Replies

1. 
   CloudHidden | Jul 09, 2003 03:46pm | #1

   What happens if you drop a hammer on your toe sans-shoe? Will they pay for medical and downtime? I'd tell them that your shoes are an important part of your safety equipment and cannot be compromised. Drop cloths or cheap carpet on the floor would protect the floors not just from the soles of your shoes, but also allow you a place to set tools and materials.

2. 
   bobl | Jul 09, 2003 03:56pm | #2

   curious

   were they wearing shoes?

   bobl          Volo Non Voleo

3. 
   BossHog | Jul 09, 2003 03:56pm | #3

   Try to think of things from their perspevtive - They probably don't see you as being there to help them out. They most likely look at you as a large expense, and one who might make a mess in their house. If they just spent a bunch of money on a hard wood floor, it would only be natural for them to want to protect it.

   Or maybe the last guy who was there was a slob and they're a little gun shy. Imagine someone you don't know coming into YOUR house and making a mess.

   Everybody looks at their own house differently. Some look at it as being very fragile - They don't want anything messed up or soiled. Me, I always say my house is meant to be lived in. I don't take my shoes off unless they're muddy.

   But you're a sort of guest in their house. Be tactful and observe their rules as best as you can.

   BTW - Splitting your posts up into pargraphs will make them more readable.

   Men are self-confident because they grow up identifying with superheroes.
   Women have bad self-images because they grow up identifying with Barbie.

1. 
   IMERC | Jul 09, 2003 05:07pm | #7

   Imagine someone you don't know coming into YOUR house and making a mess.

   I don't see as where you could tell, in my place anyways.

   Respect the HO's wishes. I use the slip ons and most always the HO is satisfied.

   Taking shoes or boots off around here is a given. Between the pastures, barn yards and mud it's just courtisey

4. 
   calvin | Jul 09, 2003 04:04pm | #4

   I've had the pleasure of working for folks that take it to the extreme.  Drops to the job usually take care of it.  Some want a complete covering/sealing/etc.  As long as they know that the degree of difficulty adds or subtracts from the final price, no big deal.  Of course, there are those that want to use the room you're working on or maybe need to pass through it on the way to the laundry or whatever and still wish it to be dust free.  It's best to suggest they weigh the cost of moving out during the job to a complete cleanup of the place after you're finished.

   Here's something a local plumbing contractor offers.  His guys use the slip on tyvek shoe covers (like surgeons use or clean room guys) when in the home.  Pretty much his guys may go from new construction to service calls and mud on the shoes is almost a given.  Takes a bit of time but the customers are more than happy.

   All that said, you should meet mrs daverio.  She's a clean freak.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   Quittin' Time

5. 
   VaTom | Jul 09, 2003 04:25pm | #5

   We don't wear shoes inside our house either.  Guests know to remove theirs.  Slippers are available.  I have no problem doing my repairs without dropping heavy objects on my toes.  If that's a problem for you, make SURE you have steel toed sneakers.

   To me it's just common courtesy, one that I also observed for many years when we lived in Denver.  When it was snowy out I made more than a few homeowners happy when I pulled my boots off, without prompting.  Back when I painted professionally I also went to the laundromat frequently with my drop cloths.  Homeowners are thrilled if you don't add to their housework.  Unspoken part of my sales pitch- it works!  Pull-on boots are convenient. 

   Here in central Virginia, my deepest pocketed client has a large house where nobody wears shoes, staff or repair people.  Like anywhere, take the money (and the conditions) or go someplace else.

   The tyvek overshoes are a great idea.

   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

6. 
   TrimButcher | Jul 09, 2003 04:54pm | #6

   If I'm doing light work, I have a pair of old running shoes that are only worn indoors.  I slip them on/off at the front door as I enter/leave.

   If it's heavy work, I have a pair of slip-on low-cut steel toed shoes that are only worn indoors.

   If necessary, I'll lay down runners, either plastic or cloth.

   With slip-ons, it's a pretty modest pain to deal with.  And no, I don't think the HO is asking too much.  It's their castle.

   Regards,

   Tim Ruttan

1. 
   Arnold1 | Jul 09, 2003 09:05pm | #12

   That's a great idea.

   It definitely is the homeowner's castle. Plenty of people invest big $ in expensive carpets and wood floors.

   At my house, we never wear shoes especially because we have a baby girl crawling on the floors. Ever use a men's public restroom? I've never been in one where urine isn't on the floor. I wouldn't want someone with those shoes walking on my floors.

