The thread about “jumping around between jobs” got me thinking about how tired I am of my current project, which I’ve been doing exclusively without stopping for any other small jobs here and there (the ones that help you to keep your sanity, haha).
I’m in the last couple of week of what has been (so far) a 4 month basement remodel. Two new window wells, a few closets, full bath with custom shower, hardwood flooring/tile throughout, tray ceiling, 12+ doors to hang, extension jambs all over, the full spectrum of trim, etc, etc.
I figure I will be out by the end of February. Still, it’s taking longer than I expected, and the last 5% is whooping my butt.
Come on co-commiserators, who else is in the last stages of a job that they can’t wait to get out of!?
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
“Everybody wants to know what I’m on…
What I’m on? I’m on my bike, busting my
# 6 hours a day…
…What are you on?”
– Lance Armstrong
Replies
How does it go? "The first 90% of a project takes 50% of the schedule, and the remaining 90% takes the other half." Or something like that.
The last 5-10% is a PITA in any project. I can't tell you how many times I've finished a programming project and then found one more bug in "final" testing ... and then one more after that in the next "final" test, ad nauseum.
"The first 90% of a project takes 50% of the schedule, and the remaining 90% takes the other half." Or something like that.Also Known as "the last week takes a month"------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Justin,
I know you are at this sort of part time. That will mean longer. Longer sometimes gets you to the point of never seeing the end, at least not for a long time. You need to decide on doing the big ones or dropping back to smaller projects. The end is near (er on the short projects)
Job burnout is an art form.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
wow ...........talk about timing!
I just finished unloading my truck of all the tools, staging, planks, etc from a barn job I started last spring.
The deal was I'd put in a day a week on the barn, maybe 2 if something changes on my other, (more important) job. Replaces some sills, repair a few joints, new joists, etc. Be done by the end of summer. The homeowner agrees.
Everything goes just fine.
Until he hired a concrete guy. Low bid kinda guy. Was going to rent forms, form company wouldn't give him credit......decided to build his own forms, started the pour and they blew out, still has 8 yds in the truck. It's only 36' pf 8' wall. Nine weeks goes by before he tells the homeowner he hurt his back and couldn't finish the job.
Homeowner hires another concrete guy, 2 weeks later all is done, except now the budget didn't allow for a brick shelf. I was going to make some money laying brick......but not now.
Blows my schedule all to hell. I had to start another job and couldn't get to the barn until last month. Had to finish up in cold weather which isn't all that fun.
But I'm done today. Spent all day putting braces in, and cleaning up.
It did take longer than expected and I'm glad it's done.
Rod
Not so much a project, but a customer. Not bad people, but they have kept me busy with fill-in work since early September. I'm just kind-of running low on patience, but finished the second to last project a few hours ago, and haven't unloaded tools and trash yet.
Last project will be a full basement renovation, but they are going to put it off until at least fall.
Some of the stuff they have done included an elevated Trex deck and stairway on a rental, cabinets and counters for a garage workshop at their residence, renovation of a garage on a property they own, including building a small office for the owner, and insulating and sheetrocking the entire inside of the structure. 2 new kitchens, demo and re-build a tiled tub area, and a lot of miscelaneous stuff on a couple of duplexes they own.
Very fussy, even about their rentals. The rentals are probably better than 90% of the houses I work on.
They are retired and the husband has nothing to do except show up every 2 hours to see what I have gotten done.
Bowz
That's exactly the situation I'm in as well. The homeowner is a great guy, very friendly, but he works from home so he comes downstairs to worry about every little detail as it's progressing.
He cares about quality work, and I get that. But it wears me down to reassure him so much, you know?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
Just tell him it's the first time you've ever done this...........you really need to be left alone in order to figure it out!
First guy I ever worked carpentry for used to say often; "Anyone can start a job, it's finishing the job that seperates you from the rest."
For the last two years I've been doing a double act as Project Manager and punch list guy. I love solving problems but the punch list stuff does get very old sometimes.
It's not exactly the most creative thing to be doing.
[email protected]
Justin,
I started my business as a half-time teacher and half-time carpenter...as you might well understand...they were both close to full-time jobs.
My problem was that the school could not let me work 2 or three full days each week. Each half-day of carpentry involved the same amount of commuting time, set up and clean up, as full-time...then if I had to run to the hardware store...I got nothing done.
