Replies

1. 
   omaha | Feb 13, 2006 07:24am | #1

   As a painter I would rather do it.  I know at least that the caulk being applied is not pure silicone and the putty is sandable!   I have had jobs where homeowners or other tradesmen were trying to be "helpful"  and it was a nightmare. 

1. 
   locolobo | Feb 13, 2006 07:56am | #3

   As a finishing carpenter, I would rather the painter do the filling, however; around here, the painters are refusing to do the job that they're getting paid for, and the builders are forcing the carpenters to do the filling and caulking. (unpaid; of course).

   I had one painting company owner in form me and the builder's super, that "his people would do all the filling and caulking", and then his painter shows up the next day and raises Cain 'cause this stuff was not done before he showed up.

   When told about what his boss had said, he bad-mouthed his boss, said the guy didn't know the first thing about painting, etc. etc., and proceeded to lambast me for not doing the filling anyways.

    

   I have also had a problem with a particular floor layer who; when laying lino over plywood; refused to "float" the entire floor. I was "forced" to return and supply 17 sheets of G1S plywood and reinstall the subfloor, at my own expense because of this.

   When I did floor coverings, when laying lino over plywood, it was a "must" that you "floated" the entire surface, as plywood is soft-surfaced, and very susceptible to nicks and gouges in the time between the time the subfloor gets installed, and the lino gets placed. Cabinet installers here are not very careful about not damaging the subfloor, since "it's getting covered anyways". They leave some major gouges behind.

    

   It seems that every body around here is a "prima-donna", and refuses to work unless conditions are "perfect". Painters only want to paint... floor layers only want to lay floors.... no-one wants to do the prep work that is required by their own trade any more.

    

   locolobo

   Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

1. 
   alrightythen | Feb 13, 2006 08:19am | #5

   yes...you are onto something about the prepwork..and to me the prep is just as important.

   I recently had a bad experience with a painter who did a crappy job on his prep. his excuse was that it wasn't a "new" house so don't expect it to be perfect. I had offered to do the prep work because I knew that it needed to be done right and I thought I could save him some time and lower the price a bit. but he said he wanted to do it, so that was fine. ( price wasn't a big issue)  I paid him what he wanted and didn't squabble.

   but he missed a good portion of the holes and did stuff like paint over blobs of old drywall mud on the base..just to get started ......  I told him whats the point of doing a good paint job if it looks like crap because of poor prep.

   Edited 2/13/2006 12:28 am ET by alrightythen

1. 
   alrightythen | Feb 13, 2006 08:27am | #7

   well - one painter, one builder, and one trim carpenter, all signs point to the painter. I should trust my painter seeing as how I did aprove his work when I checked it out.

2. 
   locolobo | Feb 13, 2006 08:32am | #8

   I spent a year working with my BIL in his paint shop, and our ratio was approx 80% prep time; 20% paint time. The compressor spent more time running the sanders than it did the paint gun.

   Prep is "all important". If the prep is not done properly, the final job looks like garbage.

   We turned out some beautiful finishes from some of the most ridiculous junk you ever saw. But the customers loved it, and paid willingly; even though sometimes the cost of the finishing was more than the piece was worth.

   I have no problems with doing the prep work, I just expect to get paid properly for it... and when the builder accuses me of shoddy workmanship because I didn't do all the prepwork (for free, yet) I can get rather upset.

   Oh well... not doing work for that builder anymore!!!

    

   locolobo

   Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

2. 
   alrightythen | Feb 13, 2006 08:08am | #4

   hmmm...I didn't see that coming. I was thinking the other way around. But I can see your point a lot of peeps could make a mess of things for you come time to apply the paint I guess. I was thinking if the painters do it then I wan't them to do a good job on the nice trim that I put up. but if they are like you then I guess they will. Then I got to wondering who normally does it?

   I am doing the trim in my 1st build. and am quite meticulous when it comes to such things. (I'm framer by trade) usually I'm havn't been around when it comes time for the trim and paint. although the odd time have been back for some additional back framing or exterior work and have seen what things look like in high end homes. just don't remember seeing who did what.

   the caulk should not be gooped on, once painted all good caulk jobs become invisible. which most average joes are clueless about ( I seem to recall pulling out the razor blade years ago to remove the freshly placed caulk from a "helpful" HO) - so I hear ya.

   In the high end homes that I've seen what  has been used was bondo for filling the holes. ( the stuff used for auto body work) I sorta thought maybe the trim carpenters filled it, but maybe the painters did...not sure that's why I'm asking. I recently tried that stuff and was amazed with the results..... pretty much anything I've tried shrinks even the stuff that says "won't shrink" always seems to need a second coat, either that or load it up and ur stuck with heavy sanding...and that's no fun. But with bondo will not - does not and won't shrink plus as u sand it, it changes colour. so if their happens to be a hollow that is not making contact with the sanding, you can tell because the colour is different. - the only drawback to bondo is that you have mix it, it smells bad , and you have a limited time to work with.

    

1. 
   cowtown | Feb 13, 2006 10:49am | #9

   What yer  talking about is not Bondo, but rather Glazing putty, a solvent based , fast drying and easily sandable filler which is routinely used for filling holes. Try it you'll like it.

   I know it's red and hard to cover, and that the sanding dust can discolour carpets, and although I've looked for white compound, the only white compound I've found is "white lightening" two part bondoid stuff, BUT there was an article in a past FHB which showed the trim carpenter using a whitish glazing compound. I just ain't found it yet.

