. You don't even know or care whether you are doing the right thing. If you need drawings, permits and inspections, you simply don't care and keep doing things illegally.
If you checked and found out you need nothing and can design and build whatever you want, keep doing what you're doing and I hope it works for you.
Until then, your telling everyone her that it doesn't matter to you whether you need to get drawings, permits and inspections like the rest of the world does, doesn't matter to you at all.
If anyone on this forum who I admire and respect for so many years agrees with what you just said, I have lost respect for them. It's not right what your doing by not finding out the proper way to build like the rest of the world.
I did not insult you just now, so moderators can do whatever they want with this post. I think the moderators will agree with what I said because they would never do what your doing and I don't think they want people on this forum to think that they can just do things illegally simply because they just don't care to find out.
Sorry, but I just can agree with what you're doing by not caring about whether your doing things legally or not.
Joe Carola
Edited 8/14/2009 8:48 pm ET by Framer
Codes and such vary from town to town, county to county, state to state. Some areas won't let you even change a window without a permit, others couldn't care less. Just because one area NEEDS all of those permits DOES NOT mean the next town, county, or state does. Unless you are firmiliar with the codes of the OP's district, do not be "judge and jury" for him/her. Now, the OP has his "info", has "signed off" on the project. "Court adjourned".
I refuse to respond after this post but just so you know, I am a homeowner but also a professional in the trades for many years, if you don't think so just check out the photo gallery here.
Oh by the way,
I've lost all respect for you!
I've lost all respect for you!
That's good. That means you did have respect for me. I never had any for you.
Joe Carola
This is what I said in the first sentence of my last post which you obviously didn't read before you wasted your time posting. Read next time.
I said that to you and asked you IF you need drawings and permits to build. If not, keep doing what you're doing. The only thing I say is to design it and check somewhere to make sure it allright and structurally sound.
Joe Carola
Case closed. I READ quite well, thank you. Do you?
I read fine, you obviously don't. Case closed. If you don't like what I have to say, mind your business and don't post to me.
Joe Carola
I WILL post any bloody place I so please. I do not recall needing your permission to do so. Maybe one should start a thread about MANNERS around here. Now, be a good fella, and go cry into a shop rag or something else besides attacking posters here. And now, "laddie-buck", I think this little "Loser's Rant"of your's should be DONE!
I WILL post any bloody place I so please. I do not recall needing your permission to do so. Maybe one should start a thread about MANNERS around here. Now, be a good fella, and go cry into a shop rag or something else besides attacking posters here. And now, "laddie-buck", I think this little "Loser's Rant"of your's should be DONE!
Your still here!Joe Carola
Yep, and laughing my rear end off!
That's because you love me......
Joe Carola
Yeah right! I just love a good auld barney is all. Add in a couple of Guiness stouts and I'm good to go. Same old arguements, you're a "Framer" guy, I'm a "mud (concrete) guy. Always said a "good" set of plans was good for one thing: to cover one's "foundation" if the print-guy FOBARed the print. It would all be HIS fault, not mine. Been there, done that.
Joe, I think you are creating un-necessary confusion in this thread by addressing white dog as tho he were the OP Kyle from Kty. They are not the same person
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Come on now. What would make you possibly think that I think they are the same person. You are starting to create un-necessary confusion now.
The guy doesn't like what I have to say. I respond back to him. It's between him and I now, right? No confusion on my part.
Joe Carola
So wait, that means you and Piffen aren't the same guy? Man, I'm confused now..LMAO.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Because about 15-20posts back in this thread you said "You" adressing him personally and reminding him that you had early on asked him if ...permits inspection and all that, but you had not asked HIM that, you had asked Kyle that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
There ya go - Mikeroop got the post dredged up where you first got off track and confused about who you were talking to. Kyle fro Kty was the OP. White dog did not build the structure.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Sorry. Mike was right. My bad. I did get confuused. I still meant every word I said though.
What are your thoughts on the OP poster saying this?
I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me.
Joe Carola
Edited 8/17/2009 12:12 pm ET by Framer
In some parts of the country, yep, that's the way it is. His county may not even HAVE a "zoning board" , let alone a place to even "pull a permit". Check around, YOU might get a surprise or two.
In some parts of the country, yep, that's the way it is.
Do you mean that they are doing what the OP is doing, not even caring whether he needs drawings, permits and inspections and if he's building illegally or not?
That's my problem with this guy. Then he builds something that's ready to fall down and comes here and asks for help and openly admits that he will never ask to even see if he needs permits, drawings and inspections and doesn't care if he's building illegally or not.
Do you think that is right?
His county may not even HAVE a "zoning board" , let alone a place to even "pull a permit".
I understand that and already addressed that with my first question to him and asked him that, and he didn't answer. Had he come back and said that this is true and doesn't need any permits, drawings and inspection and can design and build whatever he wants.
I would have no problems with him. I would tell him or anyone else who THINKS they can design and build something that's structurally sound to ask first BEFORE you build to make sure that what you're doing will be structurally sound.
Check around, YOU might get a surprise or two.
I won't get any surprises in NJ as far as having to build without drawings, permits and inspections because you have to everywhere with a building like that. It wasn't a shed.
Joe Carola
Things ARE "different" in both NJ and KY. The OP may be so far back in the "hills" that it takes three days for the sun to come up. Here in OH, some locations allow this to go on, others won't allow a door to be changed without a permit.
The OP may be so far back in the "hills" that it takes three days for the sun to come up.
His phone still works and he can still call to see if he needs, permits, drawings and inspections to build. My whole point that I keep saying is that he said he doesn't CARE whether he needs any of this and builds illegally or not.
Someone like him with that attitude I wouldn't help for a second and will be rude too and not worry if his feelings were hurt. I'm very surprised to see that people here would want to help a guy like this who doesn't care because all the good people here do care about what they do.
Joe Carola
THEN STOP WORRYING ABOUT HIM. I doubt if he will ever ask here again, and you have been at the forefront of scaring others away. When I had to add two decks to a house years ago, as long as I stayed under a certain size, no permit, no inspections, no hassles. Decks have not moved so much as an inch. One was free standing, the second one was attached to the house. Decks were built about 1988, house was built 1892. I doubt if there was a permit for the house, ever. If the OP was both the builder AND the shed's owner, he has nothing to fear from any self-appointed permit police.
