Oil change day today, DIY in the driveway. Local supplier only had Castrol Syntec in the weight I needed, so whaddya expect, bought it because I had to. Can’t postpone this operation. It’s a LOT of money, twice as much as regular. Can I get more mileage out of it? My usual interval is +/- 3000 miles with regular oil. Ford F150, 2003, V6 if it matters.
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Yep. 8,000 to 10,000 miles on synthy.
Absolutely!
There has been a couple long threads on Synthetics if you want more info - use advanced search.
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Mobil 1 is all we have used since '01.
None of the vehicles get used much, but we change oil each spring. The F150 seems to like it a lot.
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Short answer is no,,
the reason for it is acid build up is why you change oil not because it wears out.
Oil becomes contaminated with acids and other by products of combustion and they reach a level whereby they start to cause wear.
Next, the trueth is synthetics do increase mileage but by no significant factor. I credit the total use of synthetics, Oil fluids, grease etc. with increasing my mileage by 1 MPH. Simply keeping the proper air pressure in your tires is worth 2 at least and if you never check your tire pressures can be worth three or even 4 MPG.
As for Castrol I really HATE TO SAY THIS BECAUSE I'M A LONG TIME FAN OF CASTROL. I go back to the days when Castrol R was the best oil available. I still love it and next time I find a quart I'll do as I used to do which is use a few drops in the fuel simply to get that wonderful aroma. Both My Jaguars and MG have never used anything except Castrol.. However their synthetic is not as good as Moble 1's, not by a lot!
In spite of the fact that I'm a strong believer in synthetics, for most people they don't offer advantages worth their added cost. To find the real value of synthetics you must plan on driving the vehicle untill it rusts out or becomes otherwise worthless.
That's at least 20 years with proper maintinace and 30 years with careful maintinace!
I have 200,000 miles on my 23 year old car, all of it while using Castrol Syntec. Still running strong. I do change the oil every 6,000 miles or so.
200,000 should be the start not the end.. Castrol Synthetic is a better oil than conventional oils, it's simply not in the league of Moble 1 and like I said that tears me up because I like Castrol so much..
The acids come from breakdown of oil under heat.Synthetics are forumulated to not break down even in the heat jet engines develope. So no breakdown = no acidThey are also far better at holding particulates in suspension, being more HD. I change filter first 5000, then change all the oil at 10K.Sometimes more. Had a 350 tore down after 250K more or less and mechanic said it was the cleanest engine he had ever openned up.The main reason for changing is if you do a lot of short runs and get water buildup from condensation.
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The prime source of acid build up is a by product of combustion.. Sorry Piffin..
I really HATE TO SAY THIS BECAUSE I'M A LONG TIME FAN OF CASTROL
I really hate to agree with Frenchy, but Syntec sux.
Got it free from Castrol along with a bunch of jackets, keychains, pens, stickers and other propaganda.
Ran it ONCE for a few laps at Phoenix International. Zero oil pressure when hot.
Drained it and went back to Mobil1 which we had been running. Had oil pressure again.
It was free, used the rest in other vehicles but never again in expensive motor.
Joe H
Go to Wall Mart and get their in house brand. It's by far the cheapest I've seen.
And get two or more so you don't run out.
Will Rogers
Edited 6/19/2009 2:59 pm by popawheelie
Have you ever seen the inside of an engine that used wallyworld brand oil. I have it looks like you melted 1000 black crayons in it. Gummed up and gunky. Quaker state gives the same result.
Depends on how the vehicle is used when the oil is changed and what the condition of the engine is to start with..
quicker state is penn oil. Crude oil from the Appalachian Basin (Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil) contains a lot of wax and paraffin.its real good oil but need to be change frequency to reduce buildup
quicker state is penn oil. Crude oil from the Appalachian Basin (Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil) contains a lot of wax and paraffin.
its real good oil but need to be change frequency to reduce buildup
Can't believe those old myths are still floating around.
ANY oil that is certified to the API grade will be fine - you will not see any significant difference in paraffin, wax, or other content between brands.
While i was reading up around on this, I found that the main cause of sludge buildup is the additives themselves breaking down and what they leave behind.Since diff companies use diff additives and some people add there own concoctions and special super duper stuff, it is understandable that some concoctions would leave more sludge than others.
