I started taking bids on getting my windows replaced in my home. Im fairly new at this bid process cuz I usually do all my own work or have a friend in the biz help me.
I know what manufacturer and series/style of window I want. So I got my first bid. Now comes the next guy. I tell him the series and manufacture ect and then I told him what the other guys price was. Is this fair? I started feeling bad and thinking maybe I wasnt giveing the first guy a fair shake. Im still gonna get another one from someone else before I make my decision. But I want to be fair about the whole deal as well as get the best price.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw………
Replies
It's not really kosher to tell the other bidders what others bid. At least, at first. Typically, you get three independent bids, then, if you have a favorite bidder, you give them a second shot to match or beat the low bid, understandign that the low bid is probably low for a reason. And your favorite may tell you to go to (*&^, he won't work for nothing.
Occasionally I've had a customer or potential customer show me someone elses bid and I always felt a little uncomfortable with it because when I was doing project management work in industry, bids, no matter how small or large, were confidential documents not to be shared among other potential bidders.
There were some legal and ethical reasons for that practice in the private business sector, but a HO is pretty much free to do what he wants. And there's the potential for a HO to try to play bidders against each other, a game I won't play.
My personal policy is to not put too much stock in someone elses bid, because I must make my calculations based on my own methods, my understanding of what the customer wants, time schedule, equipment, level of craftsmanship, mileage, labor costs, cost of materials, etc. Others may do it differently, but I don't see much advantage for me personally.
Jules Quaver for President 2004
I would suggest the correct way would be show the other guys bid with the price and ID hidden to ensure identical bids on the same things.
two schools of thought... ONE: if someone was to show me the other guys bid... I'd tell em... "looks like a fair deal to me" and leave... because if i underprice him they will just shop my bid to someone else... (around here if you get anyone to come out period to give you a bid you better take it and get them to start work before they leave..
two: things can always be done cheaper
I agree.
As the HO...I'd not concern myself with the bottom line price as the decision maker.....I'd base it on what the guy said they'd do.
Lotsa ways to install windows...some good..some bad.
I'd not tell what someone else said they'd charge either.
I'd wait till the end and see how it all adds up.....the "most expensive" could end up being the best bargain.
As the contractor...I really don't care what other guys are bidding either. If I do hear I'm way over priced.....I'll try to find out what they're leaving out.........I'd do the same if I heard I was the lowest bidder.....which is never my goal!
I generally charge more than most I run up against........because I generally have everything in the bid that I need. I don't low ball and go back for more. My hourly price is probably right at the upper end of the middle.
And ...I don't match the low bid price. I don't wanna match the guy that lives in the sticks and works just enough to scrape by...he may do a great job.....so let him have it.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Ditto on all that Jeff said. I have had this happen a few times. Usually the person is trying to get me into the range of their lowest bidder. My price is the same no matter what. I too am not the cheapest. I suppose if I was $50 bucks high and new it I might drop down but not more than that. DanT
I'd never drop down the $50 bucks... unless i dropped something out of the job...
If you tell someone"this is what i'll do and this is the best price i can give you for doing this job" then cut $50 a: you have lied b: they think welll if 50 why not $100.00 or a $1000.00 .... man who would walk n walmart ad off less than the price they had marked?
as i've said in other posts... People deal with People I'm on both sides on this deal sometimes i'm the buyer and sometimes i'm the seller... many times as the buyer i've had guys i liked and wanted to work with put in too low of a bid... I know what something should cost within 5% before i get the bid (i've been way wrong before) If a guy is too low I'll be the first one to tell him and go through the job step by step with him and show him why he's low... for me to save $500.00 on someone elses back... is wrong... on the other end i run into guys who bid way high who also have no clue what they are doing and the bid covers them so they can hire the guy who will do it for nothing... (i always ask who will be doing the work)
You must have misunderstood what I was saying. I meant if I knew that another contractor bid $2500 on a job because the client showed me that contractors bid and then I worked up my price and it came out $2550 and I wanted the job I might drop the $50 to get it. But not more than that. I never play lets make a deal with the client. The price they see is what I am willing to do it for. DanT
and i'd still say to them... if you think it's worth save'n $50 to let them do it over me... (unless i knew the other guy did better work than me)... i just hate to ever see it come to back'n down... i think it sets a tone for the job....