THEN STOP WORRYING ABOUT HIM.
It's you and everyone else who keeps responding to me are the ones that are worried about what I say. Stop posting to me and I won't post back. Noticed the OP hasn't because he knows what he said was wrong.
I doubt if he will ever ask here again, and you have been at the forefront of scaring others away.
Are you for real? I hope I do scare others away that intend to do what this guy does and not find out whether they need drawings, permits and inspections and build something first because they don't care about finding out or doing it the right way.
When I had to add two decks to a house years ago, as long as I stayed under a certain size, no permit, no inspections, no hassles.
OMG!! How did you know that? You obviously asked the town if you needed permits, right? This guy didn't and will not, and doesn't care, right? Totally different.
Do you want to keep worrying about what I have to say and going on and on, or stop posting to me and drop it? I will drop it if everyone drops it. If anyone here doesn't underhand what pissed me off about the OP, just stop posting to me and I won't repeat myself. I'll make it a sticky.
"I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me."
Joe Carola
Edited 8/17/2009 2:31 pm ET by Framer
I did not have to ask about a permit. There are guide-lines posted in the town hall where one pays the water bills at. As for your anger at the OP, IT"S JUST A SHED! OP needed a way to BRACE the SHED, NOT BUILD A HOUSE! Never been to an Amish Barn Raising then? NO permits are ever asked for on these. I guess the "Permit Polizie" better get on the case! As for me, I answer ALL posts directed at ME, regardless of how "MAD" the poster acts.
I did not have to ask about a permit. There are guide-lines posted in the town hall where one pays the water bills at.
So you knew what was right and wrong from the guide-lines posted at the town hall. Not the same thing as the OP. What don't you understand?
"I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me."
You KNOW you're doing the right thing. He doesn't know nor does he care. Understand yet?
As for your anger at the OP, IT"S JUST A SHED!
Something that big isn't just a shed. The thing was swaying back and forth. If that fell down, someone could've been hurt bad. How did he know he didn't need permits, drawings and inspections for that? He didn't care, just built it and it was ready to come down, Brilliant!
Never been to an Amish Barn Raising then? NO permits are ever asked for on these. I guess the "Permit Polizie" better get on the case!
No. Couldn't care less. Maybe they already know that they need nothing. OP doesn't and doesn't care. Understand yet?
As for me, I answer ALL posts directed at ME, regardless of how "MAD" the poster acts.
As for me, someone comes on here and does what the OP does, I'll say the same thing. Are you the "Poster Police"?
Joe Carola
Edited 8/17/2009 2:54 pm ET by Framer
As for your anger at the OP, IT"S JUST A SHED! OP needed a way to BRACE the SHED, NOT BUILD A HOUSE!
Just so you know. He doesn't just build sheds.
This is from OP.
I make my own drawings and build my own buildings simply because I enjoy the process. I make no claim to be qualified at all, more or less so than anyone else. I do the work and I live with the consequences. Sometimes I ask for advice.
Joe Carola
Framer, after reading everything you have posted (OK, maybe not everything, you just kept repeating yourself after awhile), I have come to the conclusion that YOU are the moron here!
Soooo cfw3,What did you have to say in your 1st post on BT? was it 9 yrs ago?
Barry E-Remodeler
YO! Super Squirrel,
"Soooo cfw3,What did you have to say in your 1st post on BT? was it 9 yrs ago?"
I see why he don't post much!
He's got a valid point!
Framer is getting all up in the air over B.S. and this dude calls it
like it is.
Jump back and read this thread from outside the box,....Framer is overboard, and fell into radical. If you're his friend, pull him out and dry him off!
It ain't no wonder why people shy away from this sight!
Framer is overboard
If I'm overboard, how come you nobodies keep talking sh!t? What rock did you crawl out from under? Another one I've never heard of.
Joe Carola
Let's just give each other a break here. You guys are turning a simple request for advice into a purse slinging match that doesn't need to be.
Everyone has made their point and a new poster is probably scared to ask any more questions. That's not the way anyone wants it.
I'm asking everyone to back off.
Ice cream is on me.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
Ok, who threw the icecream on you?And what happened to Grant?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I was wondering about him myself. He went for five days with no real contact with his customers or crews. I hope he's just catching up.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
I might have to drive up there and see whats up.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Stick your nose in real slow first and smell around. Don't want to walk in on a dead body.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
Hey, he just showed up! Over in Walter's copper and cedar thread, what dya know, speak and he appears!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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He's a survivor that one.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
Edited 8/17/2009 11:01 pm ET by Gunner
Does that mean the crusade is over? I'll take Chocalate- Chip mint, if you please.
Yes. It's all over. It was just a bad dream.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
OK if we turn it down from purse slinging to a pillow fight?
That way I can change to my PJs.8<)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
the skirt and heels were getting uncomfortable???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Naw, I was getting chilled sitting here with nothing on.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
wat too much information...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Plumber,you need to be around a little longer and know the history before you make calls like thatrookie
Barry E-Remodeler
Framer Joe,The OP came here with a great looking boat shelter which he had built himself, for himself. He asked for help to improve stability, much the same as many others have asked for help to stabilize a "bouncy floor," probably built to code. You have made yourself the forum "permit police." I don't think the OP ever asked for your help, but you have risen so high on a thousand soapboxes that you have just about no respect left for anyone else, including me.Here's a corollary to this story. Building codes have so over-reacted to deck failures, that decks can no longer be attached to brick homes. I have only seen one such free standing deck to date -- I'm sure it swayed far worse than the OP's boat roof. Over time, all the fasteners have loosened. Where's that B.I. and Architect now?
The OP came here with a great looking boat shelter which he had built himself, for himself. He asked for help to improve stability, much the same as many others have asked for help to stabilize a "bouncy floor," probably built to code.
How do you know it's the same, did they say that they don't care about getting permits, drawings and inspections and don't care whether they are building illegally or not? You don't know what you're talking about either.
You have made yourself the forum "permit police."
You obviously build without permits, drawings and inspection and build illegally to defend the OP.
I don't think the OP ever asked for your help, but you have risen so high on a thousand soapboxes that you have just about no respect left for anyone else, including me.
