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Tablesaw for homeowner

| Posted in Tools for Home Building on December 14, 2003 07:21am

Lowes has a sale this week on a Delta 10″ Table Saw, 13amp with stand for $89.  Looks like the TS200LS model  I don’t know a lot about table saws except that i see the common ones are 13 or 15amp and then there are various attachments.

I have a Bosch cordless set so I looked around at the Bosch table saw and prices and with the foldable stand it runs $400-500 it seems.  The Bosch is a 15amp unit and comes with more accessories, but that’s a lot pricier then what I was thinking to spend on a tablesaw, especially given how frequently I’d use it.

How does this 13amp Delta stack up in the world of budget tablesaws?  Should I consider other brands?

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Replies

  1. Turtleneck | Dec 14, 2003 08:18pm | #1

    It depends on what you use the saw for.

    I had a Delta portable as a service saw (cutting trim, ripping plywood, 2X4s,  etc...) I abused it for years before it finally died.    ;(

    If you plan on building alot of cabinets, the Bosch is a nice $$$$aw.

    But if you throw a quality blade into your delta, you may be suprised at how well it performs.

  2. FastEddie1 | Dec 14, 2003 10:39pm | #2

    I bought a $99 yellow saw from Lowes about 4-5 years ago.  Not a deWalt, can't think of the name.  Limited rip capacity (about 11" I think), but with a sharp blade it does real well.  Cheap miter guage, mostly use it for ripping.  It's my travel saw, all plastic, been abused but still cuts well.  For the price it wa a good purchase, and if you're looking for a part-time saw, the on-sale delta could be a good choice.

    Do it right, or do it twice.

  3. Lateapex911 | Dec 15, 2003 10:37am | #3

    This will be your only saw?

    $89 isn't a respectable price for a saw....it has to be mising too much.  I've been watching Delta, and I have been surprised at a lot of their recent products. Very low end. I think they are trying to cash in on what they think is a "good name".

    If this is to be your only table saw, I would recommend the Bosch or the Dewalt, or the Makita.

    I have the Bosch, and have used the Dewalt and Makita.  Of the three, the Bosch is the best choice for you, as it is the closest thing to a cabinet saw among the portables.  It has very good capacity, with it's extending table and extention options. It is powerful. And most of all, it is accurate and consistant.

    With the stand included, the price is more than fair for the quality you will get. Remember, this is a purchase you will live with for 20 or so years.  Make sure you will want to be using it in 20 years!

    Jake Gulick

    [email protected]

    CarriageHouse Design

    Black Rock, CT

  4. MajorWool | Dec 15, 2003 12:17pm | #4

    Two things to consider are what you plan to do with the saw and where the saw stands in your total tool budget.

    Small light saws are nice if you move them around alot. But you sacrifice stability with light weight.* They usually have limited capacity so you may have to get sheet goods cut down to a smaller size before you can work with it. Light saw performance can be improved by C-clamping it to a stable base. The small saws use universal motors which run at high RPM and have a shorter life than induction motors. Generally, if the motor dies in the saw, you simply replace the whole saw. This may not be the case with the better portables where the motor isn't 90% the cost of the saw. Some of these are being dressed up to look like contractor-style saws with metal stands and a longer fence. The larger contractor-style saws use an induction motor which hangs out the back. Their motors run longer and can be replaced easily. They use up more space and weigh more, but you get more capacity and a better cut than the portables. There is a wide range on contractor saws with bigger tables, cast iron tops and wings, and a cutting capacity up to 50 inches. They are also often available used in pretty good condition for about what you'd pay for a nice portable.

    A $99 saw will cut wood but don't expect to make fine furniture with it or pass it down to your children. But if you are just ripping 1x12's to make a picket fence or furring strips, it would probably be fine.

    * There is also a safety issue with smaller saws which can physically move as you feed wood into them. I'd never use one without having it clamped to a heavy bench or stand.

  5. IronHelix | Dec 15, 2003 02:39pm | #5

    In 89' or 90' I decided to pick up a table saw sort of like you are hinting at...I paid $129 for a Black&Decker 8" .     Yup...light weight, portable, inaccurate, noisy, limited rip capacity. always out of square......still have it.  It now has a dry diamond abrasive brade for cutting occasional stone, brick, and tile.

    I replaced it with another lightweight in 95' for $195....better than the B&D....but still lacking a lot.   My son-in-law is building his house...I sent it there three years ago when I decided to treat myself to a quality saw.