now i have gotten a bid back from someone i liked and trusted and said DAMN what did i miss here.... it just happened with a 80k plumbing bid... he had 10k in it for cutting concrete (there is alot of cutting) since i have concrete cutters,dumptrucks and bobcats and labor... we agreed that he'd mark very cut... we'd do the cuts and clean the trenches he'd double check it was done like he wanted and that he'd have plenty of room...everything would be clean both sides of the trenches and it's inside work that i can heat to at least 50 degrees and i'd make sure no other trades were work'n while his guys were .... he dropped his price 20k and showed me he was make'n money at that... he gets 90% of my work is a good guy does good work and works with me on jobs that are sometimes tight...
i took away all the grunt work.... (plumber rates to dig are the same as plumber rates to plumb)... got other trades out of his way ... gave him a heated indoor work area when it's 15 degrees outside... (yes they can pull their trucks inside also)... and saved 20k... his guys are fighting to work on this job... i furnish coffee all day also... and it's not unknown for me to buy everyone lunch...
Again, you missed my point. There is no "setting th tone for the job". The customer never knew it happened. The customer in this situation is supposed to have shown his other bid. I now know his price. I go home. I figure my price and am $50 higher. I decide I am willing to lower it $50 to assure I get the job because I want too. No other reason. Customer assumes I am the same or slightly lower. I chose to do it. Customer never knows it happened. No setting the tone! I don't understand what you were pointing out in you example. Are you saying I should buy the other subs coffee, do their grunt work or get them to lower their bid. Anyway this is all a mute point. It is a fictional acount. I just had this happen at Christmas time and I didn't lower my bid a dime, got the job and in reality was the highest bidder of 4. DanT
Dan...
that's funny U said $50. I just dropped my price to "match the other bidder" on a job in Dec. The company I do lots of subbing for thought one of my bids "way outta line".
After fishing other bids.....seems only one other guy could actually get to them in time......I was $50 higher then his.
I already had contracted with the HO's to do other work aside from what the company was doing.....so I didn't want another guy going in and underbidding that work too.....so I was given the chance to "match his price".
The owner just wanted to save face. He wasted everyone's time...and cost himself the lead carp rate for 8 hrs as he waited to get the other bid.....so I let him off the hook and dropped $50.
MAterials weren't there as they shoulda been....and the lead didn't get other materials selections from the customers as he should have....so I handled all that to get in and get out.
I was tempted to charge the 3 hrs I spent running around.....
Instead...I invoiced as usual...then included a little paragragh about how nice it was of me to get their job straightened out...work with the customer.....how it all worked out because I know the supplier and was able to just charge it to their account.....
basically how having me there saved them alot of headache.....as the job was done between X-Mas and New Yrs..when they were shut down....
And how I was sure that next time i was "something like..oh ..say....$50 over".....I'm sure my price won't get shopped around!
I then thanked them for understanding that my kid gets hungry and was glad I worked with a company that'd expedite a check when needed......
So....yeah....I'll drop $50.....if it fills in dead space..and I can end up making it worth far more than the tiny drop in profit!
It's all how ya play the game. JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Jeff,
1:30 Am! What are you? An insominiac? Don't sleep much myself. Your example is exactly what I was refering to but lacked a specific example. It simply depends on the situation. In general I don't drop my number. But if I was going to be there anyway and as in your situation you were protecting your already staked out territory (sort of speak) then I would not hesitate to adjust my bid given the oppurtunity. Just good business. Much snow in Pittsburgh? We are getting a bunch right now that you will see soon I am sure. DanT
This is some great insight for me thanks very much. But I want to say that I didnt let Contractor #2 actually see the bid what I let him see was the price per window and pointed out what the cost of the garden window was. I liike contractor #2 cuz he was a small builder where contractor#1 was a glass company. Im still getting another bid from another local contractor and another local glass company (both about 2 blocks from my house and not a replacement window specialty shop with all the "discounts" and extras thrown in at no extra cost cuz someone is paynig for the advertisements 3 times a week in the local papers ect.
