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Discussion Forum

Tell me about AZEK

oops | Posted in Construction Techniques on May 9, 2009 04:12am

I have never used this product so the only thing I know about it is what I have read.

PERGOLA. I see that they don’t make anything thicker the 5/4 (1″actual) Would it be possible to laminate 1,2,or 3 pieces to get larger sizes. Any idea the distance it will/could span. (dead load only)  I thought about letting- in and sandwiching a piece of steel plate (as required) to add strength.

CABINETS. Outdoors, under roof, exposed to humidly only. 

 What do you think? Any idea on either or both of the above. Thanks

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Replies

  1. User avater
    Gene_Davis | May 09, 2009 04:23am | #1

    It's extruded cellular plastic.

    There are those that disclaim vinyl siding, another extruded plastic product, and then proclaim the wonders of Azek.

    Go figure.

     

    View Image

    "A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."

    Gene Davis        1920-1985

    1. User avater
      IMERC | May 09, 2009 04:38am | #3

      apples and oranges...

      RTFMs...... 

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

      WOW!!! What a Ride!

      Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

       

      "Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"

    2. oops | May 09, 2009 05:25am | #7

      Not all it's cracked up to be eh.

      I was just trying to beat old mother nature.

      Edited 5/8/2009 10:32 pm ET by oops

  2. User avater
    PaulBinCT | May 09, 2009 04:33am | #2

    Well, you're not gonna get any appreciable structural strength from it, so as opposed to spending a ton of money and time laminating a beam together, I'd think in terms of wrapping a true structural member. 

    As far as cabinets go, my experience is that it's too soft to be practical in terms of holding hinges and other cabinet hardware. 

    PaulB

    http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com

    http://www.finecontracting.com

    1. oops | May 09, 2009 05:42am | #8

      And to Tew W. (I haven't figured out how the send reply to more than one or all)

      I have tried wrapping structural member ( with redwood not Azek) with poor results. You can't depend on the owner to keep it sealed and painted. Cased out a LVL and discovered the damage just in time.

  3. Shep | May 09, 2009 05:11am | #4

    IMO, Azek should only be used as a finish/trim material. It doesn't have the qualities for any application that requires structural strength.

    And I'm really not sure how well it holds screws, either.

    It does mill and glue well, especially if you use the Azek glue. The glue basically bonds the 2 pieces into 1.

    1. User avater
      FatRoman | May 10, 2009 01:50pm | #12

      And I'm really not sure how well it holds screws, either.

      I had the impression, at least for exterior trim, that the best way to deal with the temperature induced expansion/contraction of Azek was to use screws. Say SS trim heads.

      And if that's wrong, I sure would like to hear about it before I go down that road.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

      View Image

      1. egdc | May 10, 2009 02:44pm | #13

        I would guess he meant screwing something to the azek, or azek to azek.Screwing through the azek and into a wood substrate is fine.Personally I don't care for the stuff.

        1. User avater
          FatRoman | May 10, 2009 04:57pm | #15

          What don't you like about it? Too fake? Doesn't play well with others?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

          View Image

      2. User avater
        Sphere | May 10, 2009 03:04pm | #14

        Azek to wood, no problem.

        Azek to azek, such as a corner, you must use a smaller pilot and don't even think of one half turn too many or it strips out. Same for a countersink, the CS needs to be deadon, the screw won't self bury before stripping out, even trim heads. BTDT.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

        "If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt

        View Image

        1. User avater
          FatRoman | May 10, 2009 05:01pm | #16

          Thanks. I'll keep that in mind if I decide to use that to retrim.But if it's that finicky, maybe I'll go with wood and get friendly with Mr. Paintbrush.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

          View Image

          1. User avater
            Sphere | May 10, 2009 06:10pm | #17

            Don't get me wrong, its great stuff. Just screwing it to itself is finniky. Attaching to wood, is just like Cedar or Redwood. But lasts a zillion years longer.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

            "If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt

            View Image

        2. AitchKay | May 11, 2009 12:29am | #20

          Interesting -- I just glued and screwed some columns together on Friday, no problem.I used GRK RT (reverse thread) trimheads, and two-part Devcon Trimbonder (similar to Bond-and-Fill) to glue them.No predrilling, and they countersunk just fine. I've taken to putting blue tape either side of the joint to minimize cleanup labor, but if you let it set up just the right amount, the epoxy scrapes off like a slightly-hardened bead of caulk.AitchKay

          1. User avater
            Sphere | May 11, 2009 01:24am | #21

            I was using Torx drive SS trim screws ( Lowes) and I didn't have a "problem" per se, its just that for a first time user ( I assume that from Steve's query) its best to be forearmed with a back up plan, in case he'd run into any issues.