    The Bosch has been a dream come true...wonderful in all aspects.  I wasted the $ for the two prior saws and struggled trying to achieve some semblance of accuracy.

    If you can swing the $$$..... forego the miniature, cheap table saw that you have seen at the big box......buy a saw that will meet your future skill levels and cutting needs. 

    .................Iron Helix

    1. user-416850 | Dec 15, 2003 03:02pm | #6

      If you don't know already that you need a $500 table saw Then you don't need one. As a homeowner how much precision ripping are you going to do.  Buy the Delta for $100 abuse it for as long as you can. If it breaks that's a sign that your style and usage requires a better saw.

  6. User avater
    dieselpig | Dec 15, 2003 06:19pm | #7

    ESM,

       Although the $99 or so price tag looks appealing, you should really pass on this saw if you can.  I had one of those Delta's and no matter what I did to the saw I could NEVER, NOT ONCE get the fence parallel to the blade.  I tried and tried and tried and would always end up using a C-clamp to hold the fence square.  I'm not talking about 1/32" or even 1/16".... this thing was 1/4" out of square over about a 16" fence!  Pretty much useless.

    If you do decide to purchase it despite what you've heard, don't just grab a box and go.  Open the box up and check the saw out.  Make sure the blade and fence are at least close to square.   Check out the tilt as well.  I couldn't get my saw to tilt past about 42 degrees....the motor hit the bottom of the table!  Not much could be done about that....poor engineering.

    I believe Makita still makes an 8 1/2" table saw which would cost a little more than the Delta, but still not eat up your tool budget the way one of the higher end portables  would.

    1. CAGIV | Dec 16, 2003 04:20am | #8

      this thing was 1/4" out of square over about a 16" fence!  Pretty much useless

      Not if you want to cut tapers :)

      I'll second, third, what ever we are up to here, don't by the delta, it's a POS at least the one I recieved as a christmass gift a few years back was.

  7. CarpenterJC | Dec 16, 2003 05:32am | #9

    I think the Delta youre talking about is the "bench saw"..direct drive and noisy...I have a Hitachi thats pretty nice..also the Bosch is good as is the new Craftsman...pretty quiet and good power...portability wise I think they rank pretty close...if youre gonna rip 5/4 maple all day I"d go with the Bosch with the 15amp. or other larger amperage..if youre gonna rip and crosscut with more finesse I"d go for the Hitachi or craftsman..less noise and smoother operation....just My thoughts..hope this helps.

     

                                                                                                         JC

    1. CarpenterPJE | Dec 16, 2003 05:08pm | #16

      CarpenterJC

      You may want to change your Font, You have good things to say but its hard to read.

      CarpenterPJE

      1. CarpenterJC | Dec 17, 2003 02:17am | #20

        This any easier to read?..the last one was a bit small..sorry about that...too bad it doesnt save youre settings..pain in the a** checkin it everytime....

  8. JerBear | Dec 16, 2003 06:02am | #10

    The big thing that makes these lightweight saws so frustrating and yes, dangerous is the fence system (there is none), and they have no stable base nor proper outfeed.  I work out 'in the field' every day so I have to haul mine around.  I have the little Makita 8" but with a Rouseau table and outfeed setup which folds down and is very portable to fit into my van. This gives the little lightweight saws actual 'big saw' capabilities.  I have had this saw for over 16 years now and have grown so used to it that I am very capable and have made cabinets and furniture with it.  I have modified it somewhat and added my own cross cut sled.  The bigger portables weren't around back then and I have been tempted many times to get the Bosch or the Dewalt after using them, and leave my lightweight.  They are wonderful saws for field tools, I just can't justify it however.  If you do buy a lighter saw, I strongly recommend getting a table stand for it.  The fence on the Rousseau is nothing more than the Beisemeir cabinet fence they put on the big shop saws, and every bit as accurate.  You still will probably be saving some money if you go this route

    1. xMikeSmith | Dec 16, 2003 07:11am | #11

      you guys keep talking about the Bosch.... and dewalt gets an honorable mention....

       but you really ought to look at  the PC... it does everything the bosch does for $100 less.... and the WEIGHT is less for  lugging it aroundMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

  9. alwaysoverbudget | Dec 16, 2003 07:21am | #12

    i know i'm going to get thrashed on this one.......anyway i needed a portable saw to take to jobsites so i bought the ryobi that home depot has for 199.00. 10",rips out to 27" ,has table extension off the back,plus just about the slickest stand i've ever used.it rips 2x with no problem. right now were using it to rip hardi siding ,so as soon as were done i'm going to put a nice blade on it and expect it to perform even better! i'd recommend it for the price.everybody go ahead now and start ripping me for buying a RYOBI! larry

