*
I have asked my fellow construction brothers “what advice would you give your own child, if they asked whether or not they should become a construction worker or a college educated “professional””. Would you steer them toward or away from construction? Why?
Terry
Prescriptive codes don't address the connection at less common angles, so base the connection off more typical ones using bolts, structural screws, blocking, and steel tension ties.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
Get the education. Most of my customers are college grads and have lots of money to pay someone else to do the work, and still play.
*"It's amazing that many of the brightest college graduates want to work for college drop outs. Ted Turner of Turner Broadcasting, Bill Gates of Microsoft, Richard Branson of Virgin Inc, Michael Dell of Dell computers."Robert Kiyosaki
*I guess I'd prefer that my 2 boys learned enough to know what they're doing with most home projects. Maybe have some summer jobs as construction workers or something. But I'd rather have them work in some sort of professional capacity for several reasons. 1. They'll make more money. I don't really look for that to change. 2. A guy who knows how to do the job will make a lot better office worker. ie: I think I'm a better truss designer because I've had experience installing trusses, building houses, etc. What looks good on paper has to work well in the field. 3. They're more likely to get through life with both eyes and all their fingers.
*I'm going to school to get a degree in business and plan on working as a carpenter when I'm finished. Sometimes I think I'm crazy...
*If construction is in your blood......you gotta do it. I have always loved to pound nails....and work outside regardless of the weather.The professional life suits some....but to me the tight white collar would choke the life out of me.Building is a worthy profession in it's own right. I think the "working with your hands makes you lesser than" attitude in today's world is only an ignorant assumption. Where else can you be as free? and have the opportunities you have in the building trades?
*I'm with you, Jim. I have two college degrees and I love to build. That's my passion. To my son, my sole advice on this is to follow your passion, pursue what you love doing. That's it. -Ken
*I think Ken hit it on the head, do what you love. If you have passion for something do it and you have a better chance at being happy than chasing the dollar.I have a passion for numbers so I work in Corporate Finance, however I love wood. So I am a heavily involved homeowner (not a DIY a DIM "Did It Myself" I actually get things done right....eventually).SJ
*Why can't you have it all?? You can be an educated college graduate, and *own* the construction business and build homes. Education, wealth, and you get to be with construction...all in one.
*I'd tell kids to go with where the money is for the first part of their lives. Do what gives you the most bang for your buck. Then after you've made some outrageous amounts like a lot of younger folks are making, hang up the grind in your mid 30s and then start your own business. You have extra equity and a nice nest egg to use and then you can play at your own business.Mike
*Im trying to teach my boy woodworking. I feel that someone needs both a trade and what ever degree they decide to get. They will always have somethng to fall back on. Remember the early nineties I met electrical engineers working for radio shack. but back then the folks who had money still were remodeling their homes. I have work for bosses who threatened me with my job for making ethical decision that were contrary to wha the boss wanted. My bud who is also a electrical contractor used to look at the guy like he was crazy and stood his ground and tell him " I really dont need this job". the boss had no power over him.
*How many here made a conscious choice to pursue a trade rather than a "profession"? How many can recall making a decision on the matter? When I was a high school senior my rich uncle came to visit. I guess I must have been more excited about my summer job working for a builder than going off to college. He ended up offering me a healthy college subsidy, arguing that I would eventually be glad I had an education, thus saving myself from a life of manual labor. Well, I spent his money, earned a degree and.... became a carpenter. But I don't guess it could have happened any other way!
*Im raising a grandson. If I hold up he will learn what little I know. There will also be money for an education. All I know to do is what I CAN DO. The rest will be up to him, and his abilities. I think its important for him to test the water himself. We have all got to know our limitations. He has got a good brain , so he will have some choices. He is 7 years old, and his name is TJ.
