Hi,
I’m a bit confused.
We currently have an oil boiler for hot water/baseboard heating. We use a coal stove all winter to save on using the oil to heat the house. Currently, we would like to add a new source for heating our water (shower, sinks, etc.). We don’t have natural gas anywhere near our neighborhood. But we could get propane delivered.
We have decided to get a tankless, but electric or gas? Doesn’t propane-gas go up in price similar to oil? Does electric really draw more power? I’m reading electric is more efficient, true?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Mark
West Chester, PA
Replies
It's unlikely that an electric tankless would keep you happy unless you are only one person living in the house, or possibly two. A client of mine has one--it uses (4) 60-amp breakers and will heat ~3 gallons per minute based on 50 degree incoming temp and 105 outgoing. It really isn't enough to run two fixtures. He has a gargantuan electrical panel and cheap kilowatt rates, and he doesn't have any gas appliances at this point, so it made some sense.
We have a gas tankless and it works great. Propane has not gone up nearly as much as gas/diesel, but it is still not a stable or predictable cost.
If you want a tankless, your choices are NG, propane, or electric. Sounds like you *might* be a candidate for propane. It's great for cooking. The upfront cost of a gas tankless will be significant, plus you would need to add a propane tank and the gas piping to the house. Can you get a comprehensive quote from a plumber?
Welcome to BT Mark.
coal stove all winter -- man, Renton WA used to be a big coal town, no more, can't even burn it legallly here most days in the winter unless it is your only source of heat.
As for electric tankless, just like David said. Would not bother with one myself even if it were free. Take a cheap 52 gal electric, put some 6" insulation around it and a couple of anti-siphon heat traps, minimal losses.
Only advantage IMO of tankless is if space is REALLY at a premium at your place.
Awesome responses, I'm glad my co-worker told me about this site. Yes in PA coal is cheap, well, cheaper than oil anyway. Our oil price just went up from $2.59g to $4.50g.We just got a few quotes, and 2 out of 3 mentioned that tankless electric would suck up alot of juice. We were really excited about tankless up to that point.The plumbers against the electric tankless recommend a 50g electric tank. We have some room, so thats do-able. It was cheaper to install also.I grew up with a tank, but got spoiled with the oil boiler because that is tankless in a sense.I mentioned the gas to my wife, especially converting the oven to gas, but she is still in the air about it.Thanks, I'll keep you posted, and will definitely contribute. I work as an exhibit designer and we have a full carpenters crew out back.Mark
Sounds like Bill and Junkhound gave you good advice.
Tankless is being oversold IMO. 'Efficient' they claim. As Bill pointed out, generally tank loss is minimal ... particularly if you use hot water regularly (like a family does).
There is a time an place for everything. And tankless is great for the right application ... just not the usual domestic hot water use patterns that many people have. When your power goes out, you will always have at least some hot water.
"I'm reading electric is more efficient, true?"
Efficency does not mean anything, by it'self
IIRC a typicalcar gas engine is about 30% efficient.
Would you be interested in one that is 100%, but uses $100 a gal fuel?
Yes, electric heat, of any kind, is typically near 100%. That is 100% of the energy that you pay for ends up heating the house or room, or water in this case.
But you need to check YOUR cost of fuels. Specially electric rates vary a lot. Call the utility and find the cost and find if they have any special plans. For example some place have off peak rates at less than 4 cents/kWh.
Electric tankless takes lots of instaneous power and produce limited amount of water in cold climates. They are much more affective in the south where the incoming water is still warm in the winter.
In many cases the you will need to upgrade the electrical service.
In general tankless WH do not save a huge amount of energy. What it saves is the standby losses and if the tank is in conditioned space that for 6-8 months of the year it helps heat the house. And Gas units have a little more loss in the pilot.
For people with large families that are always doing laundry or diswhasher the saving on a tankless or minimal.
Depending on your rates a electric tank type wh might work for you.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
There are electric water heaters that are very well insulated so that heat loss from the tank is not a lot. Where you live, whatever heat loss there is will simply reduce the cost of heating the house in winter.
Update,we had the water heater tank installed about 2 weeks ago and its been great. No lose of hot water and super quiet.Thanks for all the advice, it helped.Now, onto to insulating the home !!