Ok, let me ask a bit of a novice question (how’s that for teeing this up?). My wife and I are building a home. Well, we’re contracting it through a friend…so technically HE’S building it. So far it’s going very well. In fact it’s far exceeding my expectations given that it’s a custom home (about 3200 s.f.) and we’ve made a number of changes to the blueprints, windows, kitchen layout, etc. (Yes, I know…ideal customers, huh?) However I’m trying not to get too excited at this point since we’re only framing.
Here’s my question: how do subs feel about the homeowner “chatting” with them? I don’t mean interuppting their work to talk about the election or the weather. I mean asking them how they feel about the particular thing they’re working on. At present I’m a bit amazed at how hands-off we’ve been on-site, besides taking the required pictures daily to update out of town family members. I work plenty and I like just talking to my builder and hearing about the progress, giving him answers when he needs them, etc. However there are others (in my office of course) that regale me with stories about how they talked daily with the subs to get an idea of how things were going, scheduling, quality of work, etc.
Should I be more chatty???
Thanks, Rob
Replies
Maybe a little ... maybe you should not say more than good morning. The sub has a contract with the GC to build his part of the work in a certain way. The gc is selling you a complete integrated system (the house), hopefully with all the components thought out and working as a unit.
Suppose you start talking with the plumbers helper. Maybe he thinks copper pipe is the best, but the gc is requiring pex. So there you are looking over his shoulder asking if he likes the product that he's installing. What does he say? "No, it a new-fangled thingie that might catch on, but it's expensive and requires special tools etc etc. Copper has been used for years and there's no reason to change".
What do you do now? Do you trust your gc to do a good job? Or do you listen to someone who may not be seeing the big picture?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
No.... give me drawn plans and written specs, select your finishes, be available if I have questions, and stay out of the way. If you want to walk the job and talk to people do it at a specific time every week.
Rob....no and yes. It depends on your motives. It depends on the workers. It depends on your relationship with the builder.
We just finished roughing a house for a extremely friendly woman Margaret. The first time we saw her, she jumped out of her car lauging in delight that we were working on her house. She was taking pictures and bubbly and...well, generally having the time of her life. She disappeared in less than two minutes! As the building process moved along we all became quite friendly...but it was genuine. We're a friendly crew however.
Margaret was there on a regular basis, most often with the builder. She steered her house and guided us through many changes...some costly. But.....she was PAYING FOR THEM. It didn't come out of the builders, nor our pockets.
I've also worked for builders who don't allow, by contract, any homeowner onsite without the superintendent. This works too because it keeps the crews productive.
I've also worked for a homeowner (remodeling) who chatted so much it set her project behing by weeks...if not months!. Then she complained when the project lagged. I remember losing one guy for four hours when I sent him over there to pick up one tool!
If it's working...don't rock the boat.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
I feel nervous when the owner talks to the subs in some cases the owner tries to hire the sub, now that he has met him, for other work. I have had the experience in renovations when the owner tries to hire my carpenter and laborers for other work. My crew always tells them to speak to me.
General contractors have a valuable resource and that is their relationship with their subs, a private homeowner has a hard time finding a good honest plumber, furnace mechanic or painter. They see your relationship with your subs and try to ride on that.
And the point made previously about subs complaining about materials and methods is valid, subs and workers should be instructed to refer all concerns and questions to the general.
You will find a whole range of opinions, mostly slanted toward the “stay quiet and out of my way”. However, it depends on the homeowner, the contractor, and the sub, as well as the relationships between them.
Our experience was good. We hired a contractor who specifically told us that he welcomed, actually, required, our input. He told us to come on site all the time, and if we saw something that raised a question, or that we weren’t sure we liked, to ASK. If he wasn’t there, and he usually wasn’t, we were free to talk to his lead or the subs. However, before any changes were made, he was to be involved and notes were made and tracked to make sure of any implications to schedules / pricing.
Example: at the framing stage, we have a large pocket French door between the dinging room and the sunroom. We dropped by one afternoon, and nailed to the newly framed wall was a piece of cardboard, and on it was written:
Is this enough room for your china cabinet?
Similarly, the electrician wanted to go through the house with us and make sure we all agreed on where receptacles went; hvac guy was the same for vents, etc etc. This was all done without the contractor, because his relationship with the subs was established, and they all knew what was appropriate and what wasn’t.
This was standard operating procedure for this contractor, though. Some won’t make any changes once they’ve started. I figure if you aren’t allowed to talk to the subs, then I guess they aren’t working on your house, are they? But you have to be reasonable, and not interfere with the job at hand.
I am glad you had a good relationship with your general contractor that is the way it should be. But.... to let the subs go over details with you "because they all knew what was appropriate and what wasn't" is just asking for trouble. The general makes up the bid, knows the deal and the pricing, the sub has his price, to let others in on the planning and negotiations just leaves things open for problems. I would walk through with the owner and subs making sure everything was understood between us and not leave it to the subs and owner. Changes are fine, some cost some do not, sub input is great but final approval has to come from the general. I
Depends primarily with your rapport with the builder and expectations. If you want to be chatty, the GC and sub need to be cool with that, or you risk back dooring one and aggravating the other. That said, I prefer, as the sub, to have the homeowner very involved in the process. The last custom home I trimmed I told the HO flat out I wanted he and his wife both to make daily trips to the site. If I was there, we'd talk, if I wasn't, I had a board posted where we could leave each other notes / questions / etc. The GC is totally cool with this - - but there's an accolade. Most of what we discussed was what I'd call "trivial" details, not things which would cause a change order or me to change my price.
Example - wall caps. I, like anyone else, do them different ways. So I tell the HO this is what I think fits your house, but here's your other options. You can look at the pile of router bits and see if you like a profile you want on there. That kind of thing.
IF they say something which is change order fodder, I say that's fine, I'll tell the GC about the request, but you and he have to do your thing and agree on a cost first. Then I'll do it.
I guess I like (and thus far the customers have liked) that they are being a part of the process. It is usually trivialities, but it's often the details that matter. I like that they come out with a feeling that they played a role in how it all turned out, rather than a craps shoot. And it's good for reputation - building relationships. Since I do remodels, and trimming is the only new construction I get into, the new has generated remodels, bonus room and basement finishes . . . simply because we got to know each other. The relationship paid.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I sub frequently and talking to homeowners ain't no big deal. Just keep it to what I'm doing, don't ask me about the tile guy or the lectrican cause then I ain't sayin nuttin cause I'm guessing you are talking to them about me.
Buying pizzas....bringing in coffee and doughnuts or a cooler of sodas and homemade cookies will get you more mileage out of subs then anything you have ever seen.
Best idea I've heard yet! My wife is great at this. Thanks to all of you for the input. - Rob