Don't even know who you are. Doesn't matter what you think. What you say means nothing and only proves that you do what the OP does. I feel that anyone who says this, "I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me." doesn't deserve any advice because they just don't care about don't the right thing from the start.
Joe Carola
I would bet that more than half the trades people in this country (and on this forum) have remodeled or repaireed their own homes WITHOUT a permit at some time.Be careful Framer Joe ... pride preceedeth the fall....................................................Btw, not to change the subject, but how do you post in color with different fonts?
I would bet that more than half the trades people in this country (and on this forum) have remodeled or repaireed their own homes WITHOUT a permit at some time.
Maybe true. Are they dumb enough to say this on a forum?
"I live in the country and have never bothered to ask if I need a permit. I may, or may not be building illegally. It doesn't matter to me."
Do you respect someone who says this? Are you willing to help someone who says this, yes, or no?
If you don't respect me because I don't like what the OP said above and won't change my mind, why are you posting to me? Why did you say I have no respect for you in your first post? I don't even know who you are.
Joe Carola
"Btw, not to change the subject, but how do you post in color with different fonts?"
Are you using Fire Fox?
If so,.... goto this thread.....121372.280
Luka gave me an intro to HTML.
If this is what you need, post to me over there and I'll give you
the other codes.
"Lemme Know"
"Btw, not to change the subject, but how do you post in color with different fonts?"
Are you sure you really want to? Writers from Socrates to Joyce seem to have been able to get their point across without resorting to making their work look like a grade six art project. I would have thought after seeing how it enhanced this discussion you would be running in the opposite direction.
Very good observation!I see your point! But those above the six grade level can use HTML for picture posting, and pictures can be very useful. Plus it can help to separate a quote from the rest of the text in a post, you know, to keep the 6th graders from being confused! :-)
I'm just bitter because my computer skills are so poor and I can't even post pictures. I'll take a look at the link.
Don't hold it in, Dude! You've been here long enough to know how this place works! Ask questions,... sort out B.S. answers from good answers, (Via Google maybe!).B.T. is like a fine tool! It's worthless if you don't know how to use it!!! But when you learn how to use a fine tool,...it might just be more valuable than you'd ever imagine! Especially if you have a creative imagination.
Thanks Plumber Bob for the intro to HTML. I printed it out. This forum has always been one of the most archaic, yet the info here is priceless ...FingersandToes, it's amazing the kinds of people we can meet on these forums, huh!?! When I found out that our good friend Framer Joe is from greater NYC, it all made sense. Folks in NYC always know what's best for the rest of us.
>>>Writers from Socrates to Joyce seem to have been able to get their point across without resorting to making their work look like a grade six art project. Oh man.... LOL, just about sprayed beer at my laptop screen...Scott.
Edited 8/18/2009 1:16 am by Scott
<Building codes have so over-reacted to deck failures, that decks can no longer be attached to brick homes. I have only seen one such free standing deck to date -- I'm sure it swayed far worse than the OP's boat roof. Over time, all the fasteners have loosened. Where's that B.I. and Architect now?>Um.. not attaching decks to brick veneer is a good thing. iffen you've only seen one free standing deck you don't have a lot of data to draw you're conclusion from do you?
Barry E-Remodeler
<Um.. not attaching decks to brick veneer is a good thing.iffen you've only seen one free standing deck you don't have a lot of data to draw you're conclusion from do you?>I see thousands of decks attached to brick houses and all are stable. Try finding a free standing deck BarryE. I found one and it's shaky. Properly attaching decks to Brick houses is a GOOD thing. Just because it's code doesn't mean it's good for the house -- hey my house was built to code -- aluminum wiring and all. Wait till decks start falling down again, and then they'll let us bolt them to brick houses again.
"Try finding a free standing deck BarryE. I found one and it's shaky. "All you said there is that you found one that a guy like Kyle built - a guy who didn't know how to build it right.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<I see thousands of decks attached to brick houses and all are stable. Try finding a free standing deck BarryE. I found one and it's shaky.>I've not only found them, I've built them and they are still standing with no sway. If the one you found was shaky, I still wouldn't blame the codes.Even if BI's approved it I would never attach a deck to a brick veneer house unless it was through bolted and accounted for the gap between brick and frame
Barry E-Remodeler
<Even if BI's approved it I would never attach a deck to a brick veneer house unless it was through bolted and accounted for the gap between brick and frame>I feel so much better knowing we are in complete agreement -- plus, like the new code spec'ed -- at least two bolted fasteners must connect joist to joist -- not just rim to ledger
Yeah, not having decks attached to brick veneeer is a good thing!
Too bad that one freestanding deck was built by someone who didn't know how also.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
exactly
Barry E-Remodeler
Having the deck attached to the brick veneer is way different than attaching the deck properly to a house with a brick veneer.
It's true that i much of this country, that's the way it is, but a professional builder has a duty to know, and to find out if he does not know.Partly because he does his client a dis-service just the same as if he built with no foundation or if he used trim nails for framing. In those examples, the structure would fall down. In some places, building with no permit means the owner would be fined and have to take it down. Either way, it is theft by incompetence.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It would be a boring world if everyone, whether Type A personality or not, had to toe a line on comments when speaking plainly from the heart on various matters.
I mean there are many different personalities and character traits in people and one needs to be able to read between the lines to get a true pic of what is being said
without flowing off into reactionary impulses because a train of thought or various expressive comments that can be viewed as crude or rude in some circles has a negative impact on them.
It's not like we are reading cursory statements aimed at intending harm or vagrant vulgarities.
Don't care for a sterile world void of variety.
let's be understanding
Hunh?Did you just tell us to clean the potatoes out of our ears?
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
snorK* nah, it's in threads like these that sooner or latter will have gems appear and end up learning stuff one might not get from any other place. Kinda like the old BT flavor of the past.
being reminded of that old school song: 'Rueben, Rueben I've been thinking what a sad world this would be...'
Old BT flavor..yeah, I just finished the popcorn.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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was it peed in? :)
Just don't put the empty popcorn bag in Joe's dumpster
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Congratulations!
Piffin receives the 'MrT/brownbagg OneLiner' Award.
Saaalute!!!View ImageView Image
I really don't deserve this one.I'm almost embarassed I said it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yep, but you did,
yes you did.
yes you did...
