Replies

1. 
   ponytl | Oct 10, 2007 06:13am | #1

   around here i've only see them check if it was in a door  or next to a door or (and this is a maybe) was less than 20" off a finished floor  but again check codes... it's not something they really look for here but you might run into an inspector who likes to look for it...

   p

2. 
   james | Oct 10, 2007 06:13am | #2

   I can't quote #'s but I believe that the height from floors makes tempered necessary, also all door and sidelight glass must be tempered as well as windows within shower/bath areas.

    

   james

3. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 10, 2007 06:15am | #3

   You need a code book if you are building a house to code. Proximity to floor, stairs, doors, shower or tub, etc... can all require tempered glass.

1. 
   circuit | Oct 10, 2007 06:20am | #4

   have book, problem is finding things in it. what heading would this be under?

    

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 10, 2007 06:46am | #8

   [B] R308.4Hazardous locations. The following shall be con-

   sidered specific hazardous locations for the purposes of glaz-

   ing:

   1. Glazing in swinging doors except jalousies.

   2. Glazing in fixed and sliding panels of sliding door as-

   semblies and panels in sliding and bifold closet door as-

   semblies.

   3. Glazing in storm doors.

   4. Glazing in all unframed swinging doors.

   5. Glazing in doors and enclosures for hot tubs,whirlpools,

   saunas, steam rooms, bathtubs and showers. Glazing in

   any part of a buildingwall enclosing these compartments

   where the bottomexposed edge of the glazing is less than

   60 inches (1524 mm) measured vertically above any

   standing or walking surface.

   6. Glazing, in an individual fixed or operable panel adja-

   cent to a door where the nearest vertical edge is within a

   24-inch (610mm)arc of the door in a closed position and

   whose bottom edge is less than 60 inches (1524 mm)

   above the floor or walking surface.

   7. Glazing in an individual fixed or operable panel, other

   than those locations described in Items 5 and 6 above,

   that meets all of the following conditions:

   7.1. Exposed area of an individual pane greater than

   9 square feet (0.836 m2).

   7.2. Bottom edge less than 18 inches (457 mm)

   above the floor.

   7.3. Top edge greater than 36 inches (914 mm)

   above the floor.

   7.4. One or more walking surfaces within 36 inches

   (914 mm) horizontally of the glazing.

   8. All glazing in railings regardless of an area or height

   above awalking surface. Included are structural baluster

   panels and nonstructural in-fill panels.

   9. Glazing in walls and fences enclosing indoor and out-

   door swimming pools, hot tubs and spas where the bot-

   tomedge of the glazing is less than 60 inches (1524 mm)

   above awalking surface andwithin 60 inches (1524mm)

   horizontally of the water.s edge. This shall apply to

   single glazing and all panes in multiple glazing.

   10. Glazing adjacent to stairways, landings and ramps with-

   in 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally of a walking surface

   when the exposed surface of the glass is less than 60

   inches (1524 mm) above the plane of the adjacent walk-

   ing surface.

   11. Glazing adjacent to stairways within 60 inches (1524

   mm) horizontally of the bottomtread of a stairway in any

   direction when the exposed surface of the glass is less

   than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the nose of the tread.

   Exception: The following products, materials and uses are

   exempt from the above hazardous locations:

   1. Openings in doors through which a 3-inch (76 mm)

   sphere is unable to pass.

   2. Decorative glass in Items 1, 6 or 7.

   3. Glazing in Section R308.4, Item 6, when there is an

   intervening wall or other permanent barrier between

   the door and the glazing.

   4. Glazing in Section R308.4, Item 6, in walls perpen-

   dicular to the plane of the door in a closed position or

   where access through the door is to a closet or storage

   area 3 feet (914 mm) or less in depth.Glazing in these

   applications shall comply with Section R308.4,

   Item 7.

   5. Glazing in Section R308.4, Items 7 and 10, when a

   protective bar is installed on the accessible side(s) of

   the glazing 36 inches2 inches (914mm51 mm)

   above the floor.The bar shall be capable ofwithstand-

   ing a horizontal load of 50 pounds per linear foot (74.5

   kg/m)without contacting the glass and be aminimum

   of 11/2 inches (38 mm) in height.

   6. Outboard panes in insulating glass units and other

   multiple glazed panels in Section R308.4, Item 7,

   when the bottom edge of the glass is 25 feet (7620

   mm) or more above grade, a roof, walking surface, or

   other horizontal [within 45 degrees (0.79 rad) of hori-

   zontal] surface adjacent to the glass exterior.

   7. Louvered windows and jalousies complying with the

   requirements of Section R308.2.

   8. Mirrors and other glass panels mounted or hung on a

   surface that provides a continuous backing support.

   9. Safety glazing in Section R308.4, Items 10 and 11 is

   not required where:

   9.1. The side of a stairway, landing or ramp has a

   guardrail or handrail, including balusters or

   in-fill panels, complying with the provisions

   of Sections 1003.3.12 and 1607.7 of the Inter-

   national Building Code; and

   9.2. The plane of the glass is greater than 18 inches

   (457 mm) from the railing.

1. 
   Heck | Oct 10, 2007 06:50am | #10

   give him a fish...                        

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 10, 2007 07:37am | #11

   That's hardly a fish. Having to read and understand the whole thing constitutes fishing, doesn't it?

2. 
   Heck | Oct 10, 2007 07:39am | #12

   yeah, I was gonna do what you did, only I got lazy.

   :->)                        

3. 
   streets | Oct 10, 2007 06:05pm | #13

   If you are unfamiliar with the code book you should use the INDEX although it isn't as good as it should be.GLAZING is listed as being in Section R308. It is a good idea to read all of chapter 3 carefully because a lot of unrelated but important design issues are located there.

