Another thread has brought up this topic. I feel it deserves a thread of it’s own.
Let’s say a customer comes to you and says “I want a garage.” No plans – but he needs to have some idea of the costs before he goes any further.
First of all, you need to more clearly define his need. One car or two? Car parking or workshop? How closely need it match the house?
Based upon that information, you might prepare a simple shetch, and a price. You’ll probably go into some detail as to what work will be performed.
What you DON’T do is prepare any drawings that can be submitted with a permit application. You need not – indeed should not – go into details as to the framing, the plumbing pipe schedule, or the electrical load calcs.
You want to provide just enough information that the customer knows what you propose, so he can compare proposals. This will also be the basis for further discussions. He wants a hip roof, and you drew a gable? Not a problem at this point. Indeed, you might even deliberately sketch in the wrong roof – just to discourage someone else from trying to make ‘drawings’ from your sketches.
What are your thoughts?
Replies
I tell the client that he will have to get some drawings done to get a permit. That avoids wasting my time and giving him a price. He can work out the details with an architect. By spending money on an architect he will have committed himself to some extent. He is more than "kicking the tires."
We don't charge for the initial meeting or two, and will do quick thumbnail sketches at the meeting to convey ideas. If they like what we show them, we get them to sign a design contract. You can't price what you can't see. Once it's designed we can price the construction, or someone else can.
Design can be a tough sell on small jobs, and it can help to stress that you aren't doing one bit more than absolutely necessary to convey to them what you are pricing. Most people can't draw, so you're providing a valuable service, getting their ideas onto paper where dollar signs can be attached.
reno... first meeting is free..
we discuss their needs... their budget... then i tell them what the design fee will be
i also tell them that when we submit the final drawings... we will give them a price
and... our design contract has a clause that noone else can build from our prints.... they can use the prints to have someone else redraw the job ... but due to liability we are the only ones who can build from them
they sign the Design Proposal , give us our deposit, and we begin
if someone else winds up building our design....i don't really care... i just want to make it plain where the liability is attached
i would guess that in 100 designs..... maybe 5 never got built
1. Meet the client and ask lots of questions; make sure you are both on the same wavelength and CAN do business together. This is where I loose the most potentials, usually because I decide they are too picky, indecisive, cheap, poor, anal, unrealistic, etc. Sometimes I offer a referral to someone I know who will better fit their needs.
2. Take notes. You'd look like an idiot to forget the client's name and/or phone number and specific details discussed in the first meeting. Be as detailed as possible with your notes. Document keywords the client uses over and over, noticeable misconceptions, architectural styles and nuances, and your own [unexpressed] thoughts and opinions on the project.
3. Make sketches. You got a notebook in your hand, make quick sketches of what is being proposed. Make sketchy floorplans, elevations, details, and schedules.
4. Offer estimates. Be sure to let them know they are just ballpark numbers but they give some indication of a high and low cost. Write those numbers down in your notes. Don't put too much thought into the estimates but try to aim more over than under. This is where I loose the second most potentials because it introduces reality to their dream.
5. If the estimates go over well, let them know of all the services provided (design services, rendering, working drawings, bidding, general contracting, design changes, etc) and the approximate costs of those services.
6. Shake hands, offer your business card, and go home.... DO NOT let them have any notes or sketches! You just gave them a verbal estimate and a consult for free. If they still want to go shopping, they can make their own notes and sketches. If they want to go with you, they will be willing to sign a design contract immediately or within a few days (then they can have your notes and sketches).
The way I see it is that my sketches and my notes are part of my "art".....as if during the meeting I am writing a short story with illustrations about the proposed project. In essence, during the "design" phase of "design/build", I sell concepts on paper. If I give that away for free on the first day then I am losing half my profit before I even get the job.
DC
I'm an architect not a builder (although I just completed building my third house in 20 years) and I always get the "Just come over and show us some design ideas to see if we want to go with you".
Long ago I learned I'm very good thinking on my feet over someone elses dining room table. In three hours of a design charrette I can usually have roughed out one option if not a few and most of the problems are more complicated then "I want a garage" scenerio. I like to do it Saturday morning when everyone's fresh and don't like to go anymore then three hours, when everyone's brain, including mine, begins to suffer from overload.
These aren't permit drawings, they're design concepts directed at solving problems. I leave all the bumwad sketches with them, drawing big stars on the ones that are "end result" as it's a morphing process eveyone's just been through.
Point being, I charge for all this and you guys should too. The Saturday session usually falls within $300-$400. I figure if a person isn't willing to part with $300-$400 then they're probably not mentally up for 100K or 200K or more in construction costs.
Runnerguy
Right on the money, Runnerguy. You wouldn't sit in a lawyer's office ,on a Saturday no less, for free!
Nothing qualifies a prospect more than when they have to pay right from the start.
3-4 block elevations and a simple plan wouldn't require a lot of thought for a rough estimate. You can't control what others do with your work. But you can control how professionally you want to present yourself. i wouldn't see the problem with some quick line drawings to flesh things out a little.
"You can't control what others do with your work. "But you can control at what point you hand it over - before or after you get paid for it.3d conceptual scribbles are all I give them until I get an agreement and money
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you might prepare a simple shetch, and a price.
I wont even do that anymore unless its a good customer. There was a company called __ __ Designs here in town that called me to cut in a roof once. She had designed the building with no idea how to cut it in. I gave her a price and she said "could you draw that for me please so I can see how you are going to do it?" Needless to say I didnt get to do it. She used her guys and my drawing.
Bid and drawing.......$0 dollars
Seeing her working at Lowes three years later.......priceless
Newbie lesson learned I guess
Due to the recent state of the economy, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off