I am not worried about 50 -100 bucks here and there but If I find one closest to my budget (which I also told them) that is a consideration for me. I dont mind being over 100-200 bucks (contractor #1 was right in there) but if say contractor #2 can give me the upgraded windows for say 200-300 bucks more Id go for it. Contractor #2 impressed me. He seemed a lot more knowledgeable and discussed different things with me which I appreaciated. He told me ways I could cut cost by doing a few of the things myself which I wanted to do anyway. I just want to be fair to the guys coming out to give me bids I dont want to hose them or feel that i hosed them.
Rez,
My brother the reason I aient installing them myself is they are large windows and would take 2 people one is a large garden window. My good bud Slim Shadey just got sent back over to Paki. Him and I exchange labor, He helped install my kitchen cabs (they were made here at darkworks 3/4 birch ply on all 4 sides and 1/4 on the backthe bases were about 35-48" long w/ hickory end panels and f/f they were a load, I helped him wire and drywall his bathroom he's adding to his house but he's gone. The only other guy I know would charge me to "help me" and He would take until the second coming to be over to help me and he'd charge me about the same as if I paid someone to do the whole job. I still got other things to do also to finish up my kitchen remodel, add a circuit change some lighting adding some boxes finish plumbing in the small bath ect. This way I can also help the economy :>)
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Oh. In that case you can go ahead then.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
where you live rez maybe I can bribe ya with a good meal..:>)
Id ask Gunner but the rabbit well he still hasnt got over the last time..:>)
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Edited 1/26/2003 1:15:43 AM ET by RonT
NE Ohio.
With the weather you've got just a one way plane ticket outta even things out.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
"Id ask Gunner but the rabbit well he still hasnt got over the last time..:>)"
I am trying to disect that sentence.
I am not sure if you mean that Gunner has not gotten over eating rabbit? Or if your rabbit has not gotten over having Gunner visit?
Id tell you guys but but but it wasnt pretty...:>)
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Ron
I've actually had potential customers do that before. I know several of them showed me a "copy" of the previous bid. My bet was that they changed the price otherwise I wouldnt be looking at a copy I don't think. Either way, makes no difference to me because my work is my work and my price is my price.
I try and make my proposals pretty detailed to let them know every detail I'm going to use.
For instance, and a good example I think is: I just gave my customer in a vewy old gorgous house I'm working on a contract for a mud and tile job over radiant heat. I wrote in the contract underlined, that I was using a liquid latex mortar additive besides water in the cement. This added to my 6x9 floor about another $100 in additive.
I KNOW the other bids she got they only used water in the mix..she told me so and also told me she didnt want to nickle and dime me and only wanted what I'd do in my own house. Needless to say I'm starting the tile work next week and my price was the highest out of three!
Guess what? You can make real good money by being honest and being a detail person in every way......and doing the right thing. I know, me for one want all the precautions that a good job involves in spite of the cost because in the long haul......
BE honest, be detailed
NAmaste
andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Only thing I question is if you are going to be happy letting someone else do your own windows?:O)
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Ron, why don't you just get a per window labor price and a per window material price and if you do some of your own work you should know what a fair price sounds like. Then you won't have to waste the time of five guys who are doing nothing but giving you free info.
Call me a 'do nuthin' will ya! Why, why why...you Beast.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Thats what contractor #1 gave me is a per window price. I havent recieved the bid from Contractor #2 yet. How is getting bids from 3 different contractors waisting there time? If you know a better way then please tell me. I dont lke the hassel either. I wish priceing was all standardized but unfortunately it isnt.
Trust me if rez came out here he wouldnt be doin nuttin , With the weather we're having he'd be at the beach, the mountains lying out in the sun blinding the rabbit eating bar b q w/ the kids going to the park, riding bikes but I dont think he'd be messin with the windows much..:>)
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Edited 1/26/2003 11:26:23 AM ET by RonT
Rez would be Roaring...in competition with the surf.Jules Quaver for President 2004
Bid any way you want, show them anything you want, just ask the same of all.
I only ask I bid on the same job, or I am just wasting your time and mine.
The last time I took on a new client was over 5 years ago, so take a good look at who is bidding. Be really comfy with the sub you choose, because they will be ripping your house apart.
You will know the right one when you see them.
hmmmmmmm.
I sit here wondering what exactly this Q&A is about. Because the subject at hand is one where Ron is hosting an auction.