            With finesse and my impact driver, I could and did get it ironed out, but if the joint isn't closed ( by clamps or plenty of hand pressure) I'd not rely on the screws to pull it tight.

            Just sayin.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

            "If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt

            View Image

          2. AitchKay | May 11, 2009 04:37am | #23

            Hadn’t thought of it until your post, but I realize that the RT threads must add a clamping component to the operation.We had glued up U-shaped post wraps indoors a couple of months ago, using Gorilla PVC glue. We installed the Us, and fitted the 4th sides, but we just tacked those 4th sides in place, leaving the heads proud, since the gal at Gorilla PVC was adamant that we wait until nighttime lows were above 45º F for a full 72 hours. The customers were getting antsy, wanting everything finished, but our weather reports called for 36ºF Saturday night, and 38ºF Sunday night, up here in Michigan. So we switched to the two-part Trimbonder just to get the job done this last Friday.So we’re backing out a couple dozen trimheads, preparatory to glue-up. Most of them came out fine, but when the board was relatively loose, down to the last screw or so, we had to make sure that we clamped the joint tight with our hands, because when removing an RT screw, if you let the face-screwed board float out, instead of clamping it tight, the left-handed RT threads countersink the head completely while you’re taking apart the joint. By clamping the boards together, you ensure that the primary screw threads overpower the RTs, pushing the screw back out of the face board. That means the RT screws must be applying an opposite, clamping effect when you’re driving them: those left-hand threads that push down the surface to avoid cratering also push down the whole board as well. We had just the right amount of squeeze-out as the boards pulled tight. But maybe if we’d used plain trimheads, without the RT, we’d have had problems.AtchKay

        3. Pelipeth | May 11, 2009 02:48am | #22

          This week in my lumber yard I saw for the 1st time an AZEK kit with screws AND plugs. Their engineered screws self thread and make the countersink hole in one shot. Just plug with the supplied plugs and it's a done deal. Did NOT see a finished product, but in theory seemed great. Hole size approx. 3/16th.

          Edited 5/10/2009 7:50 pm ET by Pelipeth

      3. Shep | May 10, 2009 11:16pm | #18

        What Duane said.

        I don't screw the corners, tho. I glue them, using either blue painters tape, or Collins clamps to hold things together until the glue sets.

        But once the glue is cured, those joints aren't coming apart.

        I really like the stuff. But you have to be aware that it does move a lot with temp changes.

        1. User avater
          FatRoman | May 10, 2009 11:45pm | #19

          You ever try pocket screwing?The Azek, I mean. Wondering if that would work for the corner joints.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

          View Image

          1. Shep | May 11, 2009 04:53am | #24

            It'd probably work, although I'd be real careful about driving the screws too deep, and stripping them out on the soft azek.

  4. User avater
    Ted W. | May 09, 2009 05:15am | #5

    PERGOLA - You could build the framing with lumber or steel, then box the members in with azek. Just make sure there is no way possible for water to get in, ever, but treat the steel and/or wood as if they will get soaked. Douple protection if you will.

    CABINETS - I imagine if hinges and door pulls are through-bolted they should hold up fine. As the other poster noted, azek is too soft to hold screws, but I think magnetic hasps or such shold hold just fine. But hinges and door pulls should be bolted all the way through.

    Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

    ~ Ted W ~

    Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
    Meet me at House & Builder!

  5. paulbny | May 09, 2009 05:23am | #6

    I have used it to build a cabinet that is being used on a dock.  Basically 5/4 x 6 stock and AZEK 1/2" beadboard 4x8 sheet stock.  Frame and panel construction but I glued everything, no "floating" panels.  Used stainless hardware and screws.  It's been out there for 18 months now with no call backs.  Customer painted it, I'm not sure with what, but it still looks good.

    1. oops | May 09, 2009 05:45am | #9

      Since the cabinets will not be directly expose to the weather, do you suppose that I could get by with just good well built standard cabinets?

      1. paulbny | May 09, 2009 05:06pm | #10

        The cabinet I built sits on a dock at a lake in Canada 365 days a year, and was built accordingly.  For a less extreme location I would probably use either cyprus or PT and make my panels out of MDO plywood.  In that case I would float the panels and I'd finish the h#ll out of it.  For any kind of outdoor wooden furniture, moisture is your enemy. 

  6. amillionquestions | May 10, 2009 07:21am | #11

    Actually there is a thicker Azek product called "Azek to mill", ATM, it does come in a full 1 1/4" thick. If you check out some of the pergola manufacturers online you will find their const. techniques and may be able to replicate for your own construction. I saw one being installed last year and I believe that all of the main elements were laminated material with no aluminum or steel inserted. Everything depends on spans of course so it will pay to do your homework. Call Azek and ask for a suitable course of action.

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