Switching from 3 tab to laminate shingle
blownonfuel
| Posted in General Discussion on
I was hoping you guys could fill me in on what i should look for in asphalt/fiberglass shingles. I currently have 3 tab on the house right now but moma does not like them. Since I’ll be putting new shingles on the new addition anyway I’ll be switching over to laminate shingles.
I was looking at some at a big box store and see that they carry 3 different levels of quality, a 70,110,130 mph wind rating.
What do you guys recommend? I am in central Texas if that helps any.
Replies
The best you can afford.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
If you go with the 130mph rated stuff, make sure that it is approved in the neighboring county 'cause that's where your house will be after a wind storm that fierce. :)
That's a good one Bruce.
I'm just a DIY guy, but due to the Texas hailstorm of April 17th, 2008, and oil at $140 a barrel, plus considering the downward spin of the economy, I went back with the best I could afford/find...
My home's thirry-five squares of 30 yr. ELK brand Arch. shingle roof was 14yr. old, and the outside shed's fifteen squares of roof was a Owens Corning 30 yr. Arch. shingle that was just 90 days old. Both were pelted with 30 minutes of golf ball size hail, and were reviewed and replaced by the insurance company. What I saw on the ELK shingle was that 14 yr. ago the roofing company's crew used just 3/4"-1" nails as I was at work when it was done. The back side of the low 3/12 pitch ranchstyle home faced South. I believe that only because of ELK's ability to stick down like the shingles were glued, was the only reason that poor roof job lasted as long as it did... Currently, GAF bought ELK a few years back, so it's listed as GAF/ELK.
The 50 yr. old 1x8 tongue and groove Pine decking needed help as it was never rotted, but it had knots gone, space between the t&g, and some boards were split due to windstorms, hail and 6 or 7 roofings. With help and info from this forum, I had a Bonded company remove even the first tar paper layer, down to the original decking, then overlaid it with 1/2" plywood before adding a new roof..
I went with Armor Shield II, a GAF/ELK product and 30lb. felt. This shingle has a lifetime warranty, and I got the roofing company to add in GAF's middle warranty for free by using GAF's starter shingle, their Ice and Water Shield, and their Ridge vent... This shingle and it's Impact Resistant rating is made differently. Instead of four bundles per square, like most 40yr-Lifetime shingles have, this one has three bundles, which makes it weigh less and with the added weight of the new plywood decking overlay, less is better. Yet, it STILL qualifies me for a $380 discount each year off my Homeowners Insurance.
Learning from real roofing company JERKS, I had the contract written, not just their words or promises, so all valleys had Ice and Water Shield, and new metal under the new felt and shingles. Also, all vents, patio roof transition, and the chimney were written to have Ice and Water shield down before the felt was rolled out.
At the time, having the Armor Shield II, 30lb. felt, and ridge vent installed, cost $31 a square more ($201/sq) than a 30yr Arch. shingle, but I'll have the difference paid for in less than 4 years with the lower Homeowner policy and still get the discount for the future.
Lastly, I had GAF ridge vent installed and took out the four 12" turbines. The only thing I'd change to this would be to have Hardware Cloth, in Texas we call it hailscreen, install over the ridge gap opening before adding the ridge vent and GAF's special ridge shingles. Why? Just for piece of mind, the ridge vent is black plastic that a squirrel might chew through and get into the attic.
If you could wait for the Spring storms to pass, just in case damage occurs and the Insurance Company might help pay, and can afford the upgrade, it might be the last roof you and your insurance company may put on. Currently, I'm hearing some Insurance companies are repair/replacing just shingles instead of whole roofs.....
Considering the rough and scary economic days approaching, I'm so glad I did what I did!!
Bill
Edited 3/9/2009 11:14 pm ET by BilljustBill
Thanks Bill, that is some great information. I did not even think of the insurance savings. I'll be on the phone with my agents tomorrow.
You're welcome.
I'd be interested as to what Armor Shield II costs to install now, compared to the bid I got back in May-June of '08. Please post when you find out. I'm about 200+ miles to the North of you.
The things I could tell you about the roof you THINK you're paying for and the roof you'll GET if you don't know what to look for when the crews come to do it....You've got be there when they come do your roof!!! One example was so I could get the GAF high wind rating, the GAF shingles have 6 nails each. Since the gamble shed's steep gambrel roof already had 6 nails per shingle, I had it so it was written down, and I heard the supervisor told the crew foreman the morning they started. Yet, when the Super. left, the crew foreman came directly to me, appearing to hold some official paper, and said that 4 nails is ALWAYS what they do, is that Okay?.... It took a bit of guts, but after what I'd faced in the past with JERKS for roofers, I held my ground for the 6 nail agreement, watched that they did it, and listened to the nail gun rhythm of almost "Shave and-a Hair Cut, Six Bits" for the crew on the other side of the roof I couldn't see.....;>) As they worked, I stayed out of their way, but with those slim disposable cameras, I took two rolls of pictures as they worked on my roof, called the company supervisor when shortcuts were being taken, and also gave the whole crew a grill-cooked hamburger lunch with chips and soft drinks the day before they finished as a way say thanks for the crew's good behavior and work.
Good luck and do a follow up on this forum when you know what you are going to do.
