I would like to install some 12 by granite tile inside my front door. I will tear out the oak parquet whish is about 3/8 ” . The ply wood subfloor is 23/32″ iirc.
The problem is that the entry door has a pretty low thresh height, about 1/2 or 5/8 above the parquet.
So I really don’t want to build up the flor alot. I was looking at the Tavy thin skin system at Lowes. It says it allows you to lay tile on almost any surface with out a major buildup in floor thickness . Any one have experience with this system?
Thanks.
Webby
Edited 12/20/2008 11:20 am ET by webby
Replies
It sounds like Kerdi's Ditra, which works very well in those situations.
Although I'd add another 3/8" or 1/2" ply to stiffen the floor more, then the Ditra.
But with the door clearance you have, if your going to have a door matt there, you're pretty much screwed whatever you do.
The reason I asked is that the ditra is about a 1/4 inch thick isn't it? This Tavy membrane looks like paper. Really thin.
You said you would add ply to the floor.
I forgot to give the dims. of the floor. THe house is a split level so we are only talking about a floor 43"x76" seems pretty stiff as it is. Joists are 2x10.
Webby
Edited 12/20/2008 12:24 pm ET by webby
Edited 12/20/2008 12:25 pm ET by webby
I'd be more concerned about the granite tile standing thicker than the parquet, or whatever material it will meet at the edges. Are you sure you need a membrane? What would happen if you laid the tile directly on the subfloor?
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Edited 12/20/2008 2:36 pm by Ted W.
Okay a little update in the info. The thresh of the entry door is 3/4" above the parquet which I beleive is 3/8". That is a little higher than i first estimated. Which is good.
Floor area is 43"x76". Entry door opens onto a landing, the house is a split level. There won't be any floor to floor transitions just the tile to the bullnose tread trim on the step down.
I was interested in the membrane system because I am trying to keep the buildup very minimal, normally I have used a 1/4 inch durock when the subfloor is in good shape.
Here are some admitedly poor photos from a phone, but I hope the give a sense of the space I am talking about.
I don't know what would happen with the tile directly on the ply, I have done a little tile work not a whole lot though.
Webby
Edited 12/20/2008 1:54 pm ET by webby
Epoxy.
Epoxy what?Webby
Epoxy based thinset and grout. It's a real bitch to work with but your tile will never come off the subfloor.
Yeah I was afraid that was what you were referring too. I have heard it is tough to work with.
What I was thinking was on my three quarter ply sub floor laying 5/16 durock and thinsetting away.Webby
Do you have access underneath? You could glue and screw 3/4 ply to the bottom of the subfloor.
I removed a subfloor from a bathroom and trimmed 1/2 " from the joists. The plywood was recessed between the joists on 2x4 sisters. Then 1/2" wonderboard glued and screwed down, radiant wires in thinset with tile on top. Ended up flush to the hardwood flooring in the hallway.
I do have acess but was hoping to aviod alot of work. Might just do what I was originally planning and put Bruce 5/16 engineered down.
Perhaps I am wrong but I was asuming that due to the small area 43"x 76", I would have suitable subfloor thickness and would not have to worry about deflection. I just didn't want to adhere the tile directly to the ply. I was concerned about floor buildup more than the thickness. AM I wrong? 1/4 inch hardie would bring me up to 1 inch substrate thickness. I could prbably deal with that.
Webby
Edited 12/20/2008 6:38 pm ET by webby
Edited 12/20/2008 6:39 pm ET by webby
1 1/8" is the old standard for subfloor/ underlay thickness.
Another way to strengthen from underneath is cross-blocking @ 16" o.c.. Just do it. Give yourself 1 hour to complete the job and move on.
How can a 1/16" thick membrane keep your subfloor from flexing? I won't be testing it. If it's still on the market in 10 years we can assume it probably works.
Yeah I just don't know if it is worth the trouble since the landing area was originally to get gunstock hardwood matching the rest of the house.
I just began to rethink the hardwood there.Webby
"1 1/8" is the old standard for subfloor/ underlay thickness."But one that is often miss used.TCA calls out several options.One is plywood subfloor, with a plywood underlayment, then the tile set with a modified thinset. IIRC 5/8" (19/32) is the minimum for each layer of plywood. And the underlayment is attached with screws into the subfloor and not the joist. And this is for joist on 16" centers.Another is a for CBU to be installed over a plywood subfloor. Without checking I think that 5/8" is sufficient on 16" centers, but I am sure that 3/4" is.The last is any propirtery system such as the Tavy or Ditra. Then you need to check on the manufactures specs as to what they require under it.Now all of these are based on having joist that are sized appropriately for the span and finish material..
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Ditra is pretty thin, maybe 1/16" to 1/8". Its been a while since I used it.
The reason I suggested the additional ply is that even just a little deflection will crack the tiles. Especially if you use a large tile on the floor.
Reading the topic of this thread, I immediately thought it was about a BT newbie who had stumbled into the Tavern and gotten his but handed to him. LOL...
Yeah I guess I should have mentioned tile. LOL.Webby
In response to your original question, I used the Tavy (SP?) system several years ago setting 12x12 tile over a plywood subfloor in a kitchen/dining area (about 28'x15')of an older home. I was concerned about height, reflective cracking at the plywood joints, seasonal movement of the sub-floor and proper bonding .
System was easy to apply using their adhesive and rolling the "fabric" into it, then setting tile with standard thinset mortar. As it was the first time using the system I had a few questions and my call was returned by the owner of the firm (who apparently was a tile pro) who called from Florida. I have seen the job several times since and no problems. I learned of the product through a flooring publication that I receive.
Hey thanks for thegood specific info. I appreciate it.Webby
my 2cents,and thats 2 much money for it..
in the small area that you have,you are only out 48" max from the foundation,i wouldn't worry about deflection. if you can get to the bottom and reinf. fine, but i wouldn't lose sleep over a 2x10 at 4' deflecting.
heres the problem i have. you have 3/8 flooring right now.if you pull it and put down hardi and tile you are 3/8 higher. that means you have to be watching your steps for proper height.it could mess with you . if i remember right 3/8 difference from the highest to the lowest is all you can have,and you have changed 1 3/8 higher and one 3/8 lower =3/4.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
Yep, that is what I am dealing with. That is why I was interested in the tavy stuff. I could try that but then if I had a problem I would have that stuff glued to the floor, hard to shoot a staple through that not to mention the expense.
So I guess, back to the original plan to staple down some 5/16 bruce gunstock to match the upper floor when I do it.
Dang. The granite caught my eye at Lowes. Nice looking stuff. It was polished though and I think in that small area honed finish would have been better anyway.
Thanks everyone for the good advice and opinnions I always get here.Webby
we have polished granite in our utility room and bath. i'm not sure it would be to good at a entry way. it's pretty slick and with the way your entry is a guy could take a slip and then have to bounce down some stairs. ouch!
what about a slate? no bigger area than you have i would probably just glue it to the plywood and if it went bad in 10 yrs,chisel it up and go again. also with slate if a tile broke it would be easy to match,because it's all different anyway.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Okay, that is a good idea, I will look at a slate.
Thanks.Webby
I like the slate idea for your application too...if the subfloor is really solid. Slate is stratified sediment so it's only as good as the base it rests on.
On the plus side, slate is relatively cheap yet natural looking. Its color can be enhanced with one the "wet look" sealers.
Slate tends to vary in thickness and dimension so it's wise to buy about 50% more than you need, then return the left overs. That way you can get a color scheme that suits your eye as well as a decent fit.
You'll definitely need a wet saw for all cuts. Nothing fancy but a strong enough motor to keep going.