7. 
   rasconc | Jul 09, 2003 05:21pm | #8

   If you are working in a small area the lock together rubber mats that they sell at Sams and HD are pretty good.  They are 2x2 and can lock in to about any config, walkway through a room, protected area for tool drop zone, etc.  I have picked up a few to use in my workshop and will use them if needed. 

   I keep a roll of red rosin paper for this also.  One of my customers uses the foam underlayment for floating floors as a protective covering.  He has sanded his floor in prep for refinishing and had some other work to finish  first. 

   I like the bootie ( or is that booty?) idea, that should impress the clients much better than smelly feet.  I have offered to take mine off before. 

   My wife has an aunt that is rather A. retentive and asked my BIL to take his off when helping her, he just did not go back.  She wanted me to refinish her kitchen cabinets and I pleaded too busy.  She was up all night many nights cleaning up after the poor guy who did the job.

1. 
   FrankTate | Jul 09, 2003 07:31pm | #9

   It also could be a cultural issue.  The asian cultures tend to remove their shoes and use slippers around the house.  It does make for less time spent cleaning!

   Frank

   Edited 7/9/2003 12:42:10 PM ET by Frank Tate

1. 
   billyg83440 | Jul 09, 2003 08:03pm | #10

   Just depends on the people. Some friends of mine take their shoes off whenever they go inside. When I visit, I do the same. When I went over to help with some plumbing and was going in and out of the house several times, forget it. Actually, my kids and wife seldom wear shoes in the house. The kids wouldn't wear them anywhere given a chance.

   I hate to spend the time taking shoes on and off, so usually leave mine on most of the time. Particularly if I'm wearing boots that take some time to put on and off, I hate it.

   With friends, I take the shoes off if requested. As a contractor, getting some medical booties sounds like a great idea, not just if they request you take shoes off, but if your feet happen to be muddy that day. Still, if you're hauling in 15 trips worth of tools and construction materials, plus another 5 trips out to the truck to get that chisel or another tube of caulk; then even messing with booties makes little sense. If it's gonna be required, best add some money to the bid to cover the extra time and hassle of setting everything down, pulling on the booties, picking things back up, pulling off the booties, getting another load and repeating.

1. 
   hasbeen | Jul 09, 2003 08:27pm | #11

   For those who take their shoes off:  Do you ever go outside barefoot?  If you do, what do you do when you come back in?

   I remember a few jobs where we took off our shoes to work in a certain area such as the master suite, but I don't remember any where we simply worked without shoes.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.

1. 
   CloudHidden | Jul 09, 2003 09:21pm | #13

   >For those who take their shoes off:  Do you ever go outside barefoot?

   The funny thing is that for all my suggestion about wearing shoes for safety (not just hammers on toes, but stepping on nails or whatever), I _always_ work here barefoot. I even climb ladders outside barefoot...just more comfortable for me.

   I've had people offer to remove shoes here. I've had some who I'm pretty sure wouldn't be comfortable doing that. Certainly it's the client's perogative to make any request, but hopefully they'll be open to a range of solutions as long as they all solve the real problem. Heck, my electrician keeps separate ladders for inside finished homes vs new construction, so that the ladder feet stay clean. All sorts of ways to skin the cat.

2. 
   hasbeen | Jul 09, 2003 09:57pm | #14

   Yeah, I like working around the house barefoot or in Birks.  Recently dropped a chisel which stuck straight into the ground next to my foot, though.  I plan on continuing to be lucky!Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.

8. 
   Brudoggie | Jul 10, 2003 12:40am | #15

   Did that one time. Stepped out of a tub, right onto the escutchion plate for the shower rod. Put a nice semi-circular gash in my foot. I'm pretty sure that the blood that poured out made more of a mess, than the dust that may have been on my boots! Oh, yeah. Check your comp policy, some don't cover foot injuries, if you don't have steel toes on! That usually lets me keep my boots on.

    Brudoggie

9. 
   luvmuskoka | Jul 10, 2003 12:53am | #16

   First thing I do when I get to a customers house to bid a floor.....take off my shoes.

   Ditch

1. 
   drpunchout | Jul 10, 2003 02:34am | #17

   I spent a number of years in Turkey.  It is customary there and in other middle eastern countries to remove one's shoes on entering a home, any home from apartment to  mansion to peasant hut.  There is a collection of slippers available for guests at the front door. Floors typically are covered with thick carpets and many activities of home are  carried out on the floor (carpet), eg. eating and sleeping.  It  is remarkable how much cleaner these houses stay.  And there is something very definitively "at home" about removing shoes and putting on slippers.  Back in the States we have tried from time to time to enforce the no-shoes custom, with the same super-clean result, but it is hard to sustain.

