the final word on engineered floors
nordindevelopment
| Posted in General Discussion on
What’s your opinion?
were installing new flooring in the cabin, which is unheated,unconditioned, and want to do engineered because of the low profile, among other things. There is T&G subfloor, with tile from the 60’s on top.
Should we glue and staple? Tar paper and staple? tear out the tile? Leave it?other?
This is a cabin, meant to enjoy and hang out, not ever gonna be in home & gardens.—we’ve already spent too much time with the remodel, —I gotta get rid of the “if were gonna do this, we could do that” mentality if I ever want to go fishing.
—I’d love some feedback so I can take care of this, install the cabinets, and put the beer cooler back where it belongs.
-a
Replies
Greetings n,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
Let's hope this isn't the final word.
bump
be wordy
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
It's a little unclear to me what you are asking.
When I read "engineered floor" I think of I-joists, maybe floor trusses...
But reading your question it seems you might be asking about finshed flooring materials and you are trying to install something over tile. Maybe if you rephrase the question someone could answer, I gotta run.
Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
If I understand your question correctly, I'll offer this opinion.
Go to Sam's Club, buy their engineered t&g flooring (the cheapest there is, as far as I can tell), and install it with the "pad" (which consists of a foam material less than 1/8" thick).
We put the Sam's stuff on some of the floors in our new house. We've been in for about 1.5 years and I'm amazed at how good it looks. We get compliments on our "wood" floor.
My son put down about 600 square feet of the stuff in less than two days.
Is this material something I rave about? NO! But, it's cheap, reasonably durable, and easy to install. I bet it would look fine in your cabin and last a very long time, given part-time use of the cabin.
I wouldn't worry about the old tile, but it could be tricky stapling the pad through the old tile, depending on how hard that old material is.
Have fun!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Nordin -
I'm not a big fan of engineered flooring. What I've seen of it doesn't impress me. It looks fake, and may or may not hold up over time depending on the conditions. Installation is typically fairly easy, but not so much that other flooring products should not be considered. Repair can be a royal pain. For my money, in my place, I would probably go with a prefinished full thickness (3/4") wood floor.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Repair can be done by pulling out a couple of pieces of base and unsnapping the pieces back to the problem. The stuff is really just laying there.And I agree, full dimension real wood is much better for wear and looks over a long period, and it's also several times the price.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Hasbeen -
As far as repairs, if the repair needs to be done near the last wall you worked on, and if the flooring is clipped only, you can take it apart backwards as you suggest.
I believe in Murphy's Law. The piece that needs to be taken out will be on the opposite wall and will require removing the entire floor to get to it. Plus, there are many of them out there that are glued together, not clipped. Makes it a little more of a challenge.
On the expense, IIRC (from about a year ago) , a decent manmade floor was about $4-5/square foot. The low end Bruce prefinished flooring was about $7/square foot. It seemed to me that it was even cheaper to lay regular 3/4" oak and have it finished, but I didn't get a firm price on finishing at the time.
OP needs to decide whether the cost difference is worth it. A real wood floor will outlast the manmade several times. He might rather have one that can be replaced when he's tired of it.
To each their own.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
The stuff I used from Sam's Club was less than $3 per sqr ft including the pad.My bil is in the hardwood flooring biz and he tries to get about $10 per.As you say, there's plusses and minuses to both and, again, I prefer the real stuff, too. Just depends on the individuals goals and current situation.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
I have used engineered flooring on occasion. You need to have a flat surface, that;s less than 1/8" in 10 feet. Use POZ Patch for filling the voids, it can be nailed through. Yes, put down tar paper. I look at the thickness of the finish veneer. Ideally it should be at least an eighth inch thick. This will allow for a light refinishing a couple of times.
I would avoid stuff with micro bevels. You want as flat a floor as possible. Flatter feels better. The aluminium oxide finish is great and should last in a cabin about 10 years. I have both nailed with a floor nailer & special plate and stapled. Since your floor is able to be naild down, I would use either method. They both hold the floor down.
good luck
john
Go to Home depot, lowes, or Ocean State job lots and buy the cheapest engineered floor possible. Take the afternoon installing it , then sit back and open up a couple a cold ones.
This is a get away place, so go and enjoy yourself. You only have to please your self.
Wish I was in your shoes, with that kind of problem.
good luck greg in Connecticut
PS; fill in your profile
For a cabin contemplate end grain blocks...rustic, impervious to wear, and unique in it's own right as not so many folks do it, or do it well.
6x6,4x6, 4x4, 3x4, 3x3, 2x2...use your imagination you already PAID for that, just by living life on its terms..pay some back by impressing others that come by to just kick back and take it easy, by giving them some eye candy.
Just be sure to have no answers when they ask why.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
"What I've seen of it doesn't impress me. It looks fake, and may or may not hold up over time depending on the conditions."