    1. JerBear | Dec 16, 2003 02:42pm | #14

      I have some very high end expensive tools, electric and non.  But some of the workhorses, the 'old reliables' were cheapies that I bought because...I'll say it....I can be cheap.  I can't kill them.  I had a Ryobi 10" miter saw that just gave up the ghost this weekend.  It was 15 years old and was my backup.  I bought it for maybe $120 I don't remember, but it's been kicked around, used by hack carpenters, I ran over it once with my truck, fixed it, and it kept on ticking.  It didn't owe me a thing.  Who'dathunkit!  I prefer the higher end stuff naturally but there's a lot to be said about the cheap Harvey Homeowner tools.  Sometimes you just get lucky.

  10. ravenwind | Dec 16, 2003 08:42am | #13

    I have the 10 in skill 189.00 and the ryobe 99.00 ive used the skill for 6 years and its a good enough saw thats taken a lot of beating and i have it in one of those folding stands so the setup cost 425.00 a lot for a cheep saw. the ryobe is not worth 100.00 I bought it one weekend when i left my saw at a jobsite and i needed a saw at home. it did the trick.    I looked at dewalt 10 in and bosch 10 in and are both beautiful saws but bought the new rigid 10.in table saw and love it i dont and cant say its better then dewalt or bosch but for the same price its what i need . ryobe makes a new 10 in with wheels and folds up that could be o.k. for arround the house but Home Depot right now in maine maybe all over  has the maketa 10 in tabel saw for 260.00 no stand but a good saw for a great price  its some kind of before xmas price   just wanted to put that out there      woof / dogboy

  11. shedhappens | Dec 16, 2003 04:52pm | #15

    don't buy cheap tools.  the main reason is that you'll spend twice as much time and effort trying to make it work to your satisfaction -- and still be dis-satisfied.  in whole, my opinion is that they are not only inferior tools, but less safe.  (I know this is a generalization, but when one of those wimpy cam fence mechanisms lets go and you get a 75 mile per hour gut shot from a kicked back piece of plywood, you become cautious) -- my best investment in a table saw was the dewalt.  I was skeptical at first -- back then the notion of a plastic saw cabinet was unheard of, but I have been very pleased with it's precision and performance.  the rack and pinion fence is amazingly accurate.  as always, handle it carefully when moving it around, and it'll last years.

  12. CarpenterPJE | Dec 16, 2003 05:19pm | #17

    ESM

    $89.00, Thats about what a good blade should cost.

    I'm also in the market for another table saw. My budget was $800.00-$1000.00.

    After alot of shopping &  advice from our good friends here at BT, Knots & Tool Talk. My new budget is around $1800.00,  This is a work horse in any shop & is a investment. I've had cheap saws in the past & now I'm buying saw #5 & the last one.

    I do have a Dewalt for on the truck & it has worked well, a lot of good features, However, I think the Bosch would have been better from all the talk around here.

    $450.00-$500.00 is not alot of money for a table saw.

    Good Luck

    PJE

    1. ESM | Dec 16, 2003 05:34pm | #18

      I've opted out of the Delta.  I can wait until I need the saw( dont at the current time) and get a good product.  I will probably opt for the Bosch with table and try and keep my Bosch collection going.  I'll be sure to investigate another saws in the $400 range when the time cones as well.  I believe my father had an OLD craftsman unit with outboard motor and it must have been 20 years old whhen he was using it, worked great.  So I will probably also check into Craftsman.

      1. CarpenterPJE | Dec 17, 2003 01:07am | #19

        Great hearing you will opt for a better saw, But PLEASE, stay away from Crapsman!!!

        1. ScottB | Dec 26, 2003 09:38pm | #30

          My 10" Craftsman just crapped out on me about a week ago.  It was actually a hand me down from my dad.  My mom talked him out of a better one, needles to say he was never happy with that saw.  He gave it to me so he could justify a better one to her.  It lasted all of three years,  one for me and two for him.if I was any smarter I might be dangerous.

      2. CAGIV | Dec 17, 2003 03:58am | #21

        another option might be to check out what's available used in your area.  You might be able to find a better saw for the money that is slightly used.  And as Jeff Buck always says... look at toolcrib in the reconditioned section.  Same warranty as new and less money

        1. Heatherington | Dec 17, 2003 07:37am | #22

          I have a question in regard to finding used power tools for sale. This would be my prefered route, unamerican as it is, since I have been buying used vehicles all my life, and had pretty good luck.