Now, if Ron is only sharing specs, styles, brands, ie; the garden window, details,(a very good practice) and then soliciting "bids" base only on that info, great!
But if those specification include the actual costs proposed by other firms, that tells me many things about the future of this relationship.
I'd walk.........................as politely as I could.
Ron I think you've gotten some good advice here but I thought you and the
other readers might like to checkout these (pdf) documents
Guideline on Bidding Procedures
Guideline on Bid Shopping and Bid Peddling
Guideline
on “Scope” Bidding for Private Work
Guideline on Bid Errors and Adjustments
They all come from Guidelines
for a Successful Construction Project (formerly
the Construction Industry Survival Kit) a set of documents published jointly
by
the American Subcontractors Association,
Associated General Contractors of America and the
Associated Specialty Contractors, Inc.
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In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I recieved the bid from contractor #2 today and I told him I wanted him to do the work. The main reason was based on 2 things. 1) I thought he was the most professional and experianced He took the time to discuss things with me pointed out things the first guy didnt. The 2nd was I felt our relationship was better meaning Im dealing with a individual and not a company. He did come in about 200 bucks less. But to me that was not the deciding factor. It was the confidence he and communication skills he exhibited. im not going to take anymore bids on this but I want to thank you all for responding it definately has been a learning experiance for me.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Wow according to your info on "bid peddleing" I guess I messed up. Well now my next question would be how does one get competitive bids from different contractors and not be considered bid peddling or How should I put the job out for bid and do it right and not hose anyone? Because I assure you that was not my intention which is why I started this post.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Ron we all live and learn. I don't think it was your intention to hose anybody
either. In a sense by not bid shopping you are also protecting your own interests
in that you are not dangling any carrots or enticements out there in front
of a contractor that could possibly temp him or her into selling you a job
they can't really complete for that low bid price.
You probably heard this before but I guess it's always worth repeating
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In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I was in that business once, replacement windows. Did the big commercial ones made from aluminum, in schools, hospitals, etc., but I know something about the residential side. For a project like yours you likely cannot get two bids that are quoting the same products, and for that reason, comparison of bids is done very carefully, looking beyond price, because you are not looking at apples compared to apples. For products, if you have a dealer/installer in your area doing the Andersen "Renewal" line of replacement windows, look at them. In my opinion they are the best, absolutely.
But back to bid comparisons and letting others know the prices. It is only done in a very carefully orchestrated situation wherein the bid taker has drawn up a very detailed work scope and specification set, and instructed bidders that they are to bid exactly what is called for in the documents. Usually a bid form is given and the bidders must use the form only, not their own document. Bids are sometimed opened in a room with the bidders present, and the bid prices made known to all. Hardly ever is a anothers bid bid shown to a competitor. And this is the way most public work is bid and awarded. In residential work of any kind, especially window replacement, I can't imagine it being done, or conceive of its value. Commercial and industrial contractors are prepared to bid this way. Residential guys aren't.
Ron,
I wouldn't give out others bids. lots of folks have covered it mostly. It does give the appearance of auctioning. The hard part is knowing if who you get bids from will do a good job. Hard to tell, even with recommendations.
baiscly you won't have the info to know whether your comparing apples to apples.
even think about how a bid is put together. a difference of $1/hr in actual labor can add up to a lot in total price if there is enough hours, even a small difference in direct material cost could lead to a noticeable difference after you include overhead
BTW someone made a comment about "free" info. Nothing is free, the costs of the contracts they get should cover the cost of "free" bids or they are not doing their overhead right.
bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet
I think it's highly unprofessional to tell one bidder what another bid. And what amazes me most is it's usually another general contractor who does it. Customers will say something like "...your price is a little higher than so an so..." but I recently had a general say "...your bid was about 10% higher than the other bid we're considering, can you do something for us?" Yeah, I can hang up before I call you the low life that you are.
Give them a little respect, Ron. Tell them you aren't going to dicker, or necessarilly make your decision based on the bottom line, but you want their best price first time - no negotiating. Then take it or leave it. That's fair. You're not wasting their time or your own.
so what the hell's wrong with them asking U to drop 10%?
Asking never hurt.....would they be low life's if the asked to pay 10% more?
Someone asking you to drop 10% is just a great opprutunity to tell them/sell them why you are worth far more than the 10% price difference.
