Ok, yesterday I was killing time on the boob-tube waiting on football and watched another home show. This time my curious nature got me to thinking about the Federal requirement that shower heads (for residential use) in the USA cannot pass more than 2.5 gallons-per-minute.
Why would they make this constraint when one could simply install N shower heads to get to the flow they are looking for? Is the source pipes (delivering hot & cold water) such that at the shower location not more than 2.5 GPM can be taken from the pipe, too?
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It's my understanding that one shower head is limited to this 2.5 GPM but there is no regulation on the number of shower heads in a shower. I've seen shower stalls with 6 or 8 heads.
Some one I know who installed one said it was the biggest pain in the a$$ to get all the heads balanced. But that's off the subject.
What? Balanced, in pressure? I would have imagined that 50 companies made water pressure regulaters and HD & Lowes carried at least 20 non-overlapping models. But, your comment isn't too far off topic and it is appreciated.
Now, if we could get around the 1.6 GPF (gallon per flush) toilets ...
> Now, if we could get around the 1.6 GPF (gallon per flush) toilets ...
They're no big problem. I just flush 3-5 times in a row, and they'll clear. Upsize the cold supply so they re-fill faster.
-- J.S.
sorry for hijacking this topic. I shared your iritation with the 1.6 gallon toilets but I just put 2 toto toilets in my house and they are really great my girls would clog the old 1.6 kolers almost daily and now it is only a once a year event. Anyway worth every extra penny.Troy
You should try our 2.5G Eljers -- make those Kohlers look flawless by comparison.--------------
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I would guess 2 things:
First - They figure that most folks aren't intelligent enough to think about istalling multiple showerheads in a shower.
Second - The guys who wrote the law may not be intelligent enough to realize that it's possible to install multiple showerheads in a shower.
I'd lean towards the 2nd one. (-:
.
I could easily drill out the restrictors in our shower heads to get more flow. But DW and the kids take such long, hot showers that I don't intend to.
Hey Boss, the shower head I installed a couple of months ago had what appeared to be a rubber washer with an opening that was small on the internal diameter that that of the shower head's metal construction. Someone suggested that it was for constricting hot-water flow to prevent against scalding. Maybe I should remove this?
I'm no plumbing expert, but - Putting a washer in a showerhead would do almost nothing to prevent scalding. It would just slow the water flow down a bit. Leaving the washer/restrictor out would likely increase your water flow. But I wouldn't do it, unless you don't have teenagers and/or a Wife that likes long, frequent, painfully hot showers.
My girlfriend told me I needed to be more affectionate, so I got two more girlfriends.
No kids in this household. My myself and the wife. Ans she likes cooler showers rather than hotter ones.
"But I wouldn't do it, unless you don't have teenagers and/or a Wife that likes long, frequent, painfully hot showers."
Boss,
I've been wishing I put in one of those heat exchangers between the shower drain and the cold water feed to the shower. It's vertical run of 2"(?) copper for the shower drain wrapped with 3/8" or 1/2" copper for the cold feed. Bringing my 38F feed up to 65F would of course save hot water dollars and allow longer showers. But it always reduce the sensitivity of the controls. I think they were designed in Florida - a tiny little turn makes a big difference in the subarctic.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Same here in regards to the point of use water heaters. I think the one used shower, kitchen sink, and clothes washer are the three consumers that cannot provide their own water heating.
"I've been wishing I put in one of those heat exchangers between the shower drain and the cold water feed to the shower. "
I didn't know anything like that existed. But it sounds like a good idea.
If it messes up the controls, I guess you could always run the water heater feed through the heat exchanger loop. That would accomplish more or less the same thing...
Q: How does a woman know her husband's cheating?
A: When he starts taking a shower twice a week.
"I didn't know anything like that existed. But it sounds like a good idea."
http://gfxtechnology.com/
I believe the idea behind the product you mention is to temper the feed temp to your hot water heater.