          But I'll be darned if I can find any on the web. This may be more due to my inexperience on the web than anything else, but Google keeps sending me to e-bay and 1/2 bay, where they have squat.

          Frank

          1. CAGIV | Dec 17, 2003 10:54am | #23

            No real advice here since you're probably not from around my area, but it seems every week I see at least one or two table saws in one of the area papers.  I've never gone and looked at one since I'm not looking for one, but the prices seem fair enough.  Check your paper, I'm not sure I'd buy one off e-bay site unseen, but if I could check it out locally I'd be willing to go that route

          2. User avater
            BillHartmann | Dec 17, 2003 07:53pm | #25

            It depends on what kind of equipment that you are looking far? For things like portable table saws the local papers classified ads are the most common. And don't forget the neighborhood and subburan papers and the "penny saver" and "trader" publications.

            Also garage sales. And many woodworking supply stores will have builetin boards.

            For larger equpment there are a number of on-line sources. Most WW forums have classified ad sections. And there are many dealers in larger equipment.

            And check the local tool repair shops. They might have "factory refurbs", trade ins, and ones that they guy has never shown up to pay for.

            Edited 12/17/2003 11:55:33 AM ET by Bill Hartmann

          3. Heatherington | Dec 18, 2003 07:18am | #26

            Yea, thanks, Bill. I've been checking out the local sorces around here. I just moved from Arizona to the Appalacians in North Carolina, and it feels a little different. Odd little things you never noticed work differently out here. I'll find my way around.

          4. User avater
            MarkH | Dec 22, 2003 03:49am | #28

            I've found good used tools locally in the classifieds and on traderonline.com.

          5. ScottB | Dec 26, 2003 09:44pm | #31

            This may be a dumb question, but would anyone recommend a radial arm saw over a table saw?  I've used one a couple of times and liked them.  Given a choice for a home shop what would be more versatile?if I was any smarter I might be dangerous.

          6. milanuk | Dec 26, 2003 10:09pm | #32

            The RAS would work fine, the biggest 'issue' in my mind for a home owner is that it does require a fair amount of space, once you factor infeed and outfeed tables, and it is not terribly portable. Of course, neither are most contractor saws, or cabinet saws. It really depends on what you want. Some people have issues w/ the accuracy/repeatability of RAS's, but others have built some mighty fine homes (and furniture) using one. Ripping is doable, but a little more caution is involved than w/ a TS. The RAS's have been kind of slipping by the wayside, w/ the advent of the large SCMS set. The SCMS are supposed to be more accurate, but they can't dado, rip, etc. Cost is similar.

            I'd second looking in the used category of the local classifieds. Used contractor saws and some of the Dewalt/Bosch benchtops come up fairly frequently. The little benchtop saws work, but they do have (a lot of) limitations. You'd almost be as well off to make a top out of plywood and bolt a circular saw to the bottom. Use a 2x4 w/ C-clamps for a fence, and you are off and running. People used to do it all the time, and I think they still make/sell kits for it over in Europe, where space is a little bit of a premium.

            HTH,

            Monte

          7. finishcarp | Dec 26, 2003 10:22pm | #33

            As one fellow put it - think about a saw you would want to be using in 20 years!  perhaps that is the best way to put it- I have bought many inxpensive tools only to purchase a "better" model after frustration, wear out, or un-useability (?)  Buy the best saw you can- quality will be it's own reward and prompt you to be all that you can be.  A cheap saw will drive you to NOT do any projects or hire someone to do the job... it all costs $$$$

            Or at least that's how I explain it to the Budget Committee Chairperson at home !!My DW says I'm a tool head with a sawdust brain !!

          8. milanuk | Dec 26, 2003 10:46pm | #34

            While I do agree w/ that logic if a person is say, a contractor that will be using the tool almost daily, or even a (somewhat serious) hobby woodworker who might use the tool fairly frequently, say every weekend. Buy the best you can scrape up the money for, and cry only once. Unfortunately, real life has a bad habit of ruining *my* plans along those lines ;) But for the 'homeowner', where the saw might be used once or twice a year, albeit possibly for a day or three at a time, the point of diminishing returns approaches rapidly when looking at getting a PM66, a Unisaw, or even a (new) heavy duty contractor saw. The tool ends up taking up valuable floor space more 95+% of the time.

