I’m planning to replace the existing T&G vertical- grain 1×4 fir decking on my 8’x16′ porch. This existing decking has been down about 15 to 20 years. I would like to use Ipe wood this time and would like to use a clear finish. The Ipe wood that I found is not T&G. Instead it is designed for a small gap to be left between boards. Does anyone see a problem in my taking the Ipe wood , running it across my router table and turning it into Tand G. I would kirf the back a few times and predrill the tongue at a 45 degree angle to fasten the Ipe down to the existing PT joists with SS trim head screws; Sand the top then stain and oil it. The porch faces east and is under a roof. I’ wouldn’t think that expansion and contraction would be a problem since it is not a problem now with 15 year old painted fir.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Listeners write in about fire-rated doors, using seven minisplits for cooling, and how to build a second-story addition.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
- Home Group
- Antique Trader
- Arts & Crafts Homes
- Bank Note Reporter
- Cabin Life
- Cuisine at Home
- Fine Gardening
- Fine Woodworking
- Green Building Advisor
- Garden Gate
- Horticulture
- Keep Craft Alive
- Log Home Living
- Military Trader/Vehicles
- Numismatic News
- Numismaster
- Old Cars Weekly
- Old House Journal
- Period Homes
- Popular Woodworking
- Script
- ShopNotes
- Sports Collectors Digest
- Threads
- Timber Home Living
- Traditional Building
- Woodsmith
- World Coin News
- Writer's Digest
Replies
We have used IPE and other hardwoods T&G for porch flooring, particulary in screened in porches, but I wouldn't see a problem with you using it exposed as it is a fairly stable wood.
I would look harder for a supplier who can either obtain T&G or mill it themselves. I would think doing by hand would be a royal pain. Call local millwork shops, if they can't provide it themselves, they can probably do the milling for you albeit for a price.
Edited 10/10/2007 8:41 pm ET by CAGIV
whatever the price is - it would be worth it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'd try to find it before trying to t&G it yourself. I think it would wreak havoc on the router bits. I know it does a number on the miter saw blades.
These guys all have the T & G:
http://www.advantagelumber.com/decking2.htm
http://www.homesteadhardwoods.com/decklumber.html
http://www.ipedeckingsource.com/
http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/species/ipe_jatoba.html
Man, if you really want to torture yourself bigtime, just try to run T&G on ipe on your router table. Heck, even Dick Cheny would classify that as "extreme". One board ought to be enought to convince you that you were crazy for even thinking about it. The stuff weighs a ton, is hard as iron and eats bits/blades for breakfast. Furthermore, the dust is BRUTAL! It'll make you sick as a dog. I hate to even chop it to length on the miter saw! I'd be shocked if you could get the T&G joints off a router table straight and matched enough to use and look good, let alone survive the experience! ;-)
As others have said, if you want T&G, find it pre-made and pay whatever it costs. Otherwise, go to plan B and space it. Oh, and I just had another thought. My yard carries it with pre-cut grooves on both edges for use with a particular type of fasteners whose name escapes me. You could just get that and use slip tongues. The edges are eased, though, and that may not be the look you're going for.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
hey Vince, try East Teak, out of Sultan, Wa.
http://www.eastteak.com/ I've heard some good reports about the quality of their ipe, and they do carry it in a T&G.http://www.woodsshop.com
Is T&G ipe a good choice for a covered porch with Advantech subflooring?
If so, what should I put down between the Adventech and ipe?
3' overhang all the way around, so very little moisture.
If it's an exterior porch why put down a sub-floor?
In my opinion it's a waste of material, time, and a potential problem down the road when moisture does get in between them?
What's under the porch?
We simply install the Ipe, or lately Cumerau, directly to the joists with either T&G or hidden fastener.
The sub floor is already there - contractor installed it assuming I would go with light weight concrete floors.
My wife prefers the look of the ipe, and assuming I install it myself, the ipe is about half the price.
can you pull the sub-floor?
Personally I would be real hesitant to install a wood floor over a sub-floor outside.
If I pull the sublfoor, then the joists are running the wrong way. They glued and screwed the subfloor, so it would be a real pain to remove.
One wild thought is to use ice and water shield between the subfloor and floor. If it will protect the sheathing on a roof, why wouldn't it work to protect the subfloor on the porch?
maybe some epdm instead of the IWC. Build it like a deck on a flat roof.
"No" to laying the ipe on the subfloor or I&W Shield. What you get, in either case, is water under the floorboards that NEVER dries. Even ipe will be toast, er, milktoast, in no time flat. Under the circumstances in which you find yourself, depending on what the subfloor is, you may want to consider the I&W, then sleepers (maybe make 'em out of Azek) and then the ipe. Leave the cavities open on the ends to vent.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Sounds like a good idea. I've been considering sleepers of some sort, maybe running the Azek at an angle so there is at least some slope for drainage?