I could be wrong though.It's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
[email protected]
Note: We are discussing a heat exchanger that warms the cold water going to the shower by wrapping the feed pipe around the vertical drain pipe from the shower (which contains hot water going down the drain).
A version that heated the feed to the HWH would save the same number of BTUs and extend the shower the same amount.
However, it would have to have 3/4" tubing on the cold side of the HX. Because the whole house flow would go go through. So I'm pretty sure what I saw was for a more point-of-use application because it was 3/8" or 1/2" wrapped on the outside.
A whole house unit would be nice to have be on the main drain to capture heat from warm water from whatever fixture as it leaves the house. But it is tricky to have a low-pressure-drop, high-efficiency HX. Those attributes are trade-offs with each other.
The shower version, with it's vertical mounting, utilizes 1) the fact that you don't have big chunks leaving your shower and 2) that water clings to a vertical wall and goes down the pipe as a film against the inside diameter. Those things wouldn't be true in a whole-house drain.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
A whole house unit would be nice to have be on the main drain to capture heat from warm water from whatever fixture as it leaves the house. But it is tricky to have a low-pressure-drop, high-efficiency HX. Those attributes are trade-offs with each other.
That's what I saw.It's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
[email protected]
>Note: We are discussing a heat exchanger that warms the cold water going to the shower by wrapping the feed pipe around the vertical drain pipe from the shower (which contains hot water going down the drain).
David -
Here is a picture of a drain heat recovery system. However it is hard for me to believe that the device is as effective as claimed in the accompanying text:
http://oikos.com/esb/49/gfx.html
And articles:
http://www.toolbase.org/techinv/techDetails.aspx?technologyID=168
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13040
Edited 10/25/2005 12:57 am ET by CaseyR
This doesn't much apply to the locations up north but some of the houses I wire include a heat recovery coil that sucks heat from the high pressure refrigerant line coming from the compressor. This heat is used to preheat the water going to the water heater. A double benefit in that it is making both the AC and water heater more efficient. Given that the AC season down here is often nine months of the year this makes sense. Given the AC season in BC is, what, maybe a week, I don't suppose it would work really well there.I don't know what the savings may, Florida or BC, be but it makes some sense to me for us southerners. Now if you could figure a way of tapping the waste energy in a hurricane you would have something.
These are used (in reverse) in common refrigerated drinking fountains. The condenser tubing makes a few turns around the drain pipe before going to the finned condensor.
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"However it is hard for me to believe that the device is as effective as claimed..."
I thought the same thing. That sounds like a bit of a stretch to me.
I think the idea is sound, though. Maybe the idea will be improved on and they'll find a better way to do it one of these days...
I once took a yoga course, but it was a scam. I'm still a little bent out of shape about it.
"However it is hard for me to believe that the device is as effective as claimed in the accompanying text:"
Yes, "More than half" of the heat recovered isn't real. That can be done, but you need huge surface area and turbulent flow (i.e. pumps). I'd estimate it as about 25-30% efficient, which, since it has not operating costs, is a nice bonus.
The photo seemed to have the 1/2" copper simply wrapped around the 3" drain pipe. I'd take the assembly to a radiator shop and have them dunk it in their tank of solder. That would help make a more conductive connection between the in-flow and out-flow.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I would imagine that the thing is soldered. No sense putting on more solder than you need -- solder you can see isn't doing any good.Of course, it should also be wrapped in insulation.I've often speculated about using a grey water holding tank for heat recovery. Maybe 25-50 gallons. Would eliminate some of the problem with having to have hot water be drawn as water is draining.Someone with some fluid flow smarts could even install baffels in a way that would help to separate hot water from cold, and keep them in separate sections of the tank.The problem with this, of course, is that it would fill with crud over time and become a bit of a septic tank. And there would be safety concerns with running the potable water pipes through it to pre-warm water for the water heater.