            I always hear people go on about how getting an inexpensive tool first and later upgrading to a more featured/finished tool later represents a 'waste' of money. But if you get any significant use out of the first tool, or even if it just keeps you going until you get your feet wet and decide if you are *really* interested enough to fork over the big $$$ for serious machinery, I think it is worthwhile. Plus, if you get hooked using the inexpensive tool, and SWMBO starts asking for fancier finished products, it makes it *much* easier at that point to weasel the funds out of the budget for a *really* nice tool ;) Generally a lot smoother than starting out w/ a $1000-2000 shocker for *one* tool ;)

            YMMV,

            Monte

          9. unTreatedwood | Dec 22, 2003 04:08am | #29

            http://www.barbomachinery.com/

            Take a look at this site.  I check it regularly and it moves stuff off and on.  Wide range of tools. 

      3. User avater
        AaronRosenthal | Dec 17, 2003 10:57am | #24

        I've waited to wade in because of my recent experience (which may not have the same needs as you do).

        I had a Delta 130.00 special. I used it for minor projects, and then a big job came up.

        The lack of a stand made me very nervous as we started cutting more every day. What really killed it for me was that it took my guys about 45 seconds to try and get the fence and blade parallel. As the deck took shape and I needed to cut angles I realized it was plain, costing me money.

        I got a Bosch and after setting it up, it took 5 seconds to adjust to a good cut. Those 40 seconds a cut, times 50 cuts a day saved the money to pay for the saw.

        Even if you are not a pro, your time is valuable too - as well, precision is safety, too.

        Get a good saw.Quality repairs for your home.

        Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada

  13. GerryB | Dec 22, 2003 01:44am | #27

    Unless you plan on using the saw only very occasionally, I'd strongly suggest you spend more to get a good machine.  I've used the portable Delta model that 3 different coworkers have, and can't say I'm impressed.  Nothing against Delta tools- I own several.  But a lightweight, cheap tablesaw has very limited range of uses.  If you want to rip longer boards, for instance, the short fence and lack of power are major handicaps.  Our company recently purchased the Porter Cable jobsite model with stand (about C$500 up here in Canada), and it is a superb machine in all respects - excellent ripfence, lots of power,  electric brake, vac port, well-designed height and bevel adjustment knobs,  and easy portablility (except I wish they'd make the stand so it could fold down while attached to the saw!)  I haven't had a chance to try the Bosch or Dewalt saws, but it sure seems like lots of people love them, too.    Budget tools are worth considering sometimes, but for a tablesaw I agree with the others who say to spend the extra money right from the start.

  14. MojoMan | Jan 11, 2004 02:13am | #35

    I just read this thread with interest as one goal for 2004 is to replace my old Craftsman 10" shop saw. I want a saw that will sit in my basement shop, so portability is not a big issue. I want accuracy, stability, ease of set-up, 24" of  table on the right and a 10" blade. A $500 price tag sounds about right. The Bosch and PC sound good, but these are portable saws. I see Craftsman still has a shop saw for about $500 and was wondering if it has advantages over job-site saws. Is there an advantage of belt-drive over direct drive? I don't have dust collection yet, but maybe some day. Are there any other contenders out there?

    Thanks!

    Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

    1. ravenwind | Jan 11, 2004 04:02am | #36

      I have the rigid port table saw with folding stand and did so because i need to take it on jobs if size wasnt an issue I would have gone to belt drive / or to craftsmen shop saw 500. is a fair price the Dewalt shop saw at about 800.00 looks nice. my understanding is belt drive is nice smooth running blade and not as loud with plenty of torque/balls . some of the saws with direct drive have smooth start motors to copy feel of belt  but my feelings are go for the real deal . I am happy with mine but i think i traided size for more accuracy...     good luck      dogboy

    2. stonebm | Jan 16, 2004 08:57pm | #37

      "Is there an advantage of belt-drive over direct drive?"

      Definitely.  The belt-drives are way quieter, more powerful, and last longer.  The saws that feature belt-drive also usually have a lot more mass to them (cast iron tables and trunnions) and therefore run a lot smoother.  Once you get a belt drive, you'll never want a direct drive unless you need the portability.

      1. MojoMan | Jan 16, 2004 11:21pm | #38

        Thanks for the input on belt drive.

        Can someone recommend a cast iron, belt-drive tablesaw with 24" cut width in the $500 price range? Is the Craftsman any good?

        Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

        1. User avater
          BillHartmann | Jan 16, 2004 11:52pm | #39

          The Jet is a good one in that price range.

          The are more expensive versions with the CI extension wings and longer fence. But the basic unit is very good. I have one. At the time it was $499, but I think that the price is up a little.

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