Contemplating details of an upcoming DIY project – plumbing details:
Couple questions I have:
I’ve been told (and can understand why) newer ball-type water supply line shut-off valves are a better choice than the older style stem-and-seat type valves. I’d used the former style before with no issues, taking the stem and seat assemblies out before sweating the joints once everything had been dry-fitted and solder-prepped.
Question 1: sweating these new ball-type valves doesn’t risk damage to the internal plastic seals that surround the ball component?
Looking at them I can’t see how they can be disassembled prior to soldering joints.
Existing shower & bath supply lines are 1/2″ rigid copper. Existing shut-off valves are up above the floor level inside the plumbing chase between shower and bath walls on either side. I can see ’em thru a cut-out in the floor when I’m in the basement…. Fortunately the shower backs onto the bath wall so removing the (fiberglass) shower stall’s upper section for access allows me to get to the bath’s valve without disturbing the ceramic tile finish in the wife’s bathroom.
My intent is to relocate new shut-offs in the supply lines under the subfloor where they’d be easier to access going forward.
(Somewhat unrelated) question 2:
Gonna change out hose bibs once the weather warms. Got fixtures that incorporate vacuum breakers per requirement here where the house is located. Want to include captive air chambers to reduce potential for ‘water hammer’ when bib valve is closed.
Currently the existing bibs penetrate rim joists between floor joists. Instructions suggest mounting new bibs with a downward pitch for proper drainage.
What with the proximity of the subfloor above leaving no more than at best 3″ of clearance, will captive air chambers still be effective if placed at the end of a vertical “U-tube” off a T where the bibs are attached to their supply lines?
Supplies are 1/2″ rigid copper so I was thinking that increasing the chambers to 1″ diameter, 8″ long would be worthwhile.
Only risk I see is draining – short of drilling a hole in the U-tube – should that ever be necessary.
Hints / tips / suggestions welcome.
Replies
Re the ball valves, I'm far from being a pro, but I've installed them, sweat-soldering, with no difficulty (they're still fine 20 years later). The main thing is to remember to solder the valves with them OPEN ("turned on"). This confines the ball inside the globe that it swivels in so that plastic seal doesn't develop a ridge where it was half-open while being heated.
Of course, you can always use SharkBite fittings if you're still terribly nervous about it.
Thanks Dan...
DanH wrote:Of course, you can always use SharkBite fittings if you're still terribly nervous about it.
...good tip on the open-valve-before-sweating. I'm comfortable with copper up to 1", it's the plastic bits I worry about with soldering valves.
SharkBite stuff's no less costly than copper it seems. Having never used it (didn't know it existed until last fall!) I'm still leery of the technology even if it's in an accessable location. Still a bit of Luddite in me somewhere I guess.
A lot of plumbers now are using crimp connectors. Cheaper than SharkBite and no mucking around with soldering.
But I'm a fellow Luddite. I still use a "flip phone", even though I program iPhones for a living.
You must value sound quality
You must value conversation sound quality over web video baubles.
I thought I was the only one.
It's not a sound quality thing -- it's just that I never know which button to push. (That and the fact that I'm a cheap SOB and my cell service would go up at least $50/month if I got smart phones.)
Dumb Phone
I recharge my phone plan every year for $100. I have minutes left after a year.
So you wont be getting this one?
Guess you want be standing in line to get one of these then huh?
this one weirds me out!
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/131460-the-cicret-smart-bracelet-puts-a-touch-controlled-projector-on-your-arm-move-over-google-glass
Another Aspect...
- of a 'flip-phone' is security: they're far less likely to be hacked.
I 'moved on' to a smartphone with my first IPhone (being a long-standing Mac fanboy) now would find it hard to revert if for no other reason than the darn push keys are so small & my fingers aren't real well suited to that kind of 'resolution.'
Back on topic - would welcome insights on question re: water hammer preventer installation I described.
Re water hammer, don't bother with a vertical stub on a tee -- they get waterlogged quite rapidly. If you install something, make it a purpose-built hammer arrester. (One advantage of these is that they need not be vertical.)
Take a look at Republic Wireless.
I used to be on Verizon, three flip phones and a smart phone for my daughter. Something absurd like $170 a month if I remember.
A while ago I looked at Republic. Then stopped looking. The looked again. Maybe a year ago I quit dragging my heels and changed over to Republic. We've had great success with the phones. I'm not a smart phone freak. I use it for occasional calls, texting, navigation, looking stuff up when I'm out of the house. I've streamed video when away from home, but not too often. But when I did it worked fine. I'm on a $25/month plan. Unlimited 3G. With 3G I have no problems with anything, I even checked it out streaming and it flows Netflix with no issues.