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No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
Another programmer and I were chatting about how much heat the new computers toss out, and he had been thinking that there should be a way to capture all the heat from appliances in a house and use the heat for something like hot water. It sure seems silly to run A/C to remove heat from a building and then run a water heater to put heat in water.And these new P4 3+ Ghz chips are incredible! I think I could cook dinner on one.
"how much heat the new computers toss out . . . a way to capture all the heat"
I'm imagining a water-cooling loop running from a holding tank to your PC and back. With a copper of aluminum plate that clips to the back of the processor chip. LOL.
One problem is you'd have to redo the installation every 2-3 years when you replace your computer.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I'm imagining a water-cooling loop running
Eack! I'm having a flashback to water-cooled main frame components on raised floor . . .
The nifty PC brochure comes in, a desktop, with speakers, printer, free mouse pad--all only $49.95 [Buy One, Puuuuuulleese!]* *Water-cooling installation additional.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Water cooling of PCs is quite common in the higher end gaming machines. Gamers, especially graphics intensive First Person Shooters, FPSs' tend to stress their machines more than most, possibly any, other users. To gain an edge many of the high end builders are drastically overclocking their CPUs and GPU which makes them run so hot that air cooling isn't as easy. Many of the chips are kept perilously close to overheating and loss of cooling can doom chip sets. Water cooling, sometimes including refrigeration systems and water chillers, is seen by many as the way to go. A good way to extract a lot of heat from a small source.It opens up vast areas of engineering difficulties, like how to handle condensation in an electronically sensitive environment, and phantasmagoric visions of minor equipment failures cascading into disaster, a pinhole in a water line can short out all sorts of things and simultaneously allow the CPU and GPU, graphics processor, to convert themselves into key fobs by overheating at the same time. And it can happen in a fraction of a minute.Some have gone as far as to install redundant systems.
Yes, some shower heads make 2.5 gpm by having a simple washer or disk with a little hole, about 3/16". Removing that or just overdrilling by an 1/16" or an 1/8" will make a huge difference. HOWEVER, with greater pressure behind the holes in the shower heads, you may not get the "gentle, heavy rainfall" effect you desire. It may go from pissing on you to power washing your skin off.
There was a Sienfeld on this very topic. Kramer orders one from a catalog, very much against apartment, city, state and federal statues and everyone wants to shower at his place.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I looked at a model home last year where the master had an elaborate shower featuring six heads -- all fed from asingle 1/2" PEX line!
Like the 1.6 GPF toilets, the rules for shower heads give bureaucrats something to do. Next time you see one of those huge "sunflower" shower heads in a catalog, look for the accompanying fine print that warns about the effects of 2.5 GPM flow rates.
The first thing I do on fixtures for myself is take it apart and remove or drill out any restrictors. It's rather easy and makes a huge difference in flow.
Be careful - Someone might report you to the shower cops. "Sir, I need to see your flow restrictor. You were clocked at 4 gpm in a 2.5 gpm zone."Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
Thats the same police that get you for taking that mattress tag off.
Drill out the restrictors !!!!! Take a real shower and don't let the government tell you how to take a shower.Although I do stop at stop signs and pretty much obey the speed limit I draw the line over stupid worthless legislation about how much water comes out of the shower head....look at a picture of our planet....over 2/3's covered in what...legislation.......water!!!!! OK I'm in a fighting mood ...Let Me at 'em!!!!!! Oh and by the way next time you are plunging that giant turd down the 1.6l flush crapper thank the government and the dope who invented the freaking worthless piece of............
....Love my country...fear my Government.......
Our toilet is a Sloan Flushmate. It's got a vessel inside the tank that pressurizes with the incoming water. Flush, and you get a whooshing sound, and lose pretty much whatever you left there. And since the pressure vessel is seperate from the tank, no condensation. Seems like it was around $150.
They sound like a good idea,I think the noise would be tough to get used to.American Standard recently came out with a (gulp) new toilet advertised as Americas best flusher...I'll put one of my kids on it and we will see....