*Both. To be a quality remodeler.....you gotta have both skill and brains. I, too, went thru many years of school....and many jobs in sales wearing a suit....and am most happy making sawdust. In HS... I took all the advanced placement courses...and was even a geek member of the "gifted program"....and my hrad working Dad always said "Use your brain, not you hands"......and he felt that way for years...till he finally saw me become one heck of a good carpenter ...and finally saw me happy.....doing "manual labor"....as he was. Jeff
*it really does get in your blood, doesn't it... steer them towards architecture, then let them make the choice once they graduate. that's what i'm doing with my daughter (applying to UCLA). imagine. more architects with hands on experience.brian
*Brian- Architecture was where I was headed in school until I realized that I'd be sitting at a desk and drafting table (very little CAD back then!). For ME, that wasn't enough of building things with my own hands........But, I would NEVER want to give up my college education. This is just the way it worked for ME. -Ken
*My advice, to my kids, would be to read the i Rich Dad, Poor Dadseries, especially i The Cashflow Quadrant.After that, follow your heart.blue
*If we knew then what we know now, we might make a lot of different decisions. Fortunately for our children, they will have to make their own decisions. It certainly is a lot more fun that way. Maybe some of them will make the decisions that we made and be as fulfilled as we are. I know I would not trade places with any of my college roommates, though most of them make a lot more money than I do.
*Being happy, even ecstatic with what we do for a living is only a part of the "life" equation. What good is that feeling if it's constantly interrupted by being broke, divorced, lonely, way to many hours, etc.It's only part of the puzzle of total contentment and happiness. Many others have ten fold our incomes yet never seem to be able to grasp that golden ring. Perhaps we are just a few of those who instead of "valuing" expensive toys and the material things that lots of money can buy, we enjoy a sense of being serene in living our lives one day at a Time. I know that for myself, exceptional friends, both in person and here, a great family, terrific grand kids, financial stability and finally, having one hell of a ball the way I bring home the bacon.It's nice when all of the pieces complete the puzzle, but that can only occur if we control our own destiny accepting both the tears and the laughs.Regardless of who the next generation of construction workers are, seeking true happiness within should be their priority #1. And that starts with starting one's own path instead of trying to satisfy the desires of others, whether the "others" is family, society or peers.To thine own self be true.
*Right on Sonny!I think money is a misunderstood issue with the trades... many "white collar professionals" make surprisingly little, especially when you factor in the unpaid overtime and the getting screwed by the corporation factor. If I have kids someday, I would tell them to do what makes them happy. In my opinion, if you can't get out of bed excited about the day, you're in the wrong business...I worked through college doing remodeling and property maintenance work. Now I work for Arthur Andersen, so if/when my job evaporates, I could very possibly return to the trades. The whole Enron disaster has been a first-class lesson in always having another option. Having a trade to fall back on, if that's your choice, could mean keeping your house when you get laid off..
*My advice is get them young and train them. Carpentry is about experience, when they get ambitous they can do schooling in business skills to start their own business.
*You can't start them young, there are labor laws against anyone under 16 on a construction site. Does this make sense? I understand as well as anyone how dangerous a job site is, I grew up on them. Is there something lost starting after 16?Sonny: That was a good post.I just feel there are societal pressures against raising construction workers. Even other tradesmen seem to be prouder of their "professional" offspring. Has this always been the case? Certainly in my lifetime it has.Terry
*Terry, I think there are social pressures against raising kids to do manual labor. And its not against doing the labor itself but what it has become. Construction worker has become synonimous with drunkard, slacker, illiterate, cat-caller, etc. The idea of learning and possessing a skilled trade in the US is gone. Granted there are many fine folks who still do this (many of which post here) but I think by and large, the general population's assumption of someone who does manual labor is that they can't do anything else and they are doing it out of necessity and not by choice. I think if you had to have some formal training or number of years work experience to be called a "carpenter" or tradesman it would generate more respect but when anyone with a hammer and pickup can be in business, its hurts all the others involved. It would be hard to fake being a pharmicist, attorney or fiefighter but guys fake being construction workers on a daily basis. Just look at some of the quality of the work you see around you and tell me this isn't so.Mike
*And it's going to get worse, I think, but hope I'm wrong. Before it was the "dumb" (meaning typical) factory worker. Now that most of them live in other countries because nearly all manufacturing is there , the only major industry left is service, of which construction happens to be the biggest.So who is left for these parents to say to their kids: "You want to end up being like one of them?"Us!Maybe we should all start listening to classical music in our radios on the job.Nah.