If you're a streaming freak, for $45 a month you get unlimited 4G. But for me the 3G works just fine. No buffering issues. But I'm really not a bandwidth hog.
The difference with Republic is their phones are geared towards Wifi, if Wifi is not available then it uses cell data. It reduces cellular bandwidth use and thus the reduced plan cost. Transitioning from one to another is automatic. You can be talking on the phone at home with wifi, leave your house and your phone will seemlessly transition the phone call to cell data. No dropped call, No clicking. Works well.
We have a mix of MotoGs and MotoXs, I have the X. They have newer phones available. I really like the X. Good display, good sound, etc. Andriod works fine for me. We have a mix of macs and pcs in the house.
Do understand you buy the phone from Republic, and they have a sort of proprietary operating system on the phone, so you couldn't for example take a Republic phone and switch it to Sprint or Verizon. But if you're like me? You won't want to.
An added benefit, though I never use it? You can change your plan via a couple of keystrokes on your phone, and you can change your plan up to twice a month. When I signed up they had a:
$5 a month plan; unlimited talk, text, data over Wifi. Essentially a smart phone whenever you're around wifi but a brick if your not.
$10 a month for unlimited talk/text over wifi or cell, and unlimited data over wifi. So you have a full smart phone when you have a wifi signal, and a dump phone (talk/text only) over cell.
The $25 and $45 are what I wrote earlier, unlimited call/text/data over either 3G or 4G respectively.
Switching plans? I pretty much stay on the $25 plan. My son was travelling last year and would go on the $25 plan when on the road, when he got to his destination where he was staying for a couple of months, they had wifi but poor cell coverage. He changed to the $5 plan and had a fully functioning smart phone for pennies a day.
My sales pitch is over. lol
Edit: Big Cal, feel free to delete this if you think it's too spam-a-licious. I mean, I'm not promoting kichen cabinets in Oxfordshire, so it should be okay, right? lol
No problem from me
I know you. You speak English well.
Seem to be shying away from a game of shoes, but as far as I'm concerned, a straight up human being.
ha!
The gauntlet has been thrown down!
I used to be a straight-up human being. But these days with my bad back? Not so much anymore.
Start thinking of excuses
the Beckmans are hosting this year, Ft. Wayne Indiana.
dont think they have enough room for shoes, so no worrying about that.
or
since Joyce is the route maker I wouldnt be surprised if one of these days that touring coach of ours shows up in your drive. She's got us driving and putting in southern Alabama mid March .
I know some folks in Indiana are poor, but no shoes?
(Or are you just saying that they're Japanese and you have to leave the shoes outside?)
Does Rich have a hallway in his house?
If so, then these could work...http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Sports-Rubber-Horseshoe-Set/dp/B000LHWPJQ
Jim
well, even if they did........
it's the missus....s. house too.
I pay about $100 a YEAR for my tracfone smartfone. I'ts low end, but handy. Plenty of minutes, text, and data for me, but I'm a light user.
I have used dozens of ball valves & stops and have never had an issue sweating them. They are always open fully when I do solder them.
open sez-a-dan
Yup, what Dan said. Make sure the valve is open when you solder it.
Use a Good Torch
The key to sweating valves isto use a good torch.That is, one that will very quickly heat the work area. The longer you apply heat, the more heat will travel into the restof the fitting, possibly harming other parts.
This means: Forget about the $8 propane pencil tip torch you've had forever. No, the proper torch will have a fat head, a big flame, and attach to a MAPP gas bottle. It will burn the MAPP gas without making soot.
Better yet is an acetylene torch, but I don't expect homeowners to have those.
Side note: It always amazes me when I go to a "home center," where I will see dozens of propane torches offered. This amazes me, because at the plumbing house, they will have ONE torch available - the good one. One that has the striker built-in, has a big flame, and can operate in any position - even upside-down. Pro houses don't waste space on stuff that doesn't work.
Good points...
I'd forgotten the MAPP torch I have. Came with a bottle of oxygen too & the proper hoses to connect both to it.
Have an acetylene torch too but let the bottles go back to the gas service 30+ years ago after a career change. By now I'd need new hoses too (mice'll eat rubber but not steel & brass though the brass'll turn kinda greenish in spots) as well as new bottles.
This project's not worth the expense for all that.
As for the factory-made hammer arrestors:
So if I feed the new hose bib's from a T off its side port, down low enough for the arrestor(s) to clear the subfloor, they'd still work as intended? Major water column's in line with them that way, the bib valve's at a right angle (with a couple of 45's in between) a short distance away.