The power assist toilets have either a Sloan or zurn flushmate vessel in them , & they sell to all manufacturers. Kohler came out with a 1.6 that has a larger flapper in it so it lets the water out of the tank faster , works pretty good, it doesn't scour the sides of the bowl as well as the good ole 3.5 gal flush.
Oh BTW you can still get 3.5 gal flush toilets in Canada.
>>.look at a picture of our planet....over 2/3's covered in what...legislation.......water!!!!! Err,make that "salt water." I'm pretty sure the regulation says that if you want to take salt water showers, you can use a fire hose if you want.I'd bet 99.85% of the water we use today is treated and sanitized before it get distributed,If you don't mind paying for all the ectra costs of treatment (read, mind tax increases) go ahead and lobby to get the reg changed.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Up here in the north east we have wells and septic systems...tons of lakes , swamps and streams. We have plenty of water,it even comes into my basement from time to time. If You live in the desert ,well I would guess you would have to conserve water.If you live in the arctic you would'nt be complaining of a lack of ice...I am just making a point.Water is not wasted it is matter and cannot be created or destroyed..unless you have invented the fusion reactor,then I would like to be adopted by you...Daddy ! And if you are a conservation nut then petition the almighty government to make us have gray water systems and allow us to have "lagoon" septic systems....problem is too many idiots (not you ) make stupid decisions that don't work.No one size fits all We need more freedom to make choices for ourselves ,with some guidelines that make sense....
>>Water is not wasted it is matter and cannot be created or destroyedBut we're not talking about all water, we're talking about potable (drinkable, aka clean) water.I'd still be willing to bet that almost all of the water used in houses is "manufactured" (aka treated) and has capital and production expenses.>>And if you are a conservation nut I'm not sure about the nut part, but ever since the first Whole Earth Catalogue came out, I've been aware that we have limited resources.>>petition the almighty government to make us have gray water systems and allow us to have "lagoon" septic systems....problem is too many idiots (not you ) make stupid decisions that don't work.No one size fits all We need more freedom to make choices for ourselves ,with some guidelines that make sense....
Exactly, too many idiots would dump potentially dangerous chemicals down their greywater systems. I don't know much about lagoon septic systems or where they are appropriate or inappropriate, so can't comment specifically.Doing home inspections, however, I get to see how people view the systems and operations of their homes.Most don't screw things up (but most don't actually do anything besides maintenance and material good acquisition.)But, there are a significant number of idiots out there: God bless 'em for keeping me in work!There will always be tension between "freedom" and "societal restraints" with very few bright white lines of demarcation.Small example: Back in Newt Gingrich's 15 minutes , a cause celebre on the right among the anti-reg crowd was trumpeting how absurd it was to require banks to post braille instructions in drive through ATM machines.On its face, it did seem absurd.In the real world, a lot of people (especially in the early days of ATMS when they weren't in every convenience store - and especially in suburban and rural settings) would walk through and use the "drive through" ATMS, and there were blind folks who did so.So the "easy analysis" was simply wrong, but it made great entertainment.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I'd still be willing to bet that almost all of the water used in houses is "manufactured" (aka treated) and has capital and production expenses.
Certainly looks like 100% to me, excepting only those few residences which are entirely extra-jurisdictional (a rarer and rarer case).
So, all muni-supplied water is potable. Ever increasingly, the outflow & runoff water is required to be potable, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I also suspect it was easier to manufacturer all ATMs the same way, ie with Braille, than to attempt to seperate "drive through" ones from "walk up" ones.
In the northeast..no not in the putrid cities...we generally have wells ....if there is any "treatment" it is usually to get rid of some of the minerals ..ie. water softener. and Dude you are scaring me .."Mother Earth News " quit smoking that stuff...why do you think they call it dope ????