10. 
    Piffin | Jul 10, 2003 02:45am | #18

    I work on super high end houses sometimes here. Dust is not even allowed in some of them. One reason I am trusted with those homes is the respect I show the house and the owners wishes.

    I take great care to protect good floors when working in them but for the occasional handyman visit, I have some pull-on booties like the surgeons wear in my pouch. They are much simpler to slip on and off with each trip to the truck than taking shoes off. I have a case of them for subs in the truck too. I had one sub who reported he would suffer agonizing pain without his special arch supports and refused to take his shoes off when requested by the owner. I wasn't there to run interference at the moment so things almost got out of hand. The booties satisfy everybody and provide a little jobsite or lunchtime humour. And they impress the heck out of customers.

    .

    Excellence is its own reward!

11. 
    JeffBuck | Jul 10, 2003 03:26am | #19

    I've done tons of work inside in my socks.

    Probably everything that could be done inside aside from framing and drywall.

    What's the big deal?

    As a rule.....the area from the door to the work site gets a drop too.

    I also avoid wearing a toolbelt when doing cabinet work......and when going in and out a furnished home. Too easy to scratch something with that cat's paw ya forgot was in there.

    I bet you won't get many referals after saying no to the shoe's off.

    Jeff

    Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

     Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

1. 
   caseyr | Jul 10, 2003 03:48am | #21

   My local safety supply store has the Tyvek boot covers for the clean room "bunny suits".  The boot covers are sold separately for about a buck apiece (maybe a little more), which is probably cheaper than medical booties.  Unfortunately, they don't have the elastic tops, but a little duct tape can keep them up.

   Speaking about working in Birkenstocks, I used to quite often.  One time I cut off about a 4" end from a 2x4 and let it drop down on the top of my foot.  One of the points of it hit between the straps of Birks and even though it only weighed a couple of ounces managed to hurt like hades.  It was 20 years ago, and that spot still hurts when touched - must have hit that one nerve that hasn't been frazzled...

12. 
    andybuildz | Jul 10, 2003 03:38am | #20

    And how many times do I wish I could say, "mind if I work in yer house in my bare feet"?

     Around my house I wear clogs (leather ones) which are easy to slip off and on when I come in and go out of my house.

     Personally, I'm more comfortable barefoot and the respect for the new work goes with out saying.

     I wish more folks were like that.

    Gotta love it!

        Be toesies

                     andy

     

     

    In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''

    http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   chucksteroo | Jul 12, 2003 01:44am | #41

   Last house I worked barefoot in was new const Craftsman style post and beam with Brazilian rosewood floors. Fresh high gloss poly finish so everybody was in barefeet. at least until I dropped my 14.4 drill on my big toe and opened a gusher. I went back o tennies and won't work with less foot protection than that. What does OSHA have to say about this?

2. 
   edwardh1 | Jul 12, 2003 03:20pm | #44

   some people in some trades might be clueless.

   my wife hired a plumber to replace a small water heater in her office bathroom. office is all carpet.

   they arrived with no drop cloth of any kind. looked surprised when i asked.

   10 years later best floor tile place in town, worker sits the glue bucket down on carpet with nothing under it. no problem but what is it a macho thing?

   hey man i never make a mistake??????????

1. 
   steve | Jul 12, 2003 03:39pm | #45

   its all about respect guys

   respect for our clients homes, it is their home after all

   respect for each others work, ive seen tile, electrical, plumbing guys put their tools on my brand new countertop that took me three days to fab and install.

   the first tools that come into a house when i start a job are dropcloths, shop vac and a dustpan and broom, makes a great first impression

   and at the end of the job(and every night) i like to leave the jobsite neat and tidy

   if nothing else its nice to arrive the next morning to a neat clean job site

   shoes, boots etc well it depends, new house with no finished flooring, keep the mud outside, reno depends on the site, but anyway lots of drop cloths everywhere

   and always leave the jobsite cleaner than it was when you arrived

   if its a major reno, consider keeping a cleaning service on the books, believe me thats the best thing i ever did, for about 100 bucks the house is spotless caulking is not a piece of trim

13. 
    bill_1010 | Jul 10, 2003 03:55am | #22

    Youll probably encounter this more so can i suggest buying some painters dropcloths made of canvas.

    Having these available would show more professionalism, and thats not a bad thing. 

    If you are doing handyman services, im sure painting might come into play so it will be a bonus having some in your inventory.