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Perhaps, but there is a limit to what they can add and still meet the grade spec. As a result, the differences are minimal and inconsequential.
Not according to the test reports they were referencing.Not that I know from beans, but just sayin'
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Not according to the test reports they were referencing.
Do you have links for the test reports? Should be interesting reading.
FWIW, I buy whatever petroleum-based oil is on sale that meets the service requirements for the vehicle, change the oil every 5K miles, and have gotten at least 300K miles with no major repairs from the last several cars I have owned.
Didn't save them.
I was googling motor oil + sludge or + contamination causes
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From what I heard the Wall Mart oil is just rebadged from another producer.
It is a fully synthetic motor oil. I don't see how a fully synthetic motor oil could be a low or substandard brand.
After all it is a full sysnthetic oil.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
"a full sysnthetic oil. "Good point to make. I don't know a thing about the WM brand/labeling, but do know that a lot of brands in the past thirty years have mixed 10-15% synthetic with normal petroleum oil and carefully labeled it to look like you are getting synth but really not
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Just curious to know what you guys pay for an oil like Castrol Syntec? It's almost $9/quart here, but bear in mind that I get to pay more for everything due to the remote location / captive audience factor.
The cheapest place I've found Syntec is at Walmart, they sell it in jugs instead of quart bottles (I've only been in a Walmart once in my life, and that was to buy a whole bunch of oil a couple years ago.)
" don't see how a fully synthetic motor oil could be a low or substandard brand."I guarentee there is a way to make it cheaper and to compromise its performance - and walmart sells price...."there's enough for everyone"
This will explain a lot about motor oil in general and about how they can use the name synthetic when it really is not.Apparently even Mobile one is not technically entirely synthhttp://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
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I've been running Mobil 1 in my 05 Colorado for about 8 months with decent results. MPG only went up about .5 to .75 so there is a little savings there. I stick with a 5,000 mile interval - easy to remember once you get on the cycle of 100,000 then 105,000 - etc. plus it saves money over the typical 3,000 mile interval. Since I drive about 40,000 miles a year, 8 synthetic oil changes are more cost effective than 12 conventional or semi-synthetic.
My biggest fuel savings has been since changing the oil in both differentials and the transfer case with Amsoil synthetic. After about 3 weeks, it looks like I'm up another .75 to 1.25 MPG. Every bit helps. Next up is changing over the transmission to full synthetic.
I usually get much better mileage improvement, but more noticeable in winter
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You're right, it should be a little higher improvement but I'm happy with what I got considering I drive from Northwest Indiana nearly to Wisconsin and back every day. That commute means I can go through Chicago and sit in traffic or around Chicago and sit in traffic. Either way, I'm sitting in traffic a while.
O'Hare Airport got about 4" of rain this morning and both of my main routes to get home (I-294 and I-94) are partially flooded so I'm thinking it's going to be a 3 hour plus commute home tonight.
I'd make sure your car can use the Synthetic oil in the trany.
I changed my S-10s manual trany to full synthetic and it wouldn't shift right.
I had to go back to the GM product.
Just a word of caution. Check first. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
what weight did you use?The S-10 manual used a 30 is all, so if you put in a heavier viscosity oil as most trannies use, that would account for the problem
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The GM product I went back to is called synchromesh transmission fluid friction modified. It says it is part synthetic.
When you go into the auto parts store for full synthetic manual transmission fluid there isn't a lot of weight choices. I'm not sure what weight I put in.
Both of these products were expensive. I didn't like draining out that fluid I just put in.
Oh well, live and learn. Sometimes."There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
I had an s-15 and was very surprised to read in the manual that it required regular old 30 weight motor oil, not a tranny oil. I was an Amsoil dealer at the time and did the whole truck with it. I even called the dealer to confirm that the manual was right, and my mechanic also said that a few trannies do use 30 instead of heavier ones.So I'm betting you used an oil too heavy for that vehicle causing the problem.
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Isuzi trooper transmission are the same way, 30 weight
That is understandable. GM and Isusu developed small trucks together. The Chevy Luv was an isusu built in Brazil I believe.