>>"Mother Earth News " quit smoking that stuff...why do you think they call it dope ????Ahh, I believe I mentioned the Whole Earth Catalogue, not Momma Earth News.That is why they call it dope, I guess.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
You generally have wells -- and septic tanks. And the runnoff from the septic tanks is getting into the wells.There are very few areas of the country that can't benefit from reduced household water consumption.
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.......yeah...but its MY RUNOFF !!! LOL....
I know what you are saying,I have had the wells tested for things even the labs hav'ent heard of and we are squeeky clean. ..I think we need to get back to the context of the original post... fed regs and 2.5gpm shower heads..WE get dirty,dusty,sticky .....doing the work we do...the point I was making was...I personally like a fire hose for a shower (preferably warm ) I grew up with no water pressure and I prefer lots of water.. I know all of my 7 kids like my shower too,it rinses thier hair out ...or something like that...anyway...I am also for small government in a BIG way....keep those corrupt lying bastards out of my life ,and definetly out of my shower !!! I only barely tolerate them in my wallet...
...America , Love it or leave it..........ok I'll stay !
So you don't like what is essentially a voluntary limit on shower heads. Great. The hints and suggestions that water be conserved hadn't worked too well. So they pumped up the volume by restricting sale of wasteful shower heads. Because you, and so many like you, still haven't caught on, and water is becoming more a national and international bone of contention every day, the pressure will be increased. Restrictions will be tightened and those things which are not enforced will be more tightly controlled. Pressure will increase until compliance is obtained. By any means necessary. Get used to the idea. Used to be rugged individualists could just move out into the woods. Distant woods and frontier areas, where you could move to and 'do your own thing', are all gone. Every square foot of territory on this planet is owned and jealously guarded. Every back yard adjoins someone's front yard. Everywhere is down stream and/or down wind from somewhere else. There is nothing you can do to change that. Might change if we colonize Mars but not in my lifetime. Laugh and posture your defiance all you want. Water is serious business. As the western saying goes: 'whiskey is for drinkin and water is for fightin over'.Don't worry the pipelines are coming your way and all that excess water you have will be going away shortly. Water shortages in the SW and west are soon going to be your problem too. If not in your lifetime then in your kid's.
Are you serious?
Most of B.C. is tractless wilderness - when I used to climb there we'd name the unnamed mountains after our children. There are many, many places untouched by mankind. And huge glaciers full of fresh water.
Our county (Western MD) is growing like crazy - it seems there is no land left...until I flew over once in a plane - all trees as far as you could see but roads and houses were scarce. It was a very different perspective.
I hereby renounce showers forever - for the good of mankind (or is mankind the problem?) :-)
Actually I wonder if a good solid soaking shower might use less water than a long drip session.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Re: "There are many, many places untouched by mankind. And huge glaciers full of fresh water."Florida was mostly swamps and untouched until the 40s. Sixty years later there is no longer many unsettled areas left. Used to be military pilots flying over most of Florida had to take survival training. Now there is virtually nowhere in the state where you can't walk in any direction for ten miles and not run into 'civilization'. Even most of the everglades has roads and a considerable population. Look close at those "huge glaciers full of fresh water" most every glacier in the world is receding. Not uncommon to find ground that hasn't seen daylight in centuries. Literal cubic miles of ice have disappeared, flowed off into the ocean. Perhaps this doesn't apply to your glaciers. But they would be bucking the trend if it doesn't.Not too many years ago northern and central Florida was considered flush with water, pardon the pun, they had almost too much. Plenty to spare. Fighting over water seemed ludicrous. Now the water has become a bone of contention. South Florida is already planning on running pipelines up to north Florida to make sure Miami and the mouse have plenty to keep their pools full, their SUVs shiny and golf courses green. It is all coming your way. If not in your lifetime then in your children's. And yes. Mankind is the problem. Sooner we learn to control ourselves the sooner we will start to get a handle on the problems. Low-flow toilets and shower heads are a step in the right direction.
