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This got a lot of attention a few months ago. The commission formed to investigate the incident/accident released their findings today:
http://www.tamu.edu/bonfire-commission/
For a condensed version, here is a link to an AP story:
http://www.wral-tv.com/news/national/BonfireInvestigation____=TOPAP.html
mr. greenjeans
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Replies
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There is a long thread on this subject here somwhere....
two million pounds of stupidity...Texans...and bucking broncos....Well I do loop ultralights...so I guess it's just different strokes for different folks..
near the stream,
aj
*I'm not going to bother opening the URL, but that won't stop me from commenting. My point is if you wait long enough anything and everything will come up again. Let the fireworks begin.
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you sound pissed, rich...
There is a lot of good info on the report -- engineering info, accurate descriptions of the construction techniques, etc. Not much bias in it as you would expect. Interesting reading as to how built, and the dynamics of how it fell. Not necessary the exact cause, but the *dynamics*.
mr. greenjeans
*Now Mr Greenjeans.What have I told you about getting people riled up ?
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hey, that's cool!.. i wonder where dirk is?
i couldn't display the report but i cud view the animations...seems to be saying the logs fromthe upper tiers worked their way down into the lower tiers and acted as giant wedges blowing the wire wraps .....
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oops, sorry Mike...I remember Dirk...certainly not me...I tried to keep my post non-opinionated, non-biased...i posted the links only as a FYI...but since you seem to be asking, AJ has it right...IMHO, egos seemed to overrule engineering and physics in the construction of this thing.
headed to the magic kingdom,
GJ
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What county Building Dep't. allows a structure weighing as much as 2 747's to be designed and built by a bunch of kids!??!!!
Some one should go to jail. Selected quotes from the report if you don't want to wade through the whole thing:
"The physical failure and causal factors were driven by an organizational failure. This failure, which had its roots in decisions and actions by both students and University officials over many years, created an environment in which a complex and dangerous structure was allowed to be built without adequate physical or engineering controls.
"This organizational failure is complex but includes such things as the absence of an appropriate written design or design process, a cultural bias impeding risk identification, and the lack of a proactive risk management approach.
"In the experience of the investigation team, Texas A&M is unique in allowing this level of irresponsible personal behavior in and around a construction project of this magnitude. Clearly, there is the potential for these behaviors to impact worker performance and thus perhaps structural integrity. This is why these behaviors are strictly prohibited at professionally managed construction sites."
"Student leaders were the sole design authority for the Bonfire structure. Yet they were not structural engineers and thus did not have the knowledge or skills necessary to identify and correct structural deficiencies of the type that caused the 1999 collapse."
*My newspaper reports that the last injured student is out of the hospital,but paralyzed.I wonder if,as the years go by,will this student feel that the bonfire was a worthwile experience?Every day when I go to work I risk a fall and a paralyzing injury.I am sure a great many of you run similar risks.You and I know the risks involved and we accept them as a means of supporting our families.I doubt very much that any of the dead or injured students really knew what they were risking.20 year olds never think that sort of thing can happen to them( after all,they are gonna live forever---they are indestructable)The University is not run by 20 year olds.I imagine universities are run by responsible , mature adults.I can't imagine why the school officials ever allowed this event in the first place. Thats where the real responsibility lies,with the school officials who should have made some adult decisions for kids who were not fully capable of making informed decisions.
*I keep asking myself where the civil engineering faculty was/has been all these years? Did they ever happen to notice the construction methods being used on their way to class? Did nobody see what was going on and recognize a dangerous situation?
*>"I keep asking myself where the civil engineering faculty was/has been all these years?"They're all out building HFH houses.: )
*Do you suppose they stood around the structure (before it fell) and said: "We've been doing it this way for years"
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This is not intended to offend anyone but having a bonfire where constructional integrety has to be considered is a no brainer. Tradition or not. One thing that did bother me about this tragedy, other than the obvious, is that this is a college, future leaders, etc. Talk about poor decision making.
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buddy I think you are right on
Where was the code enforcement officer on this one
poor kids who won,I get to risk theirs for their family. let the faculty,IIass swing for this one.
*buddy I think you are right on Where was the code enforcement officer on this one poor kids who won,I get to risk theirs for their family.let the faculty,I ass swing for this one.