Anyways, the last two weeks I trimmed just three rooms, but it involved a bunch of crazy detail stuff that was very time intensive. It took longer than I thought...and I thought it would take a long time.
I estimate that I installed over 500 pieces of trim on that job (each column was 28 pieces). The pics have been posted before, so you may have seen them:
"...who else is in the last stages of a job that they can't wait to get out of!?"
I can't wait until you come over and finish my basement. You told us two weeks!!
"I never met a man who didn't owe somebody something."
How much time you got? I could go on and on about the kitchen I have going on, I was ready to be done a month ago.
One thing after another, the HO's ordered the cabinets all on their own, well they ordered half a kitchen. Now the extra pieces are costing them an arm and a leg. We have to wait for them to get shipped from Kentucky too.
THen the flooring guys they hired, 3 times on the hardwood and I think they are going to make the flooring guy try again. He couldn't a pair of undershorts right from the work I have seen.
The granite fabricators they hired, cut the wrong sink into a large slab, the sink wouldn't even fit in the sink base. THeir templates weren't followed, so they superglued pieces in where slabs butt into walls.
The plasterers screwed up an entire ceiling, now that I have crown moulding on the tops of the cabinets I'm not sure how they are going to fix it.
The HO didn't want nails in the crown.
Flat ceiling turned into a cathedral, added a few extra days from the original schedule.
They keep paying me, so all is well on that front, but I'll be glad when I can walk away from that one.
Woods favorite carpenter
I know the feeling well..
My own solution arrived at after years of struggle is to hire somebody to come help for the last few days.
Fresh blood and eager attitude, hand them the jobs I keep avoiding but they can handle.
Makes it a lot easier..
I started a simple bedroom do over last week. Tis job was to be simple just seal the wallpaper, remove the popcorn ceiling, gut the masterbath and prep for the tilers.
But nothing is simple. The wall paper won't seal and when we started to remove it while it's coming off easy there is 9 layers over sad conditioned plaster walls. So were going to rerock the walls.
The popcorn ceiling turns out to be over acoustic old 12"x24" tiles and is disintegrating. so were going to rerock the ceilings.
While demoing the tub we found none of the pvc is glued, just stuck together with good old friction, called a plumber.
Had to tear out the masterbath wall at the vanity found a lot of bare wiring, called an electrician.
This two week job with a $9500 budget doesn't seem to have an end in site for time or money.
Client is very happy they called me but this is going to throw my other jobs a bit.
At least it's cost plus I guess.
About three months ago I started a remodel on a rental. It's a early 1900's foursquare. Told my helper we were going to change 2 carpets and hit it with a quick paint job.
Wound up custom making moldings for about a dozen door capitals, doing other trim work, rebuilding or replacing windows, moving bathroom door, new wooden back door, retiling to adapt to new door, changing kitchen cabinets, building cabinets, paint, spackle, get tired of waiting for electricians, bust holes in painted walls, respackle, repaint, etc. Oh yeah, got around to doing the siding job, rather most of it.
The other 5% is putting in the 2 carpets, new storm windows, finish siding the dormer on the roof, wrap the soffit and fascia and paint/stain 2 decks and a porch. Then I have to do the first floor, but that's occupied. I finally pulled the trailer out last week just so to change the view. I'll go back when it warms up a little and when I can bear to look at it again.
Like others said, getting help may be a big bonus. I know a lot of projects would be delayed if it was up to me. I walk in and my assistant has already started it. No going back...
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
This is a good strategy. A few years ago we had a whole house renovation which ended up with a 3 page architect generated punch list. Considering that the job description was 1 page plus drawings, it obviously included many questionable items.
My brother. who had been running the job, wrote an angry letter disputing practically the entire list. Before sending it he showed it to me. I told him that if he tore up the letter I would take care of the list for him. A day and a half later of fairly easy work had the job completed and the owner happy. All it took was some fresh blood. At that stage of the job it is all about attitude.
I wish you were my brother.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I've heard of larger companies that have a punch list crew. They come in at the end of the job and make everything perfect. The logic is sometimes after a log job the great guys a client might have are just tired and have lost objectivity to there own work. These fresh faces I've heard might show up all wearing the same t-shirts proclaiming there hero status.