1. 
   Snort | Jul 10, 2003 04:21am | #23

   Personally, I hate working in socks, but after carpet is down in a new house, sometimes we gotta.

   Did the Tyvek bootie thing, went through 2 cases running shoe while cutting in the garage...and the booties don't render the rocks stuck in your shoe soles harmless

   Best we've found, unless there really is a NO shoes in the house policy, which I completly respect, is two pairs of shoes...one being clean. I think socks carry more crap around than a pair of Top Siders™... but we do whatever the client want's, then bitch and make fun of them later<G> EliphIno!

1. 
   woodroe | Jul 10, 2003 07:18am | #24

   OSHA requires shoes for carpenters. Not sure exactly what the requirements are, but I believe they specify a closed toe and heel. Steel toes are not required for carpenters.

1. 
   Snort | Jul 11, 2003 01:57am | #27

   We tip toe in stocking feet as a courtesy. OSHA requires a lot of things that we routinely ignore on residential jobs, and it depends on the supers for commercial work...I've had to replace cord ends and wear long pants, but never had any shoe guff.

   But, the next time shoe removal seems unreasonable, I might mention the OSHA hotline<G> EliphIno!

14. 
    steve | Jul 10, 2003 05:59pm | #25

    when i turn up to a job, first thing a always carry in is drop cloths and a shop vac, no matter what

    makes an initial great impression

    drop cloths are cheap, i just use old bed sheets, and keep them clean

    caulking is not a piece of trim

1. 
   BarryO | Jul 10, 2003 09:49pm | #26

   This type of thing may sound strange to some suburbanites, but it seems to be S.O.P. in rural areas (at these it is around here). When you're miles from pavement, any shoe worn outside inevitibly has mud/dirt/dust, etc., on the soles, all the time.  We don't allow shoes inside, and neither does anyone we know.

   Even in the 'burbs, expecting to be able to wear work boots on a nice new finish foor seems unreasonable.  These things are fragile.  I can understand the workplace safety/OSHA concerns, but runners and pads, or booties, should be used.  The argument that the floor might be damaged by a dropped tool doesn't fly -- it's jut even more of a reason for protecting the floor.

1. 
   SHazlett | Jul 11, 2003 02:06am | #28

   folks,I would just like to mention that the shoe/no shoe cultural thing works both ways----------

   you may insult just as many people taking your shoes OFF as leaving them on.

   When I was growing up it was absolutely taboo to go around our house in socks or barefoot. My dad would step on our toes pretty hard if he caught us bare foot----( he also poked us hard with a fork if he caught you with an elbow on the dinner table!)

   I can just about imagine what old dad would have done to anybody who visited our house and took their shoes off LOL.

   BTW----when my dad was growing up HIS father was a carpenter----and it was completely expected that if a homeowner was having work done on their house---the homeowner provided a full lunch.Everybody---painters ,carpenters,bricklayers, plumbers---a place set at the table for everybody.

1. 
   Snort | Jul 11, 2003 02:27am | #29

   You gotta live in Amish country, it was like that where I grew up...they didn't call a table a groaning board for nothing<G> EliphIno!

15. 
    92588 | Jul 11, 2003 02:50am | #30

    i must have 800.00 of tarps. bottom side spotless. name always goes up. boots stay on. if i like you a may buy a new one for your bed

1. 
   jocobe | Jul 11, 2003 03:40am | #31

   I mostly repair windows and doors.....a service business.  I have various size tarps......nice ones, not rags.  I also almost always vaccum where I've worked.....I use a Sears small shop vac that'll blow and suck.....it looks like a suitcase and slings over my shoulder.  I also almost always wear shoe booties when I go into a customer's home..   http://www.pro-tect.com/shoe_booties.shtml  My customers always make comments about my neatness and I get a lot of referrals.  I believe it really makes an impression.

   jocobe

1. 
   IMERC | Jul 11, 2003 04:31am | #32

   Here in the boondocks.. Shoes off is a requirement. Mud, barn yard and a host of "other". Carpet is not a common thing for jst thes reasons.

   Frequent visitor/worker.. 2nd pair of inside shoes available.

2. 
   VaTom | Jul 11, 2003 04:57am | #34

   "My customers always make comments about my neatness and I get a lot of referrals.  I believe it really makes an impression."

   Quite a few years ago I ran a burglar alarm business.  Typically an office worker would get a referral for me, I'd make the sale and installation, and then put in a system for pretty much everybody else in the office.  I tried to be average price, always a bid.  The one thing everybody loved, and mentioned, was my clean-up.  They were thrilled.  I never mentioned making $35/hr for running a vacuum.  Ignorance was bliss.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

16. 
    darcey | Jul 11, 2003 04:52am | #33

    I work in a very, very busy little TND (traditional neighborhood developement). So as not to eat up our valuable farmland, we are building in the dreded red dirt that stains everything it touches, especially carpet (ugh!). I am the Warranty and Customer Service Manager, and I am also responsible for preparing for final inspection and doing/overseeing the final punch.

    On the near-finished homes, as a rule, I leave several sets of booties/shoe covers just inside each exterior door. Then, they are available for any sub that may have tasks to address inside. My company is more than willing to bear the expense, because it is worth saving the costly repair from damage to the carpet and bamboo flooring.

    On warranty work, as I am usually present to overlook, I hand them out as necessary to subs or our guys.

    The main reason I use this method is beacuse OSHA has been visiting us lately. There is no way I would ask any of them to break the rules, due to the possibility of fines. Like others have mentioned, many of the guys have just come from a muddy/dusty site. (But, as well, there are some I'd rather they NOT take off their shoes.)

    Just my take. . .

    darcy

17. 
    sdr25 | Jul 11, 2003 07:33am | #35

    My 2 cents.

     

    When making an initial call to measure I ALWAYS take off my boots, even if the HO insist I leave them on.

     

    When it comes time to do the work the boots stay on, but I cover the path between exit and the work area using drop cloths, 24" carpet runners or even the self adhesive plastic floor covering. On occasion I use the surgeon shoe covers in place of. Customers appreciate the respect their home is shown and it’s minor details like this that gets me repeat business and referrals

     

     

    Scott R.

    
    

    
    

    ---

    Edited 7/11/2003 12:53:39 AM ET by Scott R.

1. 
   DavidThomas | Jul 11, 2003 08:46am | #36

   Here in Alaska, the majority of households are no-shoes. I find it a bother - I'll accept using the broom a few times a week. But with snow in the winter and gravel being tracked in all year (not a lot of paved driveways or roads), I understand.

   I really like Merrell's "jungle mocs" and the mesh version for summer. I can slip them off, hands-free and put them on with one hand while standing. But they have full toe and heel coverage. I've also done 22-mile day hikes up 8,600 granite monoliths in them. In the Seattle airport, it is easy to spot the Alaskans because they are all wearing those same Merrell shoes. REI and Sierra Trading Post have them.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

1. 
   brucepirger | Jul 11, 2003 10:00am | #37

   Speaking of shoes....How's your foot Piffin?

1. 
   DanT | Jul 11, 2003 03:57pm | #38

   Village,

   I do the same type of work.  We always lay a runner down just inside the door to use as a walk off mat.  We also cover the entire area around the work site and if the floor is an issue we put down a layer of cardboard under the drop.  We also charge for the set up time, material and tear down time.  And if asked we take off our boots, no problem.  DanT

2. 
   Piffin | Jul 12, 2003 12:44am | #40

   Well, I was thinking of trying to find that thread again. I finished the last dose of anbtibiotics last night. There is still a point of redness and pain on the knucle of one toe but it seems pretty well knocked out..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   brucepirger | Jul 12, 2003 01:53am | #42

   Glad to hear it Piff...but keep a close eye...a little bit left might turn into something again.

   Great to hear you are and at 'em!

2. 
   ehBeth | Jul 12, 2003 05:43am | #43

   I'll chime in with a word from a home-owner (me) who is afraid of her GC. ok, maybe it's respect <grin>.  He did a lot of work for me about 6 years ago - including new wood floors throughout the first floor.  For nearly 3 years he dropped in every couple of months to check my floors - making sure I wasn't letting anyone wear shoes in the house.  Now, he just drops by annually if there isn't something I need him for. 

   Now, the guy is an artist, a bit demanding at times, almost a prima donna, but he does great work - and no one is wearing shoes in here, because I don't want to lose Patrick.  Even the S.O. has accepted that Patrick is the boss when it comes to 'shoes off in the house'.

   So, shoes off!

   I do appreciate anyone who takes their shoes off automatically - without a request.  I think it's pretty obvious that this is a shoe-free house, so that bit of observation by someone coming to give a quote or do work is noted by me. If you can't play a sport, be one.

18. 
    Texfan | Jul 11, 2003 10:22pm | #39

    Take off your shoes if you are taking they're money. It's their house, their rules. Once I have carpet and floors in my specs and customs, noboby wears shoes in them including prospects. A sign is posted at the door.  I'm one of those people that would tell you to take em off b4 coming in.