Did you just tell us to clean the potatoes out of our ears?
No. He said veer from vagrant vulgarities void of variety. View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
when I read that, I thought, "with that attitude, This is not gonna be the first time Kyle has to go back and re-do something"Which is why I tried to explain reality to him nicely along about post #60 I think it was.I also wondered if he was not giving you more ammo to throw back at him.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well not to perpetuate this needlessly or anything... I don't care if you told off some guy on the Internet.
Heck I don't care if you pissed off the regulars.
What's the difference anyhow? What interests me is your repeated condemnation of the permitless builder. Now, I understand a personal vendetta against unsafe structures. Hell, I get being frustrated with numbskulls who make a big mess then
ask how to fix it. But, your permit obsession is odd. Why would that make your eye twitch and your sphincter to slam shut? Fine home building has/can/will exist quite fine without permits.
Thats not his beef anyway if you go back and look ha jumped the guy for not asking for help first but now all of a sudden he's turned it into the op reply about permits. he don't know whether he's coming or going at this point.
I just keep coming back for the entertainment ;)~
Yup
Kyle the OP made those goofy comments about permits after Framer Bob jumped into the discussion and began to interrogate him with the questions, "Who designed this, and is it getting inspected?Framer Bob came on board "sportin' a 'tude," and he ain't leavin' until he gets the final word. How's the popcorn?
How's the popcorn? salty ....... like someone peed in it!
I aint been under my rock either I been standing on top of it beating my chest! :)
Heh, this is almost hard to follow....
I haven't pulled a permit in my own hometown for quite awhile. I see it as a game, a hobby... I love my local inspectors, and they me. We have a mutual understanding...
I'm gonna keep on workin' and when some deek calls you guys, come and get me, ...you better prove that someone called...And you better have a darn good problem (they have yet to have any sizeable issue) .
The county is different - I toe the line. Those guys is tough.
I take it or leave it. It's between the customer and I mostly - it aint the business of the MAN.
I'm good with workin' without the MAN most of the time, my work speaks for me either way... I've seen your work pics. It speaks for you too as far as I can see.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
thanks for the kind words sounds like were on the same page. must be an ohio thing. :)
I had a really good post - Woulda set some people on their rear.
I deleted it....
Don't thank me for realising your efforts/education/product you get it... you deserve it , you earned it.
It aint just an Ohio thing - I've met some real idiots here from Ohio. You'de be surprised how stupid and petty popular people are... Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
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You railroading, or bored?Better make sure you got track time before you use that cart!That looks like the cart I'm missing!You been in my shed??? Watch for splinters in that handle!Did I tell ya 'bout the brakes? hehehe
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You sure that will stop that cart!
guaranteed.
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He's got a double flame emitter!Now that's tricky!!!
Now that all of that "hot air" has blown by, how did the swaying structure turn out? As for sitting posts on top of sono-tubes, there IS a steel bracket just for these sort of things. They get anchor bolted to the pier, two "legs" ( sometimes even four) surround the post, with through bolts to tie the post in place. I suppose one could fabricate such a bracket from steel plates. The "brace bay" is the first "bay" from a gable end. Guy wires with a turnbuckle in each diagonal ( like an "X") keep the bay ( and the rest of the building) plumb and square. They make a regular "clip" that is through bolted to the columns at the top and bottom. This clip is where the braces get attached to. Just a little Iron worker's 101.
Hey Whitedog!Sorry Dude, the original poster was,...KylefromKy, It was him who had the questions. He may be scared away by now.He may appreciate the info tho....
I thought I'd throw it out there in case Kyle sneaks back in here. Plus anybody else who MIGHT want to try a pole barn/trailer shelter sort of thing.
Now I see..
From:
whitedogstr8leg <!----><!---->
4:00 pm
To:
plumber_bob <!----><!---->unread
(170 of 170)
122715.170 in reply to 122715.169
Now that all of that "hot air" has blown by
From:
plumber_bob <!----><!---->
5:05 pm
To:
whitedogstr8leg <!----><!---->
(171 of 173)
122715.171 in reply to 122715.170
He may be scared away by now.
Seems like the "hot air" is still here with you two. Can't let it go, huh?
From:
whitedogstr8leg <!----><!---->
5:37 pm
To:
plumber_bob <!----><!---->
(172 of 173)
122715.172 in reply to 122715.171
I thought I'd throw it out there in case Kyle sneaks back in here. Plus anybody else who MIGHT want to try a pole barn/trailer shelter sort of thing.
Now they will know that they should learn how to build it right BEFORE they build it and it sways back and forth.Joe Carola
Dude!Loosen Saddle. Remove burr!
Dude!
Loosen Saddle. Remove burr!
Joe Carola
Now, can I buy ya a drink?I promise I won't spit in it or nothin'! <humor>
Sure can. You'll love me even more.....;-)
Joe Carola
Pick yer poison,... and no more gushy stuff! Geeeezzzzz, you used the 'L' word!!! <I'm embarrassed>
I think this is a Hallmark moment.......
Joe Carola
It might not go down in history,.... but....who knows?
"It might not go down in history,.... but....who knows?"Believe you me - this thread IS historical.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Believe you me - this thread IS historical.
and, at times, hysterical!View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
Now if I can find a way to keep ME from swaying, maybe one less Guiness will do the trick? Afterall, I don't want to "tumble down" and hurt something (like me), I do want a "tumbler" though.
that message was for Kyle and Company.
This forim makes it easy to point your comments to the one you are speaking to. When you kit reply and the window comes up, look at the "To" in the grey bar near top. If you are replying to this post I am writing, the default is Piffin in the little white box. Click the drop down arrow, and you will see a list of all who have participated in this thread, as well as a few other lurkers who may be reading it a the time. Choose the one you want to adress, or if it is a eneric comment, you can choose ALL.If you want to point it at some other member, you can choose "Others" but you do need to know the exact spelling of their screen name.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Meanwhile, the answer is swaying in the Wind....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Meanwhile, the answer is swaying in the Wind....
Pifffin,
You've always been a trouble maker.......I'm going to have to let Joey wrestle you some day........;-)
Joe Carola
How long do I have go get in shape again?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
How long do I have go get in shape again?