2. 
   Matt | Oct 11, 2007 05:41am | #22

   I'm working on some plans right now and the 18" above the floor thing came up just yesterday.  I pulled out the code and read it, although we are still on IRC2000, plus it's a modified version.  Ours is a little different: http://ecodes.iccsafe.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Residential/part00382/chapter00383/section%20head00426/section00432.htm?fn=main-nf.htm$f=templates$3.0

   But reading form yours:

   >>>

   7. Glazing in an individual fixed or operable panel, other than those locations described in Items 5 and 6 above, that meets all of the following conditions:

        7.1. Exposed area of an individual pane greater than 9 square feet (0.836 m2).

       7.2. Bottom edge less than 18 inches (457 mm) above the floor.

       7.3. Top edge greater than 36 inches (914 mm) above the floor.

       7.4. One or more walking surfaces within 36 inches(914 mm) horizontally of the glazing.  

   <<<

   First note that it says all the conditions must be met.   Secondly the term "Walking surfaces" is up for interpretation.  Here some inspectors/jurisdictions interpret walking surface to mean a hallway, stairs, etc.  In other places they take it to mean any floor in the house.

   Bottom line is that the OP needs to get with his local code enforcement official to see how the local jurisdiction interprets/enforces whatever code is in place.

3. 
   STAINLESS | Oct 19, 2007 01:31pm | #28

   davidmeiland,

   for the effort you expended in your response to circuit you definitely deserve a nod of approval. How about an ATTA-BOY!!!?

   You are encouraged to reply to each & every one of my future posts, whenever you wish to!

   Sincerely,

   STAINLESS

2. 
   james | Oct 10, 2007 06:47am | #9

   forgot about stairs and landings..

    

   james

4. 
   hvtrimguy | Oct 10, 2007 06:23am | #5

   windows in showers need tempered, windows a certain distance off floor ( i believe it is 20" - not sure), and windows in a stair well or landing should be tempered. that's all the things I know of and have been told over the years. call the building inspector and ask.

   "it aint the work I mind,
   It's the feeling of falling further behind."

   Bozini Latini

   http://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com

5. 
   Heck | Oct 10, 2007 06:24am | #6

   2003 IRC section R308  page 46

                           

1. 
   G80104 | Oct 11, 2007 04:49am | #17

   They (DBD) make us temper any glass with in 5' of a stair, that in less then 60" AFF. Any window 2nd floor or higher that is under 20" AFF needs fall protection if the window opens.

1. 
   Heck | Oct 11, 2007 04:52am | #18

   Stringent.

   What does the fall protection consist of?                        

1. 
   G80104 | Oct 11, 2007 05:00am | #19

   Rail or guard rail, anything to keep the little kids from falling out. This past summer I recall 3-4 news reports of kids falling through open windows with screens on them.

     The building inspectors call it the Eric Clapton rule, one of his kids fell out a window in NYC if I remember, resulting in death.

     Been a few jobs I have worked on where the people drawing the plans have no clue & we end up changing the windows.

1. 
   Heck | Oct 11, 2007 05:14am | #20

   Didn't know that about Clapton, that would be rough.

   So the rails are mounted on the outside, into the framing? What about water penetration where it mounts to the wall ? A single rail, or a grid?

   I'm just full of questions, tonight, aren't I? :-)                        

2. 
   G80104 | Oct 11, 2007 05:30am | #21

   Just like a deck rail 4"oc.

   Most of the rails are an after thought, because they did not plan for them. Rubber washers, caulk, what ever it takes, I always like the call to the architiect telling them that they over looked something.

6. 
   caseyr | Oct 10, 2007 06:42am | #7

   This web page is for a specific county, but I think it may be, or at least close to, general code specifications:

   http://www.garrettcounty.org/PlanningLand/PermitsInspect/pdf/egress.pdf

7. 
   Piffin | Oct 11, 2007 02:01am | #14

   My understand is that glass less than 18" AFF needs to be tempered

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   jayzog | Oct 11, 2007 03:54am | #15

   If you got to do a retrofit to pass an inspection, IE.. you forgot to order tempered for the window in the stairwell, you can reglaze with laminated glass ( glass with plastic inbetween, like a windshield) at a fraction of the price of tempered, and most glass shops can do that in house.

   I have, following an inspectors suggestion, put a laminated glass energy panel at the inside of a double hung sash to meet safty glass requirements. Sure beats reordering the sash from the manufacturer.

1. 
   oberon476 | Oct 11, 2007 04:20am | #16

   Curious where you can find laminated glass at less cost then tempered?

   Typically laminated is several times the cost of tempered.

    

1. 
   jayzog | Oct 11, 2007 01:55pm | #24

   Local glass shop. They stock and cut lami glass in house, tempered has to be ordered in.

   Apparently the equipment to temper glass is very expensive.

1. 
   oberon476 | Oct 19, 2007 01:16pm | #26

   About a million dollars or so to set up a fair sized tempering line.  Typically more than most local glass shops can afford.

    

    

2. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 11, 2007 04:59pm | #25

   Depends on the size and shape in my glass shop. When I needed some small glass  pieces that were't exactly square for shelving in a shower area , laminated was WAY cheaper than tempered. Seems the tempered guys don't want to screw around with something that's not square. I guess it's a machinery issue.

   Still, a window ought to be square, so tempered should be cheap enough.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   oberon476 | Oct 19, 2007 01:20pm | #27

   That does make sense. 

   The tempering guys would have had to cut the glass by hand prior to tempering and that would have likely cut into production time so guess who gets to pay the difference...

8. 
   RedfordHenry | Oct 11, 2007 06:47am | #23

   Anything within 18" of floor needs to be tempered.  If the windows are double hung, then only the bottom sash needs to be tempered.