I ask for sh#t 10% off all the time! Anything I consider negotiable...I negotiate. Sometime it works ..sometime it don't. Never hurts to ask though.
And.....Ron's the customer here....nothing to be "professional" about at all.
I said earlier...I don't shop prices against other prices...but I sure as hell ask if that's the best they can do me for.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
"so what the hell's wrong with them asking U to drop 10%?"
It implies that I padded the bid in the first place.
Doin' business that way might be fine for you, Jeff. More power to ya. But I'll warn you that there are many places where you'd be insulting people with that kind of stuff. Of course, most of them would politely decline doing business with you so you'd probably never realize you'd insulted them.
Jim just for arguements sake what is the difference between comparing bids like I did and say comparing tool prices. Many folks go get a price on a tool then go to another and ask it they'll beat it as some places say they'll beat anyones price by 10%. So why is that ok and comparing bids not?
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
because it's not Jim's 10%?
I still say...never hurts to ask.
I seriously doubt I hurt any of my suppliers feelings by asking for the family discount. Maybe it's a different way of life around here......but old time suppliers get their feelings hurt if ya don't swear at them every now and then...that's when they think you're mad at them.
A line my Dad used early and often...when getting prices from his long standing and favorite lumber yard....
To be said immediately after getting the quote......always to be said face to face....never impersonal ..like over the phone....
"Jesus Chr#st...I wanted the regular framing stuff.....not the gold plated sh#t!"
Then...after watching them load it......Ya gotta say..."OK that's enough for the rocking horses...now where the straight stuff??"
Must be a different way of life.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Ron while I know you were asking that question of Jim I thought I'd throw in my version of that answer.
I never do that when I shop for tools.
I'll look around a little for the best price but I will never ask an outift to beat another outfits price.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing bids, Ron. It's the smart thing to do, and everyone in business expects you to do it.
I just don't think it's okay to tell one person what another bid, and ask them if they can do a little better. It calls their integrity into question, and demeans the work they put into preparing the bid the first time. An honest man will give you an honest bid, what he considers fair for that specific job. If you agree it's fair, you might hire him, or you might not, but to ask him to lower his price because someone else bid the same job cheaper just doesn't sit well with me.
And no, I have never once asked a tool dealer to match another dealer's price. Wouldn't think of it. Each dealer's price is clearly marked on what they sell. If I think it's a fair price, I buy it. If it's too high, I don't. Simple. Fair. No hard feelings. Square dealin'.
You gotta understand though, I'm not saying anyone else should think this way. This is just the way I am. Maybe the way I was raised, I don't know. We're all different. What I consider square dealin', you might think a fool's approach. You asked, and I spouted my opinion. I don't think any more or less of you for following your own inner voice - you either Jeff.
I'm not a builder, but I sometimes get asked a similar question about time estimates for software projects. I always ask what management wants me to take out of a project. If they want to reduce the time, but don't want to reduce the scope, I'll take another look at it, but if I don't find any glaring mistakes, I make it a point to come back with an estimate that's a least a little bit higher than the original.
As I read about the asking for a better price thing, I thought about another thread from perhaps a year+ ago either here or at JLC. That thread was about contractor pricing. One guy in trying to improve his business bottom line added 10% (maybe because that number was used as an example this came to mind) to his bid, just to see what would happen. His bid was accepted and everyone on the thread congratulated him for getting more dollars.
Fair and reasonable are always nebulas and are like the 4 blind men and the elephant bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet
Jimbo,
I dont doubt your opinion or say its wrong. I know opinions are just that. I know and really do believe you have the utmost integrity. I was never doubting that. Believe me when I tell you this that if I was living up in the NW still you'd have the job. Id just call ya and tell "ta ya get your butt over and put ma winders in" ,"Honny cut him a check." The reason I started this thread is because I honestly didnt know.
Jeff ya i give the guys at my yards a bad time time to. Its almost as if they expect it now stuff like How much? What next yer gonna be wantin my first born or 3 lbs of flesh... stuff like that. But I only buy at 2 different yards. My favorites "what you still work here..Ill fix that., and Look at the head on that one as well as Man the things ya see when ya dont have a gun...." and i know some yards are cheaper but I like the guys and they give great info. In fact the guy who is installing the windows i got his name from a guy atone of the yards.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
Ron- Why don't you just cut thru the crap and go to Home Peephole and hire them to put your windows in?Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
I was going to get a bid afrom Blowes cuz they sell superior (brand) windows but then someone dropped and cold drink on me under the table and I woke up ..:>) actually I got contractor number 2 coming out friday and Im gonna sign a contract with him.