;)
I don't know. Tell me what you think after you watch him escape from the bottom.......;-)
Joe Carola
Kid needs to learn to utilize the "Dreaded Claw" Now that's a real good rasslin move.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
I bought him a wrestling throwing dummy. That's all he does is throw it. It's only 33lbs, but it feels heavier. Joey's around 70lbs now.
http://www.cuvo.com/dummies/freestyle.html
Joe Carola
Yea I've seen those. Thought about getting one and keeping it by the back door so when I lose arguments (when don't I?) with the wife, I can walk out the back door and throw it around for awhile. It would make me feel better anyway. LOL
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
Have you ever seen one of these dudes? Bulgarian training bag. I made one out of a truck inner tube, and use it on shoulder day. You can buy them on line as well. Great rotational strength workout. Lots of amatuer wrestlers train with them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYZuH8kkV60&feature=related
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
Pretty sweet. Kind of expensive, I like this guy's approach.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il8rU0H-9ps&feature=related
Yep that's the video that inspired me to make my own. I'l post a pic of it later if you want.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
I just got back from town with my inner tube and sand. Any idea what weight your supposed to start with?
Mine is 30 pounds exactly. On another forum I hang out at some guys made these and I think that was what they decided was the optimal weight. They have a section that's all about home made workout gear. I can Email you the link if your interested.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
Yeah, that would be cool. I've been trying to figure out a bench for situps I can
sling out of the way, maybe they will have some ideas. Send it here- [email protected]
Yeah they have all kinds of that stuff. I'll send it too you in a minute. I just went out and snapped a pic of my BTB. I keep it in the back of the Jeep all the time so I can take it in the gym with me. When I'm done with weights I use it as a finisher to get a a good grind on my muscles.
I added rope handles to mine one day when I was bored. They make it a little nicer, but they are not a must have deal.
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"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
Thanks again. I just finished mine. That's a pretty good work out!
Not a problem. I love talking about that kind of stuff.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
Gunner,
Never seen that before. Thanks for that, I just showed my son. It looks like Jack Cuvo makes it. Same guy to make the throwing dummy.
I think I'm going to grab my sons hands and feet a swing him around for practice.......;-)Joe Carola
"I think I'm going to grab my sons hands and feet a swing him around for practice."
That's what they are good for.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
I might be able to use him as a jumprope......;-)
Joe Carola
You sound like me and Plumber Bob when we were kids. He used to use me as a jump rope, a hammer, a kickball. You name it I was it. Wish I would have had a little brother to workout on.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
I'm having alot of fun with Joey. He's 70lbs right now just turned 11. Everyone in the family has a bet that on his 16th b-day he will kick my a$$. I told everyone I will still bust him up. My wife thinks I'm a moron. and says that she can't wait til he throws me on my head.
He has the MMA gloves and hits pretty hard. Lot of fun that I never had growing up without my father. He died when I was 5 so I cherish every second with my son no matter if we're beating eachother up or he's laying across my chest while watching the TV.
Joe Carola
My Dad is going on 75 and I'd think twice before locking up with him. Man he used to be rough. In my 20's we would still rassle and he would always pull off some trecherous old man move.
I remember one time I was visiting and we were all getting ready to walk out the door to go some place and I ambushed him off the top of the stairs. Of course he was always a dirty cheating hair puller and it didn't take him long to use that to his advantage. Mom just happened to be walking back in the door to see what was taking us so long when she caught him getting ready to pile drive my on the living room floor. She screamed at him real loud. I guess he decided he didn't want me moping around in a neck brace for six months so he let me go. LOL
Your smart enough to soak it all up like we did. Horse play and goofing around together was always big in our house. We used to have some classic water fights in the summer too.
I still tell both my parents I love them each and every time we talk.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
http://tinyurl.com/Soldier-Hard-Walk-With-Me
Sounds like a good time for an undate. I take it your grip strength has returned?
Sounds like a good time for an undate. I take it your grip strength has returned?
I can squeeze 140lbs right now. I still can't make a complete fist on my own without bending my fingers. It takes about 5 minutes before I can make a fist bending them. I tape them into a fist at night before I go to bed. It's still frustrating right now, but I don't complain compared to the people who actually cut their fingers off. Appreciate you asking.
Joe Carola
Keep your spirits up, the human body is amazing. I get such a kick out of looking at the way my finger re-built itself after I took the end off with a circular saw. It was almost worth it to watch it re-grow. Almost.
Was getting already to brag, "Hey cool - looka me! I downloaded a MOVIE!"But the real player wants a upgrade, but after downloading and installing that, still nogo.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The cables did the trick. It's pretty stiff, now.
Thanks.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
You are most welcome. Come here anytime if you have any more "problems".
I've had chili like that.
You think his comments in this thread are an obsession?Then don't ask him about unauthorized dumpster use.
Barry E-Remodeler
You think his comments in this thread are an obsession?
Then don't ask him about unauthorized dumpster use.
What's up Barry? You want to keep stirring the pot? You still have a problem with me from a few years ago? Do you want to join these few nobodies that crawled out from underneath their rocks?
Joe Carola
Joe,Had no problem then, have none now... it was said in jestI agree with your points, but your delivery needs workdo you ever take time out from the crusades to just smile and enjoy the show?I thing your chain needs a stronger springcarry on, I like your passion for our industry
Edited 8/17/2009 9:22 pm by BarryE
<What's up Barry? You want to keep stirring the pot? You still have a problem with me from a few years ago? Do you want to join these few nobodies that crawled out from underneath their rocks?>Oh the arrogance ... coming from the Great Big Apple ... I guess I didn't know that Farmer Joe was a "SOMEBODY" here in BreakTime land ... and the rest of us "nobodies" live under rocks ... oh the arrogance ...
Edited 8/17/2009 10:25 pm ET by Pixburd
and the rest of us "nobodies" live under rocks ...
You got that right.
Joe Carola
Now this was a well worded way of saying what you are thinking without insulting and more likely to be heard. Good job Joe!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Now this was a well worded way of saying what you are thinking without insulting and more likely to be heard. Good job Joe!
Thanks Piffin. I was wonder why you posted what you did in post #58 and #60.