    

   Incidently, some MDF constructs I had done I had filled with nail holes with this, and when they called in the painters, the owner of the company walked into the living room and honest to god the first thing he said was "you've got a finishing carpenter who knows what he's doing, and when I asked him what prompted that , he said " based simply on the use of glazing compound. "

   I fill my own holes for paint grade. If I don't some cretin can make my work look like ####, and I can watch it happen and be powerless to do anything about it . Been there and had that happen.

   Not that Bondo ain't kickin around the shop, I use it all the time when I have to repair defects in laminate substrate, ain't any plastic wood type stuff anywhere near as tenacious, nor as fast hardening. Once it's semi-hardened, you can plane it easily down to sandable level. Just don't sand it before it's cured, or yer gonna plug up yer belt....And if yer re-laminating a countertop, bondo will turn a chamfered corner into a straight corner, or fix any defects in yer substrate.

    And while yer strolin yer beard and cogitatin about using this stuff at yer local body shop supply house, check out their flexible body rasps....fer next time yer trying to make fair a curved cut in MDF. 

   Am I out of my mind to shop there for stuff ?

   Well, to my pea brain,  the finish on most cars is beyond what I is capable of, and they is out there in the salt and the sun and the rain.  A finish that has to be not only exquisite but durable, and expeditiously  done by fellas who is as equally focused on the bottom line  as any of us.  

    

   Eric

   in Cowtown

    

1. 
   Lateapex911 | Feb 13, 2006 01:18pm | #10

   While the norm is for the painters to fill and sand, it can go whatever way the parties agree on. whoever hires them should make sure it is understood, (in the contracts?) and the standards should be spelled out as well.

   Sometimes things are just flat unacceptable, and having a contract that spells things out helps when the painter needs to re-do his work because of poor prep.

   That said, typically, I  design, frame, and trim my work. A lot of paneling is typical. Sometimes I paint as well. But when I don't, I do any filling of anything that isn't a nailhole. My painter and I agree that I have a better eye for surface, and better skills in phenosealing, but nail holes are easy, so I don't bother with most of them. My agreement pays me by the hour, so it works out fine, and I have more control over the final appearance, which is my ultimate goal.Jake Gulick

   [email protected]

   CarriageHouse Design

   Black Rock, CT

1. 
   Stilletto | Feb 13, 2006 01:35pm | #12

   I used tp fill and caulk all my paint grade trim work until I found these retired painters from the local union,  I don't do it anymore.  They caulked clear red oak to almond vinyl faced drywall and I couldn't tell where one started and the other ended.  They custom mix their woodfillers on clear coat jobs and it matches everytime.

   Problem is they are all from Tennessee and when the four of them get to talking you can't tell what the hell they are talking about, so I just smile and say whatever you think is best,  they all start sayin GIT ER DONE its hilarious.

2. 
   alrightythen | Feb 14, 2006 03:48am | #15

   I'll have to go look at the can again...I asked for Bondo at the auto shop and I thought that is what they gave me... But you know more about it than I do. I thought it was Bondo and I've heard that that it what was used so that is what I asked for..it sure worked well whatever it was I tried.

2. 
   CAGIV | Feb 13, 2006 07:45am | #2

   Usually we have our painter do it, though there can be exceptions.

   Why do you ask?

   

1. 
   alrightythen | Feb 13, 2006 08:23am | #6

   I just put up my trim and I can't remeber seeing who does the prep work, and before I ask the painter I have lined up I wanted to know what the norm is. Also I know that if I do it, it will be done right. Then again if my painters are good ( I have seen their work and was satisfied) the they will do it right as well...

3. 
   IdahoDon | Feb 13, 2006 01:28pm | #11

   For probably 95% or more of new construction the painters fill holes and caulk.

   Remodelers are often doing more of everything, so they'll often fill holes and caulk, but only if they are used to it.

   Personally, I'm a finish carp who would rather give work over to the painters ready for primer with all sanding, hole filling and caulking already done.

   All painters I've been around the last decade prefer to use white spackling for nail holes.  It's applied slightly proud of the hole so when dry it will not shrink lower than the hole.  It's then sanded with a foam sanding block.  My favorite is the pink stuff that turns white when dry.  It's fast drying and quicker to use with the color change.

   The lacquer spot putty you mentioned (auto body glazing, or sometimes simply "glazing") is also available in a light gray at NAPA autoparts stores.   Most painters typically use it on repaint jobs and for touching up over new paint as it sticks to smooth surfaces so well.  It's also safe for use on bare MDF as it won't raise the grain so to speak, although preprimed MDF trim is typically just spackeled.

   Also highly recommended is a set of rubber profile sanding blocks.  It makes touching up corners, blending joints and other light sanding much easier and higher quality since only a couple of different shapes will sand most profiles quite well.

   Good painting,

   Don

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

4. 
   Matt | Feb 13, 2006 03:34pm | #13

   For paint grade woodwork, it should be caulked after it is primed.

   The only filling trim carps do around here, is typically on stain grade stair parts.

   I always say be aware of the trim carp who caulks his work; I want to see small gaps for the caulk to "penetrate", but I don't want a trim carp on my job who feels he has to "cover his tracts"!  :-)

    

1. 
   dryhter | Feb 13, 2006 04:18pm | #14

   Matt,

   I was taught the same way ,sort of .

   Filling nail holes was done after priming ,  so that the filler would not dry out or leech into the wood if colored .

   If I had to fill my own nail holes I would not use as many nails  and have to relie on the caulk and paint to hold everything together .  And maybe that is not a bad thing these days , just the way things are !

    I just love that phrase "GET ER DONE ! " somehow it sums up the new attitude found on the work site .

   Next thing I'll have to carry around is masking tape , and the dry wallers should start installing outlets/switches and cover plates .

    

   DAVE