Fake looking could be your standard rotary peeled engineered floor. Bruce offers many lines of it, as does Hartco, Robbins, and Anderson, just to name some of the bigger manufacturers. A few that impress me is Robbins Passegiatta and the WFI exotics..both are solid sawn cut. Most engineered flooring has shorter overall lengths but the two mentioned have lengths that go to seven feet with "wear" layers of 1/8 inch.
I'd say choose what you like, although pine seems to be the prevailing choice in cabin flooring.
Edited 5/30/2006 7:55 am ET by HardwoodGuy
I s'pose ya meant that for someone else. Its Ok, the intended will find it.
I am sold on endgrain for my stuff around here in the kitchen and dineing room, and Bamboo T&G for the other parts of the house.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
you mean yer puttin in end blocks like some of those old factory floors use to do?
How deep are they before you cut and what are you bedding them into?
be cool
Beware. RFID is coming.
I set the entrance door on a PT plate so the blocks will be about 1 1/4 thick slices of 4x and 3x and 2x. Oak, Maple, Cherry Walnut..from the sawmill.
Bostics Best trowelled w/ 1/4" notch. Pack the narrow joints with sawdust/BLO/poly paste. Buff and done.
Works out to less than 1 buck a sq ft+ labor.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
What is it, a concrete base floor under it all?
Beware. RFID is coming.
Going right over the vinyl flooring already stuck on Lauan that is over the 3/4 OSB that is on 2x8 joists. All this is in the "new" part of the house, the log side is still hickory over YP subfloor. That is gonna stay distressed and grungy.
I will be champhering the top edges of the endgrain blocks just slightly with a router table. Kinda like pavers.
BTW, it is a LOT of cutting. Using the Bosch 12" slider.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
So a random pattern of 4x,3x, and 2x's?
What's BLO?
Beware. RFID is coming.
Nah, not random. I am planning on a border of Maple brick laid, field of the Oak, and Celtic Knot design of Cherry under the Kitchen table.
BLO=Boiled Linsed Oil
50/50 with satin polyurethane, mixed with the sawdust from crosscutting the blocks..pasty goo, sets up flexible so the wood can still be active but packs up the voids. and then reoiled as needed. EG SOAKS up oil, the poly helps in that respect.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
So how wide are the narrow voids?
What is EG?
What is the ratio of the poly/BLO to the sawdust?
Will all the sawdust be from kilndried?
be no I ain't a nose picker but a brain picker
Beware. RFID is coming.
Voids or gaps are like grout lines and not measured or consistant, the rails of wood have variances in all dimensions.
The ratio is not science either..wet and sloppy not dry pack.
EG =less typing =EndGrain.
Wood is airdried so is the dust
I died eraly last night, over 100 on the coper roof by noon. Worked till 300 and sweltered the hour drive home.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
So is that the final word?
Beware. RFID is coming.
That WAS some engineering no? So, Yes.
Finally. (G)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
Actually it's pretty cool and better than straight grout or mortar so...
I've got to do one sometime. A small floor to see.
be seeingdid cu invent seeing?
Beware. RFID is coming.
He he he See you got a butt movie yesterday. I heard he said this morning he felt like "date night in prison" today.
Be wondering HOW he knows what THAT feels like?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
So, seeyou invented butt movies aye? Poor soul sounds hardup for entertainment.
I watched Jack Nicholson and Jessica Lange in 'The Postman Always Rings Twice' the other day and it was a classic show.
Maybe seeyou is the real Naked Carpenter.
seeyou? dang.be afraid.be very afraid.
Beware. RFID is coming.
Edited 5/31/2006 6:30 pm ET by rez
I gotta shut up about Cu's butt or I wont be on the job tomorrow, or the next day, or next week...
Lightning rolled in early today..I took my puckered butt offa da roof faster than a speeding building.
Be faster than a speeding building
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
ok, I get the last word then.
be wordy
Beware. RFID is coming.
Got any pics of this you can share?
Not yet, the wood is still drying some more. It'll be in my thread on the house when I start/finish it...perobelly in NOv or Dec. with luck.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
fin' in nov/dec aye?
ok.
be bwaa! heh heh
Beware. RFID is coming.
I used the cheap engineered stuff for the kids rooms and what really sucks is if it gets wet it will bubble and delaminate.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
What's your opinion?"
Well here is mine based on research, experience and the test of time.
At $4.15 sq/ft you can't beat Bruce Natural Reflections. I laid down something like 2K sq/ft seven years ago, and it is holding up very well.. It is a pre-finished, solid, 5/16" product (not engineered)
I did a 2nd floor landing with leftover stuff, but glued and stapled instead of the way their directions specify, and IMO, it turned out a lot better. They say just a poly VB and staple. The glued down section doesn't move with the seasonal changes in humidity like the stapled over poly does, and doing it that way made the floor sturdier.
WSJ
how about engineered cork floring or bamboo flooring. looks nice but may not be in the chep spectrum. still goes down like other laminate floating floors.
open a couple beers then install it. it's that easy. (let someone else do the cutting though)