Joe Carola
Joe,
Non professional lurker DIY with a few posts here. I want to back you up on this for what it's worth. I think your critics keep missing your essential point. It's not whether some parts of the country require permits or not, but that the OP said he doesn't care if there are any and that he would disregard them if there were. I've been here a long time and am in a highly regulated business, medicine, and I appreciate your concerns about dabblers, such as myself sometimes in your field, getting in over their heads then asking for help to get out of the jam.I built a "pole barn" like the OP but buried the base of my poles here in FL. I like the look of his structure and for the most part he did good work, but when asking for advice "fait accompli" I think his skin should have been a little thicker.
It's not whether some parts of the country require permits or not, but that the OP said he doesn't care if there are any and that he would disregard them if there were.
That's what everyone here doesn't seem to care about. I asked the OP if he needed drawings, permits and inspections from the start. He didn't answer until that last post. I said that if he didn't need anythjing to keep doing what he's doing and just make sure what he builds is structurally sound before he builds it
The guy admitted that he never asked and does not care to ask or whether he's building illegally or not. What kind of message does that send to anyone on this Fine Homebuilding forum? If anyone here backs him up for that, what could I say.
and I appreciate your concerns about dabblers, such as myself sometimes in your field, getting in over their heads then asking for help to get out of the jam.
I just don't understand how people just build something without asking/checking to make sure that what their doing is right. If I'm going to tackle something I've never done before, I will ask first before I attempt to do it.
Joe Carola
I just don't understand how people just build something without asking/checking to make sure that what their doing is right. If I'm going to tackle something I've never done before, I will ask first before I attempt to do it.
My wife's ex and the guy I used to work with took pride in finding their own way to do things! No matter how juryrigged or obviously screwed up the result was. Wife's ex was into Taoism and after I watched him "fit" a door into heartwood redwood casing he had paid an arm and a leg for by taking a belt sander with like 40 grit paper to the casing where the door rubbed and chowing out about a half inch of beautiful wood, he stood back to admire his work and said, "Am I on the Tao, or what?" I just had to turn away.
It's one thing when the result of such behavior is just esthetically unpleasant, but quite another when it results in a potentially dangerous situation. Oh well. I guess everyone is bored with this topic, so we can move on. "Nothin' ta see here, keep it moving," said in me foinest Irish brogue, lads.
Don't let Joe dissuade you from asking more in the future. He really has helped a lot of people figure stuff out. He just obsesses over a couple points now and then.Meanwhile, there are still two things I see should happen there.One is to get some sort of bright coloured neon flagging tape to make those cable visible before somebody gets hurt walking or running into them. I still remember getting hung-strung clotheslined across my throat when I was about 12.The other is structural. I believe it was mentioned above, but I don't see it in place yet.
That is diag bracing in the roof structure. Maybe that is small enough that the plywood provides enough shear resistence, but keep in mind that with something open like this, you have a sail up there when the wind blows, so give another though to how it is tied down too.On permits - most of my life has been working in areas where none are required for structural, but it would be wise for you to check if they are required or not. Typical fines for non-compliance is $100/day and it is not uncommon to see a building razed because of non-compliance. if you are doing this professionally, the courts assume that you must adhere to minimal professional standards, so they could easily award your client remunerative damages plus penalties, meaning that you would be in debt for many years to come simply because of not checking ahead of time. That is similar to the point Joe was making rudely, that if a structure you build falls and hurts someone, YOU would be the one responsible for the costs at least. It is a principle as old as the oldest laws in the world - back in the days of Hammurabi and the Bible and the Egyptians if a builder erected something so as to allow it to fall and cause injury or death, he was to be put to death himself. I recall reading of a Chinese builder who was put in prison for the rest of his life for poor design.We are a bit more easy on folks in this country, but the principle has merit.
Words to the wise.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry for the delay in my response, but thanks for your reply.
I appreciate your concern and advice. The cables have done a great job stiffening the structure, but I'll look into adding some diagonal bracing in the roof just to be sure.
As for liability, I'm building just for myself, not a client, but I appreciate the information just the same!
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
I like the cable idea.... they'll be easier than wood to remove when it comes to wiggling the camper out of there. ...good thing you're in KY with no snow. Those 2x6 rafters would snap around here.Scott.
Thanks. I thought so too.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
I thought that was the purpose of the website - to ask for advice.
I see you edited your post and took out the part about you asking me if someone was pissing in my cornflakes.
People can come here and ask advice, the problem with people like you and others is that you're asking advice about something you did illegally, and now you want to fix your building when you should've had it designed the right way and filed for permits and got the proper inspections. That's the advice the professionals her should be giving you.
Joe Carola
geez joe give the guy a brake will ya? I was wondering as i was reading who pissed in your cherios too? and was going to ask but see he already did :)~
any how he maylive where permits and inspections are not required as is most rural areas in america believe it or not.
and why bust his balls after he's already been helped and posted a thank you.
get over yourself huh?
geez joe give the guy a brake will ya?
Why give someone a break who builds a building FIRST who has no knowledge of how to design it, and when it's up it's swaying back and forth? These people who do this have a clear head and no common sense. If he wants to play Architect and design a building, he HAS to make sure it's structurally sound BEFORE he builds it right and it falls down and kills someone, right?
any how he maylive where permits and inspections are not required as is most rural areas in america believe it or not.
Alright, he never answered if he does or not. Let's say he doesn't , I'll say the same thing as I just said above. Why build something first when you have no idea whether it's structurally sound and then try to fix it instead of asking BEFORE you built it? Does that make sense to you? If it does, your just as foolish as he is.
If he does need permits and inspections, he even a bigger fool and should have to fix it according to code. Do you agree with that, or are you still on his side doing things illegally?
and why bust his balls after he's already been helped and posted a thank you.
Why not? Why should people build something who have no idea how to build it and then watch it sway back and forth maybe even falling down. Are you going to sugar coat things for these people and tell them that what they did is alright? It's not alright to build something like that winging it and then when it's built, now they worry.
get over yourself huh?
Get over myself because I think that people who have no idea how to build something, build it an now it's ready to fall down, should keep doing this? If you think that this is alright, you're a bozo just like the DIY'ers who do stupid stuff like this.
Joe Carola
Boy, Joe, you must be really smart. I bet you always learn how to do things right the first time. I bet you've never made a mistake in your life, right? And because of this, I bet you've never posted anything to a web forum asking for help, right? I bet your skill and knowledge is so vast that you've never even thought about altering anything you've ever built....As for the rest of us mere mortals, please remember that what prompted the OP's post was some help with "doing it right". That's generally what web forums are for.Scott.