Then GM took an independent step going to the S-10/15 series small trucks where they pioneered their new frame that became the same type used in the full sized line a year or three later
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I'll look in my manual. Thanks!"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
"Next up is changing over the transmission to full synthetic."ya - you need a slippery transmission!"there's enough for everyone"
I often had manual trannies in Colorado so cold that you could not shift out of gear until it warmed up. That's not a good thing if you want to go start the truck in the morning and let it warm up while you go back in for any cuppa joe. But synthetic will flow fine down to about minus forty degrees
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"...so cold that you could not shift..."ya, I can accept the definite superiority of synthetics in manual transmissions - when he mentioned 'transmission fluid', I flashed on automatic transmissions/slippery - "there's enough for everyone"
Take a good look at that link I had attached. I didn't keep pinging you, but as I read the thread further saw that it answers a lot of the other questions and thoughts that you raised in subsequent conversation
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We run synthetics in almost every machine we own, including all of the small engines.
As one of the other posters pointed out, you will notice a big difference if you use them in the running gear on your machines.
I have a friend in the oil distribution business. He points out that besides the use of synthetics, the best thing you can do for your engine is to use a top quality oil filter.
If you have time, look up some sites that discuss the differences in oil filters...you will be surprised !
"If you have time, look up some sites that discuss the differences in oil filters...you will be surprised !"Like this one:http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html
"...discuss the differences in oil filters"I've never understood spending big $ on filters - where does the 'dirt' come from? - I use common NAPA 'silver' filters (as vs 'gold') and change oil consistently - I don't see the advantage under normal conditions - "there's enough for everyone"
There are big differences in filter materials, filter construction, amounts of oil that can be effectively filtered before the bypass valve cuts in, anti drain features etc. etc.
If you are interested, take some time to read about this. There are some great websites out there. Just Google "Oil filter information"
I wouldn't dispute that all those things hold truths - but to what effect? - where's the 'dirt'? - just how much filtering does a passenger car/light truck need? - if you are loading up a common filter in 3000 miles, there are other problems - I've seen the cut outs sitting on the counters - I'm sure premium filters have more capacity - is it necessary? - not in my opinion - dunno - I care for more than 30 gasoline engines of one sort or another - some have filters, some don't (and some are two cycle) - oil contamination by combustion by-products/blow-by is the biggest factor I observe - to my knowledge filters don't have much effect on that - this is also the reason I have never been able to get excited about synthetics for crankcase applications - it'd cost me ~$100 more each oil change to switch to 'premium' filters - I have not been convinced the benefit is there - "there's enough for everyone"
Here's another way to look at it. When you put new oil in an engine, it is basically clear. When you drain it...it is usually black. Sometimes, really black, depending on what kind of engine you have.
All of that color is some kind of contamination that is harmful to your engine. There is always some metal wearing off of various parts as the engine runs. It can interfere with proper lubrication by clogging small oil ports or areas with little clearance. It can also clog cheap oil filters to the point where it will stop filtering the oil and the oil will simply bypass the filter fabric or the fabric will actually collapse.
You really have no way of knowing if this has happened or not unless you cut the filter apart.
You will get much less of this contamination when you use synthetic oil because it doesn't burn up or vaporize like regular oil. In fact many synthetic manufacturers recommend changing the filters at certain intervals and not necessarily the oil. I think Piffin mentioned that in a previous post and Frenchy also talked about that.
The Fram $3.00 filters may work in some instances, but even Fram makes much better filters for a slightly higher price.
I dont use it but many people and magazine say the best oil filter is wix, but i think its only sold at napa
I have read that many times.
Take a look at this site
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
David;
there is a good arguement that with frequent changes of oil filters the oil itself can go further, much further.. As you know oil doesn't wear out, it simply becomes contaiminated. remove the contamination with an oil filter change and you extend the life of the oil.
i change my oil every 5000 miles, easy to remember, I got over a million miles on work trucks and never a engine failure due to oil. I use reqular filter and I am in a dusty area all the time.