There not meant to be a negative to the current crew but a positive like the cavalry coming. I might if I had several crews working, give each group a chance to trade places for each other that way there would be know us and them attitude develop.
<< All it took was some fresh blood. At that stage of the job it is all about attitude >>
You are 100% correct. It's the worn down feeling that makes that last 5% such a struggle.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
Hoo boy,
I'm in the second week of a 3 week job that I think, in all reality, will take 6 weeks off my life!
Some times you don't know what you're in for and it's slow going until you wrap your brain around what needs done to make headway and get finished.
When I started out, many wise const. tradespeople told me to specialize. I can really see the wisdom of this advice, in how much more efficient you can be to do one type of work every day. But for the reason in your post, every job will end at some point! And then i get to do something NEW!
Press on buddy. It has to end sometime! 97% done might just be the margin of error for 'completion.'
Or what's it called? 'substantially complete?' in the contract.
Just finishing up a job that never ends - I would go into a lengthy explanation, but its really too painful to talk about at this moment. A 20 K job I'm hoping like heck I can finish without costing me out of my pocket, if I go work for free for a few days. A painful learning experience.
Meanwhile, thankful that I picked up two good remodel jobs which will should bail me out, but having a hard time working my two good jobs, and finding the energy to get out and finish the job from hell for free.
Please don't ask.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
<< A 20 K job I'm hoping like heck I can finish without costing me out of my pocket >>
...now you're talking my language. I'm switching to Time & Materials and smaller jobs that I can crank out. I make more money, and my stress level plummets. Life will be good again by the end of Feb!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
>Please don't ask.
Now that's a silly request to make here. Of course we want to hear all about your misery and (hopefully) humiliation.
What else are we here for?
Of course! Next I'll start a thread about my credit card debt too!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
So...ah...what's goin' on?
Working for free just to break even?
be eeks, sufferin' succotash and holy mergatoid
I'm a fool to do your dirty work...Who can do the job for free
Edited 1/30/2008 2:08 pm ET by rez
Hate to post my misery here, since I'm sure to be reminded I have no one to blame but myself. OK, here, in retrospect, are my bads:
I had some money problems right when this job started, as a result of an unforeseen cancellation of 5 jobs, largely related to fallout from the sub-prime crash.
Early on ran into extras and cost overruns while roughing-in, but still had enough cushion in my bid to cover it - so I thought, and didn't charge all the extras I could (and should) have, thinking I could absorb it. What I found out is that if you're too generous early on, you can't go back later and take it back.
homeowner, who is actually a nice guy, has been a bit of a pain - two emails and three phone calls a day, nit picking, "my son in law who knows all about construction came by and left you a two page punchlist". Again, rather than argue, I've just been doing a lot of punchlist stuff that really wasn't part of my bid. (the homeowner is a friend of a friend, so I felt obligated to keep the peace at all costs) - I know, my bad.
In the middle of the project, HO added a heater/ ac install, which my sub bid, but didn't enumerate all the extras it would create for me. So I took a hit on the extra repairs for holes in the walls, modifications to the closet where he mounted his heater, soffits for ductwork, etc.
Then I had some business issues that tied me up for several weeks, and I wasn't physically on the job as much as usual. My regularly reliable crew just fell apart when I wasn't there to babysit, took too long, did stupid stuff (paint a wall that wasn't even mud & taped, etc.).
Then I had a relatively new guy out there by himself for several weeks. Once he was on his own, he slowed way down. I felt sorry for him, because he ran into some terrible health problems, and his granddaughter has cancer and he has to drive her to L.A., and so he's always sick, and always burned out from the long drive back and forth, and his daughter lives with him and has family problems, and yadyadyada... So I let him stay on and finish up the job until there just was no money left in an already lean budget. I just found out (from HO) that he's been on vicodin the whole time.
Pretty much my bad all the way around, (I know, so you don't have to remind me), and I've let Mr. Sick & Slow go, and I'm on my jobs doing them myself with an occasional helper as needed, playing catchup. These are two pretty decent remodels, they were bid right, and if they're done right, should be profitable enough to get me out of the hole.
But that last 5%, oh man, someone come bail me out!!
View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Edited 1/31/2008 9:43 am by Huck
dang that's rough.