Boy, Joe, you must be really smart.
Smart enough not to be a homeowner and build a building first that will fall down and then ask how to do it right afterwards. That's just stupid.
I bet you always learn how to do things right the first time.
No, just never built a building first without any knowledge of how to build a building. Always build from Architects plans.
I bet you've never made a mistake in your life, right?
Made plenty of mistakes, but never built a building before I knew how. Always follow Architects plans.
And because of this, I bet you've never posted anything to a web forum asking for help, right?
Yes, I have. Never built a building without following Architects plans.
I bet your skill and knowledge is so vast that you've never even thought about altering anything you've ever built....
I frame according to Architect plans. I don't alter anything unless I didn't follow the plans and made a mistake.
please remember that what prompted the OP's post was some help with "doing it right".
Yes, having no common sense and asking to do it right BEFORE you build, not after you build. That's not normal. You don't guess at building something and build first and then ask questions.
Anyone with half a brain doesn't build something first who has no idea how to build and then asks how to make it right and structurally sound. You obviously aren't a contractor. I've been a framer for over 25 years and I would've never framed that without an Architect looking at it first. So yes, I will never build first without any knowledge of building and then try and fix it.
Maybe I can come over your house and act like a dentist give you a Root Canal and f##k up your whole mouth and go on a dentist forum and ask how to fix it.
Joe Carola
I don't see how you can even work, carring a chip that big on your shoulders. A person comes here asking for advise to correct a mistake they make and all that you can think of is to call him STUPID! Seems I've worked around your type before. They go from contractor to contractor, always seem to know more than the boss ( and tells EVERYBODY that one) until it's no longer a way to do business. Then you just quit that contractor, go bother another one, and so on. Yep, this forum is not for you. You do not have the attitude to help, teach and MENTOR others so that they can be as good as YOU think you are. Until that happens.......
A person comes here asking for advise to correct a mistake they make and all that you can think of is to call him STUPID!
I said that you building something and have no idea how to build that was not structurally sound was stupid. Asking how to fix it isn't stupid. I still stand by that. You or anyone else who builds something that's not structurally sound that can fall down, I will still say is stupid. It's that simple.
I'll say it slowly for the challenged.
You don't build a building without knowing how to build one and then ask how to fix it and do it right. Ask how to build the building first, not after.
As far as the you asking how to fix it, yes you were told some ways how to fix it, but you should also be be told that you shouldn't have built it first without asking. Maybe someone else will listen.
I don't care if I hurt your feelings. I care about the person who will listen and build the right way so that no one gets hurt. That's what I care about, people getting hurt, or a building collapsing. That's my nasty way of getting through.
You ask before, I'm more than happy to help. I've done it many, many times and still do it. As far as teaching, I'm very good at that, never had any complaints.
I see you avoided the question again. Have balls enough to answer. Do you need drawings, permits and inspections? Or are you winging it and doing it illegally?
Joe Carola
Edited 8/14/2009 9:05 am ET by Framer
Joe,
You're a great participant in this forum. In the past, you've always treated everyone with dignity and respect. I think it's time to step away from this thread. This is a dead horse, let's stop beating it. The Terms of Use are very clear on personal insults.
Thank you.
Greg
If I can offer an opinion.
I can absolutely see where Joe is coming from, though i don't necessarily agree with the tone of his message. It can be frustrating as a professional in a business to come upon someone who has decided he could do something himself as well as I can when it has taken me alot of years to get to the skill level I'm at.
I've had this arguement before with a few friends who have asked for advice on "fixing" something that they've diy'd. In my mind, there are some things, or people, who, regardless of what they think, cannot "take their time and it will come out as good as if I paid someone to do it". On the other hand, some people have enough natural ability to do a great job of things.....
Having said all that, the op came here innocently enough trying to get some good advice as to how to stiffen up a structure that was already up. How he came upon the design is unknown. Maybe he's driven by a structure like that that had the posts buried in the ground, thus eliminating the need for diagonal bracing. The structure looks pretty well built, not something some hack weekender threw up. So....he didn't necessarily know as much as he thought he did. I've certainly been guilty of that a few times. I don't see the need to be nasty to a guy who is looking for advice, albeit a little late..:) I'm thinking it might have been a better tack to say, " Would have been better if you asked before you started, but since you're here....."
As far as the permit/ inspection thing goes, it's a moot point. We both know that there are plenty of places where it's not required, and plenty of places where a structure like this would get little more than a glance, and plenty of building inspectors who would lok at a plan that's exactly the way it was built, and say "I want collar ties a third of the way down, and two more bolts in each brace" because they're as clueless as the op about lateral bracing...........
The guy didn't take on a 5000 square foot house as gc with no experience, and then come here asking why nothing was done right, and how to fix it. He built a roof over a camper. And....learned that there was a little more to it than he thought. Give him a break. And don't get yourself in trouble over it...:)
my .02
Bing
From:
Framer <!----><!---->
Aug-14 3:36 am
To:
whitedogstr8leg <!----><!---->
(34 of 79)
122715.34 in reply to 122715.33
A person comes here asking for advise to correct a mistake they make and all that you can think of is to call him STUPID!
I said that you building something and have no idea how to build that was not structurally sound was stupid. Asking how to fix it isn't stupid. I still stand by that. You or anyone else who builds something that's not structurally sound that can fall down, I will still say is stupid. It's that simple.
I'll say it slowly for the challenged.
You don't build a building without knowing how to build one and then ask how to fix it and do it right. Ask how to build the building first, not after.
As far as the you asking how to fix it, yes you were told some ways how to fix it, but you should also be be told that you shouldn't have built it first without asking. Maybe someone else will listen.
I don't care if I hurt your feelings. I care about the person who will listen and build the right way so that no one gets hurt. That's what I care about, people getting hurt, or a building collapsing. That's my nasty way of getting through.
You ask before, I'm more than happy to help. I've done it many, many times and still do it. As far as teaching, I'm very good at that, never had any complaints.
I see you avoided the question again. Have balls enough to answer. Do you need drawings, permits and inspections? Or are you winging it and doing it illegally?