Florida is a drop (pardon my expression) in the bucket. Its a huge world, we all live in it, and we need to be wise about how we live here.
But making my 30 gallon shower take 12 minutes isn't the solution.
I respect people who want to preserve the planet. I'm just not sure about the "science" some folks are using when it is driven by ideological bias and interpretation. When I was in school, it seemed like the goal of the greenies was to eradicate man from the planet.
So environmental folks make me uneasy, and so many of the extreme folks have lost their heads, the same heads they use to interpret data on the environment and our impact. Every few years the sky is falling, etc...
You're probably not one of these extreme folks, so rest easy.Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
>>Are you serious?http://www.southendpress.org/2004/items/WaterWars
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/26728/story.htm
http://www.hewett.norfolk.sch.uk/curric/NEWGEOG/Africa/waterwar.htm
Etc
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
"are you serious"
I really thought he might have been joking, given the tone, so I was refering more to how he said it.
Water is precious, and some areas are running out. But that some areas are running out of water means others will is a red herring.
Making my shower take longer b/c of Florida and SoCal is silly, but maybe sometimes one size fits all is the the only fair way to operate?
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
You may be right as to the big picture, but where I live, water travels in a closed loop. There are no municipal systems, so we're all on wells and septic systems. So, yeah, I've taken out the flow restrictors in my shower heads, too. I don't treat myself to many luxuries, but I'm not putting up with weenie shower volumes if I can avoid it. Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
>>I've taken out the flow restrictors in my shower heads, too. ... but I'm not putting up with weenie shower volumes if I can avoid it.For the record, the choice of shower head is another way to significantly change perceived flow and pressure.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Bob, you know I love you, but I've used some pretty high end low flow shower heads, and they all suck compared to significant volume. Sometimes, size does matter.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
<Blush mode> Back atta ya </Blush mode>I figured a hammer wielding rhetoritician such as yourself would need a large flow, but I also figured lurkers should know there are other options. (there is a kitchen and bath shop near me that has a demo shower room with a bunch of different heads to people can see/feel the differences.)BTW, what do you keep your system pressure at?And, I was surprised there were any well types left on the east coast, I guess I'm too urbanized!
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I'd have to look, but I think my well pressure is the 45-50 psi area.
In the northeast, if you're not in a town, with sidewalks and nosy neighbors, you're on a well. In Litchfield county where I live, I believe that only New Milford, Litchfield, Torrington, and Winstead have municipal water. If you look at a CT map, you'll see that they don't take up a lot of room in the northwest corner of the state.
You are right, btw, that there are better low flow shower heads. Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
If you look at a CT map, you'll see that they don't take up a lot of room in the northwest corner of the state.
The last time (be like 1979) I was in that part of CT, I remember it as being nicely rural (if not having Texas-like distances between things or places <g>)
You are right, btw, that there are better low flow shower heads.
The trick is finding the one that "feels" right to the customer. I know the last time I dealt with this, we narrowed the choices down to three, and mounted a test rig up outside using the same size supply to pick one. (Wound up being style, they were all about the same, at least to me.) Hmm, I wonder where that rig is . . . (too much stuff . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
It's still quite rural, but growing. My own town, Roxbury, has only about 2200 people. My wife, a mail lady, could probably name most of them. The average time I sit in the market before someone I know walks in is 7 minutes. The dynamic is slowly changing, though. Currently it's a mix of long-time locals who've owned land for ever, a few lucky stiffs like us who got in before prices skyrocketed, and a whole bunch of trustafarians and cityots building second homes. What's likely to keep it rural is the fact that most people can't afford to buy there now. Sadly, that will eventually move out the locals as their kids can't afford the town. Oh well. Those forces aren't terribly different from what drove the western expansion in the 19th century. Watch out you midwesterners, New England's children will be coming to steal your land pretty soon.... Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
Watch out you midwesterners, New England's children will be coming to steal your land pretty soon....