Or drill a bunch of drainage holes in the subfloor.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
That doesn't work either
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll take your word for it. I would never try it myself, I was just thinkin' out loud. Dangerous practice.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
You're going to be a lot better off removing the sub-floor, it might be a PITA now, but it's going to be a bigger PITA down the road when it rots and you need to take up your porch floor, on the up-side at that point the sub-floor will pretty much be toast
Azek?
how did that creep into the discussion? It is not a decking material
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Azek has come out with a deck material. I have seem some literature, but not any samples.
Might be something like Tendura
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
would you like me to post pictures where somebody used I&W under a deck in direct contact like that?It is only 5-6 years old, rotten bad, and I get to replace it this year, as soon as I can get to it.Short of taking up the subfloor materials ( and hoping you have PT lumber under there) you would need to go with that cement surfacing, or do an EPDM roof material, then sleeps to elevate the deck and provide drainage
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The Vycor Ice and Watershield says not to use in an inhabited space, as it off gases asphalt odors. A porch is open, but still.Besides, as everyone is pointing out, subfloor is a bad idea for an outside porch.
This is just another case of poor prior planning on my part. However, a subfloor on top of non-treated 2x12's is what I have to work with.
Two porches, one is completely open underneath with 7 to 9 foot steel supports - more like a balcony than a porch. The other is enclosed but well ventilated, with 5 to 8 foot headroom. That one is going to be the wife's garden shed. Total area of the two porches is around 600 sq. ft.
Instead of the Vycor product, I would be using Polyguard 650 - the same product I used for my house wrap http://www.polyguardproducts.com/products/architectural/650waterproofing.htm
Right now, the choices I see are IPE on sleepers over the polyguard, Tendura or closely spaced Trex over the polyguard, or the light weight concrete over EPDM? The concrete is the most expensive choice of the three.
I will be adding another 600 sq. ft. of deck so that there is access to the porches from the outside. So, it would be nice if the deck surfaces and the porch surfaces were at least similar.
If you are going to have a garden shed and can't remove the subfloor, I'd go for the concrete. I have no idea what all you need to do, but with the amount of water in a garden shed, anything else over that sub-floor is going to be a disaster waiting to happen.In fact, I'm not even certain that concrete won't be a problem. Maybe a longer time frame though. And a floor drain might help.Are you positive you can't rip out the sub-floor, block the joists, and do Ipe (or Tendura or whatever)?
The garden shed is for dry storage - garden tools, fertilzer, etc... So no moisture involved in that part of it. The floor of the "garden shed" stays very dry even after a lot of rain.
The subfloor is glued and screwed - it would be a major pain to rip out. The wife has decided that ipe is the right answer for the front porch (which is the one covering the garden shed) and that tendura is the right answer for the back balcony.
My favorite choice for the ipe is to go with the polyguard, vinyl sleepers, and ipe. I would make provisions to allow air flow on the three open edges. I'm strongly considering prefinishing the ipe on all edges before installing it.
All porches get wet, the goal is to just make sure it dries out in a reasonable amount of time. By cutting down on how much water can get under the ipe, I should need less airspace for drying.
The porch that will get the ipe does have a decent slope, about 1/4" per foot. No water stands on it anywhere.
Ipe only needs a finish if you want to keep the color. We used Penofin, because it got a lot of direct sunlight. In your case, you might not even need to do that.Soil, plants, etc, have a lot of moisture. But going with something that allows air circulation is about the best I can think of. Be sure your sleepers are not continuous - that is they should allow circulation also.
I have 3/4" Ipe t&g on my screen porch and it is awesome. It's worth every penny to buy it milled and to use stainless cleats on the install.
For an exterior location, even roofed over porches, you should never use a subfloor. The decking needs to be able to dry to both sides. Using subfloor WILL trap water and cause rot in only a few years.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Amen brutha..amen.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I think I'd rather eat my router table than use it to run a couple hundred bf of ipe T&G. Just the thought of it makes me go all green.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
" A bench" 10' RAD. 28' O. A."
Are we on the same page?
Seating would propose a stab-U- Dad when ya swing the arc/tang but not unless ya tried to pirce ya self looking for a claim.
I just did a scale at 1/12 per ft, I don't think a 1x6 IPe will work, the ccoe wont . Well, it will, but not stay taht way
I can't say tha word, but...but,,but thare is something better.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
" A bench" 10' RAD. 28' O. A."
Are we on the same page?
Seating would propose a . . . etc."
Was the above to me? If so, I want some of whatever it is you're smokin'! ;-)
(It's been a LONG week!)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I really don't know anymore wtf I was quoteing, but a 10' rad and 28' OA seems to me to be a sliver of wood somewhere that would get real skinny on the arc..hence the "stab me Dad" of which I called the old 70's shirt collars that went so well with liesure suits.
I tend to forget that some folks don't see the same mental images or create pun-ney sayings for the absurd, as I do.
When I say them out loud, it may baffle or befuddle the masses.
Sorry about that, you'll catch up eventually. (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
"Sorry about that, you'll catch up eventually. (G)"
Well, in that regard, you're WAY more optimistic than I am. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I take that you are in Seattle WA.
What is wrong with using fir or red wood. I thought that was the wood of choice in that area. We pay big bucks for that stuff on the East coast.