At Darkworks Customer satisfaction Job One..Yea yea were all over it , I ll have it done by next Tuesday Oh yea I need another draw.........
I was in commercial contracting for a while, and when asked by bidders how their quotes looked, always told the lowest qualified bidder that he "was looking good," while telling the others that their bids were "high." The best and most competitive subs would, if hearing news called "high," try to wring all possible excess out of their number by rechecking quantities, supplier pricing, etc., and then amend their quote to try to get into the game. My experience with residential work versus commercial is that there seems to be a lot less bid followup on the part of the subs quoting work. They seem to submit a quote and wait for a phone call. In commercial work, the phones are ringing all the time with the question, "how do I look?" The commercial guys with their followup, pretty much know whether they have the job by the time the GC is buying the sub packages. Why are the residential guys so mute? Do I owe all responsible bidders a call when I have made up my mind to commit, and tell the (I hate to use this word . . . it will generate some flak posts, I'm sure) losers that I am going with someone else?
Though we rarely bid out our subs, I always call the high bids to tell them that they will not be getting the work. They probably wouldn't call themselves. Maybe too busy. I don't feel that I owe it to them but I will be working with them in the future and this is an easy enough courtesy.
I'm pretty much in the same camp as Jim on this one. I think when a potential
client (whether a professional or home owner) as Jim says ""...your
bid was about 10% higher than the other bid we're considering, can you do something
for us?" that's okay only
under certain circumstances. In responding to another post in the "Overhead
costs" discussion I think I sort of illustrated at one point what
I think is and what shouldn't be negotiable.
In the first example of how I would present a project price I had said how
I would substitute and different door for the one one originally chosen or
specified and that could be used to adjust the total project price. In Ron's
case if he was to ask me "Hey your 10% higher than this other contractor but
I have more confidence in you doing the job and I would like to g with you
can you do something for me?" I would make the offer to substitute a different
window that he's specified but also point out that since the cost of
the windows represents approximately 50% of the project price to get that 10%
reduction
I will have to use a window that is at least 20% less expensive. The
question then is, is that something that the client (Ron) is willing to concede
to get
the lower cost project? In Ron's case I'm guessing it's not.
On certain larger more difficult or more complicated jobs I could offer
the client services to research and perform a value engineering analysis although
then
they have to consider is it worth it to pay (because we don't do that for
free)
for
us to perform a value engineering analysis to find ways to reduce the price.
As I pointed out in part two of that other post I made in the "Overhead
costs" discussion. I still absolutely NEVER show what my figures
for
overhead and profit are. Those items are not negotiable. I think most
of the time when a client asks you if you can do it for less that's in reality
what they are asking you to make concessions on and like Jim Blodgett I think
many general
contractors are amongst the worst and they should know better. Or perhaps they
do know better and are just being Machiavellian when they put that kind of question
too you. I had one GC who used to put the question to me by saying "Could you
sharpen your pencil for me on this one?" I'd then give him a disingenuous naive
reply: "but I don't use a pencil, we're computerized".
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In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Jerry-
Love the "but we're computerized" bit.....lol. I worked for a VP once who used the "sharpen your pencil" line on every sub. and it eventual came back to bite him. He used to get three bids on everything, and if the bids were say, $10k, $12k, and $14k, he'd call the low guy and tell him "I've got another number at $9k- if you can do it for that, we've got a deal." The subs got so tired of it that they eventually realized he was playing games (the subs around here talk to each other frequently). I was listening on the speaker phone once when his low guy (low by about $20k on a $150k contract) told him "well, if you've got another contractor for less, go ahead and use him- we don't need the work that badly, and we won't be bidding to you anymore." His face turned white when he realized that he'd have to go with the 2nd bidder, at a cost of an additional $20k to the boss. I just sat there grinning from ear to ear..............
Bob
bob... it's hard not to get bit in the a*s if you lie to your subs... wonder if your guy ever figured that out ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore