Replies

1. 
   briankeith | Oct 04, 2003 07:35pm | #1

   Jeez, That is sad.

   What a corner to cut.........

   or what a stupid roofer.

   View Image
2. 
   jsvenson | Oct 04, 2003 08:33pm | #2

   Stupid roofers....................I've seen so many examples over the last 33 yrs, there seems to be a limitless supply always available. I looked at a roof a couple of weeks ago, a dimensional 30 yr shingle, and they didn't use starter strips, but they did use 8"x8" where the shingles butted together.

   I thought that was bad, Rich, but your example makes these guys look conciencious!

   John Svenson, Builder, Remodeler, NE Ohio (Formerly posted as JRS)
3. 
   dIrishInMe | Oct 04, 2003 09:39pm | #3

   Great pic!  And great point.

   Matt
4. 
   goldhiller | Oct 04, 2003 09:42pm | #4

   Beautiful.........just beautiful.

   A penny saved was indeed a dollar lost. Doh!

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
5. 
   SHazlett | Oct 05, 2003 12:25am | #5

   Rich----thanks for the laugh.

   I really have to get a digital camera so I can post pictures of some of the rooofing mistakes I stumble across.

   Ever see a roof WITH starter course----only the starter course isn't offset from the first course----so there STILL is a leak every 3 feet?

   Or a roof where a roofer interpreted using an "upside down shingle" as the starter---to mean "granule side down"?

1. 
   RichBeckman | Oct 05, 2003 12:36am | #6

   "Or a roof where a roofer interpreted using an "upside down shingle" as the starter---to mean "granule side down"?"

   Damn! Another thing I've been doing wrong! :-)

   Stephen,

   I'm sure you could fill a book with the stuff you've seen. And I would probably buy it!

   When you do get that camera, the Breaktime will be better for it, I'm sure.

   Rich Beckman

   Another day, another tool.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 05, 2003 01:41am | #7

   In this one, they used starters but no metal edge and they held the bottom of the shingle back about a quarter of an inch so the decking was showing to the sky. Talk about wicking! It was wicked..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   RichBeckman | Oct 05, 2003 06:17am | #8

   "they held the bottom of the shingle back about a quarter of an inch so the decking was showing to the sky."

   Well, THAT makes the guys that did the roof in MY pic look concientious!

   Rich Beckman

   Another day, another tool.

1. 
   RalphWicklund | Oct 05, 2003 06:29am | #9

   Here's another example pointing to the shortcomings of the education system/bureaucracy.

   There MUST be a reason/scapegoat that would be roofers do not/can not read the directions printed on every bundle of shingles.

2. 
   RichBeckman | Oct 05, 2003 06:50am | #10

   "Here's another example pointing to the shortcomings of the education system/bureaucracy."

   "There MUST be a reason/scapegoat that would be roofers do not/can not read the directions printed on every bundle of shingles."

   LOL!

   Rich Beckman

   Another day, another tool.

3. 
   rjw | Oct 05, 2003 12:53pm | #12

   There MUST be a reason/scapegoat that would be roofers do not/can not read the directions printed on every bundle of shingles.

   99.99% of roofers are guys.  Have you ever seen a guy read a set of instructions?

   _______________________

   Why Don't Blind People Like To Sky Dive?

   Because it scares the bejabbers out of the dog

   Your mileage may vary ....

4. 
   mitchellizer | Oct 05, 2003 01:04pm | #13

   the problem is that there is too many do it yourselfers who are uneducated

5. 
   seeyou | Oct 06, 2003 06:28pm | #26

   And too many "contractors" that are uneducated.

6. 
   IMERC | Oct 06, 2003 06:54pm | #27

   Or "buck stretchers" 

   Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....

7. 
   Piffin | Oct 05, 2003 05:14pm | #16

   the way that usually happens in my experience is that the shingle layer fails to place the shingle correctly before starting to nail. It may be running off up or down from a level position. He nails the one at the butt joint and THEN straightens the shingle, forcing a pucker into the butt.

   BTW, it's not really a fishmouth which would bew a similar uplift puicker in the middle of the shingle or of roll paper..

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   rjw | Oct 05, 2003 12:52pm | #11

   Ever see a roof WITH starter course----only the starter course isn't offset from the first course----so there STILL is a leak every 3 feet?

   Saw one the other day on a nail over with no starter on the first layer!- I figure about 10 more years.

   BTW what causes the bidsmoth beak/ridge between two shingles as in the second picture I've attached, img_1192sa?

   _______________________

   Why Don't Blind People Like To Sky Dive?

   Because it scares the bejabbers out of the dog

   Your mileage may vary ....

   Edited 10/5/2003 5:54:28 AM ET by Bob Walker

   
1. 
   xMikeSmith | Oct 05, 2003 01:21pm | #14

   either mfr's defect, or installer's defect... my guess, the 2d... they were laid too tightMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

6. 
   VinceCarbone | Oct 05, 2003 02:18pm | #15

   Rich,

   What did they do use 3' strips of paper? I would seem you'd have rot every foot(each rain grove) or maybe they used some type of gutter hanger attached to the top of the roof.

   Vince Carbone

   Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652

7. 
   HeavyDuty | Oct 05, 2003 09:36pm | #17

   Vince had his point. If starter shingles were missing, why didn't the rot show up every foot?

   May be we can start a folder "what's your diagnosis" or "case of the week" so people can exercise their brain a little bit and learn something along the way.

   Tom

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 06, 2003 12:33am | #18

   architectural shingles don't have a crotch line cutout every foot.

   Then there are metric sized three tabs that have it every 13" or so.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Oct 06, 2003 01:00am | #19

   For some reason I always thought that was three tab in the picture. Now I went back to look at it again and yes you're right, it's architectural. Where are my glasses...

   Tom

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 06, 2003 01:05am | #20

   here they are - I was sittin on them

   LOL.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Oct 06, 2003 01:09am | #21

   Are they broken? Ouch.

2. 
   IMERC | Oct 06, 2003 01:41am | #22

   Not yet . Just a minuet... 

   Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....

2. 
   RichBeckman | Oct 06, 2003 02:30am | #23

   "architectural shingles don't have a crotch line cutout every foot."

   Piffen's got it. The pic I posted easily passes for three tab at first glance. But the shingles are architectural. It confused me for a moment when I was posting it.

   "Wait! Wouldn't the rot be every foot?? What don't I remember here??"!!!

   Rich Beckman

   Another day, another tool.

1. 
   YesMaam27577 | Oct 06, 2003 02:54am | #24

   When I moved from Ohio to Carolina, and started my business, my very forst job was working on a house that had an improperly installed roof. The house was 7 years old, and I spent three weeks replacing rotted wood. (Masonite siding, and particle board ripped down to be exterior trim.)

   There were a number of mistakes in the roofing, starting with the sheathing. It did not extend all the way to the sub-fascia. In addition, there was no flashing, no step flashing, no drip edge, no felt, and an intermittent starter course. Although I'm not sure, I also suspect that the overhangs on the rakes were not built properly, since they were already sagging.

   The owners were trying to sell the house, and they eventually did. They only wanted me to fix the rotted wood, so that is what I did. I made sure that all of my paperwork specifically excluded all warranties, since I knew there would be more problems.

   The new owner called me ofter the house sold. I advised her to call a roofer, and to get a complete tear-off and re-do. I had her write down a number of things to specify (like new sheating extending to the fascia), and to be ready to pay.

   I haven't heard back from her (phew!) -- our last conversation was about a year ago. But I'm still just a bit worried about that one.

   Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.

3. 
   VinceCarbone | Oct 06, 2003 12:46pm | #25

   Wow,

   I'm waring my glasses and thought they were 3 tabs, never mind.Vince Carbone

   Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652