They get to the Ohio, the Mississippi, and the land might swallow up their dreams. That change in scale can be elusive, make it easy to bite off more than a person (an estate <tehe>) can chew . . .
There's room in my county for any nor-easters feeling displaced. They will not be used to how far apart things are. Or that things can be inexpensive. Usually the hardest part for most to get over is that the trees don't change color that much (barring a drought, like now), and you can walk around the county with a snow shovel over your shoulders, and only another displaced norteño would be able to identify that funny thing you're carrying around.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
compared to significant volume. Sometimes, size does matter.
Well yeah. Choice of head matters, too. The "rain" heads can be very disappointing to those expecting something different than they are. 2" supply line is not likely to make much difference i nthe flow rate (it's not supposed to, for most or the rain heads I've seen).
On the other hand, some of the "body spray" units could stand having an, at least optional, volume reducing washer (or leastways, I know of some customers who'd be happier that way).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Only, you, Bob would defend low flush toilets.
And government regulations on flushing.
Hard Eight Bar B Que, Brady, Texas
"Always bet the Hard Eight!"
>>Only, you, Bob would defend low flush toilets.Or, perhaps, you exist within an overly narrow venue.Since the low flush requirement made it through the regulatory process, I would have thought it pretty obvious that I don't stand alone.But, obviously, I was wrong about how obvious it is.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Well, looks like you have single handledly turned this topic contentious.
The three prior posts were all aginst you on the topic.
Do you ever get the hint?
Hard Eight Bar B Que, Brady, Texas
"Always bet the Hard Eight!"
>>Well, looks like you have single handledly turned this topic contentious.Hmmm. As best I recall, I wasn't the one who said:>>Only, you, Bob would defend low flush toilets.QUOTE
Main Entry: con·ten·tious
Pronunciation: k&n-'ten(t)-sh&s
Function: adjective
1 : likely to cause contention <a contentious argument>
2 : exhibiting an often perverse and wearisome tendency to quarrels and disputes
ENDQUOTE
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
"Do you ever get the hint?"
I've been hanging around here for about 8 years, and he hasn't yet. I wouldn't look for that to change anytime soon.
IMHO it's best to put him on ignore. Then you miss the political drivel, but have the option to read any of his posts in non-political threads.
I called the family doctor this morning and said: "My Wife dislocated her jaw - do you think we could get an appointment in a week or two?"
LOL
BTW, you'd better watch out, or IC will accuse you of being contentious, too.
>>IMHO it's best to put him on ignore. A very mature approach to life:
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>>Then you miss the political drivel, but have the option to read any of his posts in non-political threads.
IC doesn't participate anywhere else in the forum.
All he contributes here is his own brand of political drivel
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Looks like the shoe is fitting you pretty well, Bob.
And you know it, too.
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." Pascal
Good advice. I try to just let his comments slide................
..............down the drain.
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." Pascal
Smashing retort old chap, I've overwhelmed with you wit and perspicuityAs I've noted before, I think it is merely good old common sense for you to be so to be fixated on my comments here, and I deeply appreciate your devotion to all things me.Others might suggest a good mental health professional, however.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
IC
You came in here with the political crap. Take it back to the tavern!
God is there anyplace to get away from this sh!t.
Doug
Chill, youngun'.
There is nothing political in admonishing Bob for taking up for low flush toilets.
He was the first to come in and act like low flush toilets were the best thing ever and a lot of people think they aren't. His position didn't surprise me; Bob being Bob and all.
Get your panties out of the wad they are in and do like I'm doing with Bob's lame comments back to me...................let it flush .................
...............down the drain."All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." Pascal
>>He was the first to come in and act like low flush toilets were the best thing ever and a lot of people think they aren't.If you will recall, I was simply responding to those who were suggesting that there is no good reason for them.Best thing ever? Far from it. And this isn't the first time you have completely misstated what I have said.I repeat, your seemingly unending need to dwell on my messages makes perfect sense to me: I think I am fascinating.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 10/21/2005 7:03 am ET by rjw
IC
Where do you come off calling me "youngun"
You better check yourself.