*Thomas,Please make up your mind. Is it going to be IIass, or I ass ???Enquiring minds are turning to mush.
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From a colleague on the Construction Management faculty there I heard that they used to have a course in construction that was required for anyone working on the bonfire. The faculty member who taught the course was unable to police the site, and the students were not very interested in learning all the things they were not supposed to do. A year or two ago the course was dropped by administrators. Other rules were allowed to slip as well.
One real difficulty was for the engineering faculty members who saw the danger. An engineer who sees the danger and fails to take appropriate measures to make it safe can be held to be professionally liable. After several futile tries over the years to go head to head with administrators, they wouldn't go near the site.
That's a lot of trees for a southern state like Texas. One complaint was that the trees were not straight enough, and they would not nest tightly enough, and upper timbers would wedge into the gaps below. Great, so let's save all the straight trees in Texas for the bonfire and use the others for lumber.
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Bonfires aren't engineering projects....Stupidity is building multitiered vertical stacks of logs that are fifty feet long...
near the stream, and standing far from the edge...
aj
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With all due respect to the injured, dead, and their families, I do have to wonder how anybody could have continued an idiotic tradition as this. This is a shameful waste of hundreds of trees, particularly in a state which scarcely has any, it must create a huge amount of air pollution, and, as we now have seen, is very dangerous. It seems like it was an accident waiting to happen. We ought to be promoting something other than teaching our kids to waste trees by the thousands....
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I won't comment about the usefulness of the tradition, but I too wondered about the waste of trees. So I asked a recent A&M graduate about this bonfire tradition. He said the trees come from wooded lots that are going to be cleared for development. The other half of this tradition that is not widely known, is that in the spring the students go out and plant far more trees than were cut down for the bonfire. Also, while large parts of a very large state have very few trees apparently around the College Station area, there are extensive forested areas. He is a co-worker and I have no reason to think he was blowin' smoke about this.
*So Gordo, another rationalization for "we've always done it this way"?
*LukaIt shouldread the faculty's ass should swing for this blunder.tthanor the question
*As for the comment about the waste of trees, in a state that doesn't seem to have many trees...Are ya nuts, or ignorant (meaning not knowing; uneducated about the issue)?Texas has more trees than almost (I did say ALMOST) any other state in the union. MOST of the major timber companies are alive and kicking because of the large number of trees in Texas. We have some of the largest timber companies in the world here, and a very latge portion of Texas is dense forest.We also have mountains, deserts, swamps, beach fronts, and rock quarries. Very diversified state.I sure hope we don't get back into the squabble about the bonfire issue again. Bad tragedy any way you look at it.I saw on the news tonight that a walkway near the raceway in North Carolina collapsed. It was concrete, went over a four lane highway, and dropped a lot of people right into the lanes of traffic. Seriously hurt a lot of people. It was only five years old. Where were the engineers and inspectors on that little project? Seems we can find a little stupidity and arrogance in just about any state, on any project if we looked hard enough.Just something to think about...James DuHamel
*LOLYou are twelcoor: )
*Not at all. However traditions by definition tend to fall into that category, ("we've always done it this way"). Personally I'm not much on traditions. Most of the time people have forgotten why they were doing a "tradition" anyway. Hoot mon, look at what Christmas has become. That is not to say that some of these exercises (traditions) are totally worthless. Getting together on say Thanksgiving Day is traditional in the U.S. It is one tradition that do I engage in and enjoy. (Sleeping in on weekends is another ;-) Being with good friends and family and reflecting on my good fortune is good for the soul, though it usually plays hell with the waist. The folks at Texas A&M have their own reasons for the bonfire tradition. It is too bad that the dangers of what they were doing was not clearly appreciated by all involved.
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Well, maybe they should offer a course in log home construction. Have one of them check out Le Chateau Montebello. It is the largest log structure in the world and was built with a crew of about 300 men at the peak of work with the bulk of the structure done in about 3 months. I'm sorry for the families' losses, but damn, some of them might have seen this one coming. This is what swimming in the shallow end of the "gene pool" will get you.
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This got a lot of attention a few months ago. The commission formed to investigate the incident/accident released their findings today:
http://www.tamu.edu/bonfire-commission/
For a condensed version, here is a link to an AP story:
http://www.wral-tv.com/news/national/BonfireInvestigation____=TOPAP.html
mr. greenjeans