*Sonny- Mozart wouldn't hurt you, pal! :o) -Ken
*Nobody cut their hand off listening to Mozart!This has been a great discussion...I think there are two different set of "workers" we can talk about here and their futures are very different.On the one hand, we have a standard construction worker. Hard work for 8 hours, be it on a roofing crew, a concrete crew, a framing crew. The word "crew" being the identifier. We, as a society, will always need a large labor pool of "crews" that will errect our designs. And since we plan to tighten immigration law even further, finding entry level people IS getting tougher. The answer appears to rely on design, be it good or bad. Design more modular homes, were they can be enginneered in the factory rather in the field. Your left with an assembly "crew" on the site that is headed up by one guy. Problem solved.Now were I strongly disagree with both Michael and Sonny is the idea that being a skilled tradesman at the top of your game is somehow viewed as less than an ideal way to garner both respect and wealth.As time has gone by, and the "pool" of highly skilled tradespeople shrinks, I can't beleive what a top drawer finish carpenter or a roof stick framer can command. And not only money.At no other time in our history can a carpenter earn enough money to buy two houses, two cars and send his kids to college.I've had white collar worker after another express real regret that they their followed their fathers' advice and got a gut-building career instead of becoming an electrician, a plumber or a carpenter.And I think it will only get better for the highly skilled ones before it gets worse.And for my sake, let's not let this attitude get around. I'm having fun making money, choosing my next employer and getting ready for my second vacation this year....Key Largo!
*Personally, I'll take Mozart, Chopin, and good old Cole Porter and Miles Davis that some else commented about.I think the attitude I was commenting about is for a typical "employee". The public attitude toward owners is much different, except, I’ve noticed, for self-employed plumbers.And unfortunately, regardless of the income of any of us, were are "generally", still carpenters, painters, roofers, etc. Admittedly it's also up to the personality of the tradesman or owner as to how we are received and regarded. Another reason why I still use white shirts with button down collars while working. At $13 each at another big box, Wal-mart, I can afford to replace them every 3 months or so.Instead of contributing to an “industry” image, I represent an anomaly.
*Mark, Well, from your standpoint and your current status in the field, I can appreciate your stand and viewpoint. You've made it successfully and you're in a position that you both enjoy and have made money at. My view is exactly opposite. I've struggled in this business and the mere thought of manual labor in the 98 degree temps and 95% humidity of Florida is not worth it anymore. No matter how good you are or how much demand there is for you, its still manual labor. Yeah, I've had white collar clients also comment to me how they wish they had done something like what I was doing. But this is usually after I'm putting the final touches on a mantle or putting up some crown moulding. NO ONE has ever wished they were me after a 11 hour day of setting trusses and my back and shoulders are the nice dark tan of oh say, a catcher's mit. And either way, when these fellows say this, they then get into their nice car and ride in the AC back to their office after their hour-long business lunch at Applebees or Chilis. And all the while, they're about my age and making at least twice what I am for sitting at a computer. So in a nutshell, if you can make it in this biz and you like it, well God Bless Ya, more power to you. Sonny is a perfect example of this. Hes doing quite well at it and beyond a shadow of a doubt, you can tell he loves it immensely. I unfortunately never achieved any financial freedoms in it and thats why I hung it up.Mike
Yes Michael, either way it does just come down to manual labor. I'm sorry to hear that you have never acheived the financial rewards other's here espouse. I just wonder if money would have made up for the aches and pains you described. Money is a great sedative but like any other it only hides the symptoms. I, like you, feel these aches, but I relish the work and the aches let me know I'm alive. I wouldn't trade places with any one in any profession for money or any other motivator. Yes I make a great living, but a construction worker is what I am, money or not. Each jobs has it's negative symptoms. I chose construction with it's weather, aches and possible low public opinion.
I know from your past post that you enjoy building things, I hope one day you find the sucess you desire.
Terry
If I had children I would encourage them to do what they love or want to do. Yet I would insist they go for continuing education. I have a college degree in education--never taught a day of school in my life, except on the jobsite I guess to young guys and gals. But I always wanted to be a carpenter like my Grandad.
This business takes a toll on the ol' body(after 30+yrs I feel it) . I love building something and personally I get tremendous satisfaction from seeing a project at it's finish.
Trade skills are slowly being fazed out of high school curriculums around the country and that is a sad state of affairs.
As a few other posts stated the construction worker is "labeled". And the younger generation of workers that drift into this field are poorly educated, and lack (IMO) a "work ethic" they want the "big" bucks but aren't willing to learn the job. Don't get me wrong here not all are that way. And they add to that "labeled" image many have of the trade industry.
Gary
Get the education. Most of my clients are college grads and spend lots of money to pay someone else to do the paintings and, nonetheless, play.