You don't have anything constructive to say in any thread so go back to the tav where your drivel is acceptable behavior.
Personally you'd think you being from Texas that the low flush toilet was a good idea. You do know that the amount of water down there in the ground is finite don't you.
Living along the 35 corridor with the amount of people that are moving to Texas theres just not going to be enough water to handle it. Low flush toilets are just one thing to lessen the burden on the water system.
You know all low flush toilets are not the same don't you? Sure when you go into HD and buy that $70 El Chepo crapper you have to flush it multiple times to do the job. Spend a few more bucks and get one that works, got two of them in my house and both work fine.
Your so offended by everything that Bob says why don't you put him on ignore? I personally think your stalking the guy. You follow him around and read everything he says so you can rebut with some nonsensical BS. Try coming up with something on your own for a change!
Doug
Edited 10/21/2005 5:32 pm ET by DougU
So now you just follow around taking up for Bob.
Go flush your low flow......................twice.
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." Pascal
Great response!!!
Who was it that said your no quick thinker???
Re: "Only, you, Bob would defend low flush toilets."I think low water use toilets are a great idea. Anything that allows more efficient use of a limited resource is good. Not a few technologists and students of international conflicts over resources have noted that while the 20th century can be seen as a fight over oil the 21st may well end up as being best characterized as a fight over water.
I took all the restrictors out of our shower heads. You'd be surprised to see how fast your wife or daughter gets out of the shower with a high flow rate. The reason women take so long in showers with flow restriction is because they use shampoo, conditioner, moisturizers, etc., and they've got to rinse that junk out. Whenever we go to our daughters new home, it takes me twenty minutes to rinse the soap out of my hair and I don't have a third of the hair my wife has.
I keep threatening to take my tools and rip that showerhead in the guest bath out and fix it.
If you're worried about energy add a solar collection system. Best money you'll ever spend on energy conservation. Unless you live in Seattle. I just have a small collection system and my worst power bill has been near $90. That's in an all electric house!
I don't buy that at all. I've been in the shower with DW many times. She does rinse her hair endlessly. But she also piddles around like she has all the time in the world. My 2 teenaged Sons also dawdle forever in the shower. (I don't wanna think about what teenaged boys do in the shower) Increasing the water flow will do nothing to speed them up. I left the restrictors in, and keep the water heater turned down as low as I can. That way if they all 3 take showers back-to-back the water starts cooling off and they bail out. If I took out the restrictors and cranked up the heat they'd stay in the shower twice as long...
If you get out of the shower clean and dry off with a clean towel, then why do you have to wash the towel?
"I've been in the shower with DW many times."
How big is your shower, Boss? If the Dukes of Hazard tells me anything, you shower must either be huge or the wife pretty skinny. lol
I have to say that I am all business in the shower. I'm in their to get clean, not acquainted.
"How big is your shower, Boss?"
Not big enough!
First off - I don't look like Boss Hogg - More like Uncle Jessie.
But DW looks like Rosanne Barr....
Plunder globally. Manage media locally.
Afetr 81 replies, I have no confidence this will be read, but my current shower had that blue, finned, plastic flow inhibitor in it. I'm not a law breaker, but I was curious, so I pried it out just to see how it was designed. Unfortunately, it popped out and rolled into the nearby hall as my wife was just vacuuming there, and she sucked it up. Not one to go diving into floor refuse, I let it go. The shower works fine fine, by the way. Interestingly, this same thing happened with my last shower..funny about coincidence.
You'll be hearing from guys in black helicopters any minute now.--------------
No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
DanH,
You can't possibly believe that the "black helicopter " people monitor this site? Excuse me, my wife has "Surface" on kind of loud, and it's getting hard to hear. What, that was on last night, so what's that I'm hearing? I'll get back....