(paint a wall that wasn't even mud & taped, etc.).
shoot huck, even I know better than that. Iffin you weren't so far away I'd come work for ya.
be I heard the sun shines in Bakersfield
Peaceful,easy feelin'.
After three decades in the biz, I probably have some 5% stories too but I've repressed them.One of the keys to eliminating the 5% blues in framing is to do each small step thoroughly. Don't leave 5%, 10% or even 1%. Sometimes that means that it appears everyone is working at a snails pace but its really the story about the tortoise and the hare. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I couldn't agree more Jim, I hardly leave anything undone when we are framing.
A punchlist is something that I don't look forward to, so I finish each step before we move onto the next.
Even if that means I am nailing hangers up or whatever speeds the snails pace. Woods favorite carpenter
I posted this in the "How do you know if you are Slow" thread (and it fits with what you and Blue are saying here):--"Try to keep your name off the punchlist entirely.Do your work like you never want to go back! (no call backs)--so if you do go back it is to do more paying work, not to fix something.Find sneaky ways to look faster than you are:Do the less obvious or hidden work first, so when it looks like you are done...you really are (rather than spending hours or days "dinking around" when people think you should already be done)."
I used to frame, and the 5% would kill me then - it usually wasn't our fault, but subs would come in behind us, and tear up our work. Then there would be changes, again not our fault. And an occasional simpson bracket or hd or piece of shear panel we missed, or more likely, wasn't on the plans but the inspector wanted it anyway. And the a$$hole superintendents would hold up our pay until we did this stuff, and by then we were starving, so we just did it.
Now that I'm back into remodeling, the lists are more complex, again most of its not our fault, but sometimes its easier to eat it and just do the stuff rather than fight with homeowners over stuff they don't even understand. I try to keep a cushion in each bid for that stuff, but sometimes it just gets away from ya'!View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Remodeling seems to one of those jobs that lends itself to moving onto a new phase while leaving a list of items to be done later. Realistically, you can't sit on a stool waiting for some paint to dry without starting something else. So, the list grows. If I was a remodeler, I'd attempt to stay on top of that list while the main job was in progress. Framing is a different beast and most framing bosses seem to fall into two categories: those that do everything as they go and those that leave everything for later. I started with a guy that raced to the roof and left two weeks of some of the hardest cleanup work. I learned a lot about what the proper order to do things because I was one of those guys that could do a decent job while facing two weeks of h e l l. Most younger framers think that putting on the show and getting the frame going up fast is best. I disagree. I like to approach the entire project from "let's make it easy on ourselves" perspective and slow it down in the early stages while I plan my way through every phase of the job in a reverse engineered method. That might mean that I "waste" half a day early in the game and often seem to stall in the middle game. I usually come out ahead in the end game though, so the method justifys the means. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
we always had enough people to drop some back to finish up the small, left out stuff while we race to the top. Unfortunatly I was that guy that got dropted back because of my fix things once attitude.
I find that to be an acceptable solution because often there are things that make sense to do after another phase has been competed. For instance, the braces can be stripped after the second floor deck is layed. Dropping you back also makes good sense because your talent seems to be exactly what is needed for that task. I don't understand why you wouldn't like that job. A well rounded crew usually has one or two guys like that.One thing I wouldn't like about it would be if the guys knew I was going to be the finish guy and they left stuff that should have been done, undone. I'd have something to say about that and if they didn't adjust their thinking on the next similar situation, they'd be coming down to fix it themselves. I never was real good at tolerating things being 90% done when 100% was the smarter and sensible thing to do. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
my boss liked to have an old bastard like me around to clean up that last 5%. He found it payed off to have just one guy go do the last 5%. he took the other guys ahead to the new stuff. It tended to reduce the strain on him. the moral of the story is find an old bastard to finish it up.
"grumpy old bastard" if he isn't grumpy they will leave stuff out on purpose.
I think I'm going to be starting one of those, at my parents' place. They want their entire master bedroom suite re-done: turn the vaulted ceiling into a barrel arch, replace all the paint-grade trim with stain-grade, complete bathroom re-do, fancy-arse double vanity with a corain top, laying hardwood flooring, heated tile floor, etc.
They're my folks, so I'm sure it'll have a happy ending, but still, it'll be stretching me in a few areas.