I was under the impression that shear forces actually cause molecular chains to break, causing oil to become 'less slippery' over time - so it could be said that oil 'wears out' - and filters are good for the particulate contamination from wear, but they don't have any effect on blow-by contamination or moisture, do they?dunno - back in the '60's, GM would spec oil changes with filter changes every other oil change - I never understood that - you're either starting the cycle with a filter full of contaminated oil or taking the filter off and draining it, and after making that effort, it would seem reasonable to just replace the filter..."there's enough for everyone"
dunno - back in the '60's, GM would spec oil changes with filter changes every other oil change - I never understood that - you're either starting the cycle with a filter full of contaminated oil or taking the filter off and draining it, and after making that effort, it would seem reasonable to just replace the filter...
If Obama had been at the helm in those days, this never would have slipped by him!!
of course the original Chevy 265 ci small block didn't have an oil filter...."there's enough for everyone"
Yur right....I've got a mint '54 Bel Air with the Blue Flame six ( with hydraulic lifters )
Been in the family since new...but no oil filter. That was an option. It is so poorly designed that it is not worth installing. There are lots of them left in the junk yards if you can find a yard that hasn't shredded every car.
"It is so poorly designed that it is not worth installing."it was just a can with a cartridge that filtered the oil that made it to the end of the gallery and was about to be dumped into the crankcase, was it not? - lots of '50's era engines used that strategy - wonder if JC Whitney still sells the 'toilet paper' oil filter adapters...."there's enough for everyone"
Well that has been disproven pretty completely.. (many times by enough testing services that It's amazing it's still comes up)..
Moisture, etc is absorbed by the filtering media usually some form of paper or cloth gauze.
Since newer cars have less blowby etc.. it does actually work.. testing will confirm it and there are testing services available in most towns Caterpillar, John Deere, Cummins all have services
well, it's not hard to find references to such phenomenon with a google 'engine oil molecular breakdown' search - but it's a bit beside the point anyway - what I have observed over the last 50 years, emptying hundreds of crankcases, is that oil gets nasty - under normal circumstances, it gets nasty from contaminates that get past the rings/valve stems - both combustion mix and exhaust products - run long enough it gets thin and black - I can feel the difference between acceptably functional oil and 'worn out' oil by rubbing some between my thumb and fingers - whether that is a result of 'molecular breakdown' or some other phenomenon is pretty much a moot point - the cure is fresh oil - I never allow oil in any of the engines I'm responsible for to reach or even approach that condition - it's false economy to try to squeeze a few more hours/miles out of $10 worth of oil in a $2500+ engine - in my opinion, this strategy relegates the 'premium' oil filter into a 'feel good' purchase, not something that's going to make a difference over the long term - it's also why I'm leery of synthetic oil with its extended schedules - altho I do run it in my sawmill and japanese 'mini-truck' and other specific equipment where its viscosity characteristics gives it a discernible advantage - OK - I'm off to change the oil in my daughter's car...."there's enough for everyone"
Oh I completely agree that oil can get nasty.. exactly as you described (because I too have drained enough oil from crankcases to power a supertaker over the years)..
However that is usually a function of time and not mileage.. if you are familar with over the road trucks the oil change intervals occur when oil sampling tells them it's time and not before.. that can easily be 20,000 -30,000 miles or more.. or a little as 3000 miles.
David,
Depending on your driving habits, 5-6k miles would not be at all unreasonable. Modern engine management systems (fuel injection) allow much less unburned fuel in the engine to contaminate the oil. And the synthetic will protect longer too. My 84 S10 has 270k miles, Wifes 84 Riviera just turned 160k and my 99 Tahoe has a shade over 110k. All of them have had 5w30 Mobil1 since new, changed at an average of 6000 miles or so. The Tahoe has gone as much as 10 and the oil still looks almost new when drained. Below are some pictures of the valve covers and rocker arms on the S-10 last summer when I replaced the valve cover gaskets. First time anything has been done to the engine since new in 1984.
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Edited 6/19/2009 8:14 pm ET by MrBill
OK here are the pics .... doh ! All I did to the valve cover is rinse it in the parts washer, no scrubbing etc, it was almost as clean as you see when I took it off !
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Probably should have posted this to ALL but ....
I have had several bad experiences changing to synthetics from standard motor oils.
Both rigs were fairly high miles that had run only standard motor oils and in both the crank seals ended up having to be replaced. In talking to wrench lovers I was told this is not at all uncommon after making the switch.
Just a note of caution .