Bill
Hello Bill. I gave my Allstate agent a call and she told me there is no discount for any type of shingle. The only discount they offer is for a metal roof. I wonder if it is a regional thing?
I wondered about that as I have never heard of that!
I have State Farm... I can't say anything bad about them, and it's been 32 years.....
Might be a bargaining chip with your insurance company to keep you with them if you look into it a bit more with another Allstate or State Farm vendor...
Bill
I'll look into it. Thanks
Bill just for giggles I asked them how much the discount would be if I went to a metal roof, they said about 5% but then my house would be worth more so my premium would go up. Talk about a double edged sword.
I know you have to insure your home for a certain percentage of it's worth, so you have some control as to what the premiums are going to be.
Part of my consideration of a new roof was metal...at that time, a standing seam was going for over $800 a square... The problem was that the insurance company has an exclusion about metal roofs. It's great for reduction of rates because of the fire prevention advantages, but the exclusion had to do with dents. Even if a brand new metal roof is all dented-up with hail, with the exclusion clause, the insurance company would not replace it and would only consider any slight repairs should there be wind damage or water leakage... You'd be living with a pretty ratty looking roof for a very long time...unless the hail was jagged enough and softball size to actually beat a hole through the metal.... Here's a shot without rake or corner trims or gutters:
View Image
So, using the Armor Shield II, I still get the insurance deduction just as if it were a metal roof, but if there is really a bad hail storm, the shingles would be replaced as any other asphalt shingle... Plus, even with $201 a square, it's still not like the cost of a metal roof. Two of my outside buildings have PBR and UBR-panels that had a 25 yr. paint warranty. The insurance company allowed $700 a square for replacement, plus added the extra amount needed for new rake trim, corner cap trim, and gutter replacement.
Just remember, ANYTHING that is said, that means brand names, vent styles, roofing felt weight, ice and water shield upgrades, and promises of discounts....Have it put in writing with specifics. I even had them give me a certification with a notarized stamp that said all their vendors and employees were paid and no one would be coming back with a lien on my property because they weren't paid... I know there are some on the forum that were "ticked", as noted in their comments, when I asked about that and when the bid was for 64 squares, but the company only used 51 squares, including 15% waste....instead of letting the bid stand as the company wrongly bid!! When you are paying out just under $40,000, nobody wants to pay for things that are not used, or have to go back, years later, to deal with a hidden lien on your house because some roofing companies are crooked as a snake...
Hang in there with getting your new roof. Don't forget to consider some upgrade in roofing that is affordable, and what shortages of materials or a replacement roof will cost in the coming years...
Bill
Edited 3/10/2009 6:48 pm ET by BilljustBill
We and some of the local contractor on the Wash coast used Malarkey.
110mph rated shingles with 6 nails was the minimum
www.malarkey-rfg.com
migraine,
I would LOVE to use the Malarkey shingle here-- and have tried to source it for years--- but they won't distribute into Ohio--in fact they won't even return phone calls or Emails!
stephen
I would recommend the 30 year laminate shingle. Without fail we have the annual hail storm and they destroy the roofs in the area they hit. The 30 year will perform well and will last as long as the 40, 50 and lifetime shingles in the central Texas heat and storms.
I have done some cost benefit analysis on higher grade singles and at twice the price I do not believe you get twice the value.
Bruce
bruce--- if the O.P. intends to lose his roof to hail-- then 30 year shingles might make sense but 50 year/Lifetime shingles do NOT cost twice the price of 30 year shingles----and factoring in labor-- it's an even better bargain. i have a customer currently deciding between 30 year and 50 yr/lifetime on a 51 sq. house----and the price difference is about 17% so for an up charge of 17% he gets a product the theoretically lasts 66.6666% longer-- pretty good value!Necatarine size hail here in 2007-- 50 year roofs came through just fine( although most were on 10/12 ---14/12 pitch Texas 4/12 ranch roofs might take more impact.
stephen
A square (material only) of 30yr is running about $86 here. 50 yr is running $155. Almost double. Are your prices much different?
Out of curiousity, what was the decking material underneath those shingles. All the new neighborhoods around here are 7/16 OSB on 2' Centers, All the rafters shine thorugh with three tabs-I wonder what deflection would like with a 50 year.
Actually it might help.
Bruce
Edited 3/10/2009 8:08 am by Hiker
currently under $80 and under $120 respectively.
Decking is typically 1x8 SYP circa 1926. don't really get involved in new construction--not a good business model for us however-the one new building we will be doing this year will be decked in 3/4" plywood on rafters @ 16" centersstephen
How are impact resistant shingles constructed? I'm curious as to what actually gives them their impact resistance.
"It is hardly too strong to say that there are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Noah Webster
Check out the Malarkey site. I've seem some video of tests where they fire ball bearings at Malarkey shingles hard enough that if it were a person, not a roof, they'd be out cold.
I don't know for sure because neither hail resistant shingles OR malarkey shingles are distributed in my area.But----- I read a few articles on malarkey shingles-- maybe 10 years ago? I think what the deal was---is that the material is formulated more like Modified Bitumen roofing--- so it is way more flexible across a wider range of temps. I would guess the interior matt is dofferent as well.
stephen