Joe Carola
sorry joe but you really don't know who you are talking to or what you talking about! guess your are confused!
This might help... Reading comprehension [1 new of 98]Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Me-thinks it is about time to move along. This has been fun, but time for other things to be done. I'm about 100 miles NORTH of the Ohio river. I don't think the OP and i are even "Kin". As for Joe, well, he has his agenda, I have mine. A "brace bay" on any structure will help keep it from swaying. Brace rods in the bay are on both walls and between the tops of the wall columns. You want just enough tension to keep the bay plumb and square. The rest of the structure will follow the brace bay's "lead" and stay stable. Brace bays are usually found in the first "bay' on a gable end.
where at 100 miles north? I'm in chillicothe and work in columbus mostly.
South west corner of Logan County, Ohio. About halfway between Indian Lake and Kaiser Lake. Didn't the Cowsills sing about Indian Lake back in the 60s?
Hey neighbor!
I'm on the Montgomery/Greene county line.
whatever dude!
I know what I am and what I'm about
and as far as I'm concerned this is still america,(land of the free?)
and it was his money so why should you care if he built something for himself and it falls down?
maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.
Goodnight.
whatever dude!
What are you 10?
I know what I am and what I'm about
You're just another dopey homeowner that thinks he knows how to build something when he don't and then build it anyway before making sure it's structurally sound. Now come on the Internet to get free advice and fix it.
No common sense. Ask first before you build!!!
and it was his money so why should you care if he built something for himself and it falls down?
Unlike yourself I wouldn't want to here about anyone being stupid enough to build something that would fall down and hurt someone. I do care if this guy or someone else got hurt because of his stupidity. Maybe someone else who reads this forum will ASK FIRST before they build to make sure that what they are building doesn't fall down. Common sense, right? Forgot, you don't have any either.
maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.
I feel just fine. Me insulting someone who does something stupid like build a building that can fall down doesn't bother me at all. Maybe they will think the next time.
Joe Carola
Edited 8/14/2009 9:02 am ET by Framer
Hey Joe, heads up..we have 6 new mods and they can and will have you in hot water for personal insults, like calling someone an idiot. You may wanna edit some of that, or you may get a wrist slap or T.O.Just saying.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Thanks Sphere.
Joe Carola
Edited 8/14/2009 9:06 am ET by Framer
Framer you made very valid points. The anger that comes thru in this thread undermines the value of your opinion. We all learn from our mistakes and perhaps this poster will learn from this project.
Just to be clear there are millions of homes garages sheds etc built by both professionals and non- pros alike all across this country without an archi or engineer involved and yet there aren't millions of structures falling down or even in danger of falling down.
80% of the homes built in my area NEVER have an archi or engineer involved. The GCs in this area often draw their own elevations others get them from a draftsman who I can assure you isn't a license engineer or archi. They frame based on their experience. Their is no legal requirement that you have archi or engineer drawn plans only that they meet code.
At the same time, there are plenty of structure failures in the US that have been designed and built to Archi and Engineer specs. Neither method is inherently bad nor automatically good.
This discussion made me think of something I saw in our local paper.
Inspired by Huck Finn, two teenagers spent a couple of days building a raft out of driftwood and are circumnavigating nearby Salt Spring Island. No permits, no architect.
<<<Inspired by Huck Finn, two teenagers spent a couple of days building a raft out of driftwood and are circumnavigating nearby Salt Spring Island. No permits, no architect.>>>
Not Coast Guard inspected and approved? No good housekeeping seal? Underwriters lab no where to be found? Not even Mr. Goodwrench?
BTW, if you asked Mr. Goodwrench, he would tell you everybody should have a $60 oil change not the $30 one at Jiffy lube or the $15 at home one. Makes me wonder how in the world this country survived with all those non-archi designed log cabins. What on earth were those people thinking trying to keep their familys warm and dry? Don't they realize they all could have been killed?
One of my cherished memories comes from watching my neighbour change his oil. As the black liquid filled the pan, he lay under the truck checking various hoses and pipes. A look of puzzlement appeared on his face as his trouble light dimmed. He was inadvertently holding it under the stream of oil and the cover quickly filled with smoking black goo. Things went downhill from there. He didn't see the humor in the situation or appreciate my reaction.
Its often been said that the difference between a professional and an amatuer is the professional hides his mistakes and doesn't talk about them.
My Goodwrench oil changes run 29.95, same as at Jiffylube, and the waiting room is cleaner and has a bigger TV
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>>Inspired by Huck Finn, two teenagers spent a couple of days building a raft out of driftwood and are circumnavigating nearby Salt Spring Island. No permits, no architect.Really? Cool. I hadn't seen anything on CBC - BC's site. Hope they didn't get spanked by those storms lately.Scott.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_south/saltspringislanddriftwood/news/Boys_circumnavigate_island_Huck_Finn_style.html
>>>His son’s motivation is actually much less noble: a $100 prize from Doug if he makes it.LOL. I hope he does.
I agree 100%...
I'm with Sphere. Calling him an idiot was out of line.
Never get into fights with ugly people. They have nothing to lose.
Take it easy Joe.Not all of us are subject to permits and inspections.and we all have to start someplace
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well a can o' worms eh?
I was at a Cottage designed by an archy. It was his first build. No permits needed.
2 storey built on piers set into bedrock. It swayed like a old boat in high waves. Especially when two or 3 kids were screaming around. I mentioned this to the HO.
She replied that it has always swayed and it drove her nuts but the arthcy said it was with in normal amounts. I used to work a a junior draftsman and she asked me what I would do?
So I crawled under the cottage and saw there was no diagonals at all. So I grabbed a couple pieces of rope and tied off a couple spots. She noticed a slight improvment. So a couple days later her husband showed up and she was flapping around about how I helped the situation.
Hubby went and got a bunch of SS aircraft cable anchors and misc hardware. He tied all the Floor joists to the piers with diagonals and now it was stiff.
So don't feel bad even the guys with all the training make mistakes. Nothing like real experiance to make all those #s work.
A barrel of worms, more like.
Thanks for your reply.
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."
122715.131
Word to the wise.
"All he wanted was some beer. And they shot him in the face." Wilma to Two Puff Johnny on a train bound for CrazyLegs Fest.
You're right.