Let me ask you, the older style rope seal common with engines made up to about 2000 would frequently fail under the conditions you mentioned.. That is preciely why manufactures went to the new one peiece seals.. So my question is what year were the engines in question made?
Early and late eighties.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
rope seals were common then..
You don't want to leave the false impression that synthetic oil causes seal failures tho.it is common in older engines to observe this, but it is because there has already been a failure that is gummed up with sludge enough that it is not noticeable.But after a thousand miles of running the HD synthetic, that sludgy engine is finally getting cleaned for the first time in it's life, and the synthetic starts leaking because it can see the hole that has long been there.
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That's exactly right. When all the smoke cleared from the leak studies, they found that the problem was just what you described.
You are right, the leaks (or potential for leak) existed prior to the change in oil types. I guess the question is is there value in switching to a synthetic in a high mile motor if one of the results is the potential need to replace the seals because they might fail.
Not trying to argue against synthetics, I use them , just mentioning the issue is all.
I change oil and filters often because 90% or so of all my driving is short trips (1-20 miles) and the motors never gets thoroughly warmed up as they would on say an hour+ long trip.
Oils seems to get a lot dirtier then when I used to drive 40-50 miles one way.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
back ion the seventies and eighties, the concensus was that if the engine had over 70-80K miles, might as well finish wearing it out with regular oil, or just add one quart of synthetic, which helped the cold start situation and fuel mileage a lot. I don't know what it is now. Engines are being built with much closer tolerances the last couple few years and lasting longer with any oil. I have no doubt that a good engine built today running synthetic could last a lifetime if it was weaned on synthetics from the git go.I've always run synthetics in all mine.Even the '85 GMC van I drive almost daily. I bought it with about 80K, from one owner who was fanatic about car care. It is almost ready to turn over the odometer. The bottom will likely rust out from under it or the tranny will go before the engine wears out.
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Adding a quart to my old ( but new to me) jeep may be something I will do. Hadn't thought of that . It has only run standard oils for 155k.
Might help it out to slowly wean it over to synthetics. Thanks for the idea.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
There are alot of opinions on here, and that's all they are. If you want to know how often to change your oil, send a sample to Blackstone.com. That will tell you the condition of your oil, the condition of your engine and how much "life" the additives in the oil have left.
People using synthetic oil who change the filter and add a quart at regular intervals, may never have to "change" their oil. But they only know they can do this because of an oil analysis.
The info that I've received over the years from the tech types at Gulf and Amoco, now Chevron, is that while the majors sell to the private branders such as Wally World, etc., that oil will be at the high or low end of the SAE viscosity limits, while the major brand will be in the middle of the SAE vis. limits. It's the stuff the majors wouldn't sell under their own name. They do make the oils for Deere, Case, etc., but these are made to the equip. mfg. specs. Anther point, when lube oil "breaks down" it thickens. If your oil is thin when it's not hot you've got a problem with fuel dilution. Pennsylvania oil now, and for a loonng time refers(ed) to the strata it comes from, and is a parafin oil as opposed to a Texas, or napthenic crude which is used in steam engines and certain compressor operations. As to transmissions and differentials, certain manufacturers require a syn. oil in their boxes. If you change your filter and pull an oil sample for analysis on a regular, 5000 mi. or so basis, you'd be amazed at the miles/hrs. you can get on an oil change. It scares the poop out of the oil change shops. The main thing is checking out the whole vehicle on a regular base, which essentially doing an oil change does. Whew!
Had a Benz diesel wagon , would only sart in the winter when below 0º with syntec, finally got rid of it at 288,000, with all original engine. used no oil between changes at that milage...all I use now...Bud
Edited 6/20/2009 10:04 pm ET by seb
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If your vehicle is under warranty , manufacturers don’t care what oil you purchase . ( most recommend synthetic ) Have to follow their recommended intervals .
Oil gets dirty by previously mentioned ways . Temp can cause oxidation, that pesky oxygen reacting . Clearances are much closer than in past plus lower RPM has extended life’s of engines .
I have 2 sets of oil . I’m always filtering one set of oil and after 5 changes I replace . Find about 4 oz of additives , oil life would be extended 20 fold .
Space shuttle cleaned their Mobil one and kept using it over and over ..