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Discussion Forum

The Real Deal with PT Lumber?

billd60 | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 6, 2006 09:12am

I used to build decks as a summer job while in college and I felt comfortable with my knowledge of PT products and their fastening back then.  Now I’m about to frame a new porch on my new house and am thoroughly confused, or at least unsure.  

1.  Can joist hangers be used with PT lumber any more?  If so, is direct contact permitted?

2.  When I fasten porch flooring, are SS fasteners required since they will be going into the PT framing?

3.  Are SS fasteners required as the product of choice with this new PT stuff?  What other correct options exist for bolting and nailing/screwing?

 

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Replies

  1. User avater
    NickNukeEm | Oct 06, 2006 09:27pm | #1

    Welcome back to doing what God intended man to do, work with his hands.

    a.  Yes and no.  Simpson makes stainless steel hangers (Order from McFeeleys) that can be used in direct contact with the PT stuff.  As an alternative,  Simpson also makes Z-Max hardware which is galvanized and rated for use on PT.  If going that route, I would wrap the joist ends with vycore prior to setting the lumber in the saddle.  Personally, I used nothing but stainless on PT whenever I can find the correct hardware.

    b.  Yes and no.  SS is the first choice, however, if using nails, you can use hot dipped galvanized.  There are also numerous screws for the composite decking which 'shoul' be safe to use.  I prefer again to just be safe and use SS.

    c.  Stainless (in the event you didn't get the hint in a. and b. above) is the product of choice for PT, followed by hot dipped galvanized, however, I build for clients and pass the cost along, as well as the projected longevity and quality that SS brings.  On a budget and for a personal project, you can always find ways to ensure your project will last without using the top line hardware.  But for a few dollars more and a good night's sleep, you might as well use SS.

    Good luck, and welcome back to the neighborhood.

     

    "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."  Invictus, by Henley.

    1. billd60 | Oct 06, 2006 10:57pm | #4

      Thanks.  It seems you mystically read between the lines.  After 20 years in public education, I am returnig to the building industry and building our dream home.  I appreciate the welcome back and the insight on the SS path to follow.

      1. mikeingp | Oct 06, 2006 11:32pm | #5

        What about DeckMate screws? They claim to "outlast" everything, and they are cheaper than stainless screws.

        1. rez | Oct 06, 2006 11:52pm | #6

          Yep, they are cheap alright, economically feasible too.

          Local yard here on occasion runs a sale on them at $2 a one lb. box. 1 1/4" on thru 3 1/2".

          I was questioning their strength as well as the validity of their advertised use in ACQ,

          till last night when I was driving a 2 1/2" into a 1/2"plywood over a 1 1/2" pine stud on flat over a stud with an impact driver and the bosch titanium tip broke instead of the screwhead snapping off. 

          be buying 10 boxes of each size for guaranteed no bleed sheetrock in moisture areas. Roar! 

          "When we build, let us think that we build forever.  Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John RuskinAndrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generationsWe can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

          1. User avater
            RRooster | Oct 07, 2006 07:43am | #7

            You can buy 25 lb. boxes of deckmate at HD for about $75. 

            http://grungefm.com

             

          2. BillBrennen | Oct 07, 2006 09:43am | #9

            That's $3 a pound. Rez's sale is $2 a pound.Bill

          3. BillBrennen | Oct 07, 2006 09:40am | #8

            Rez, I agree about the Deckmate screws. They are very strong. Paul CP, the guy who started the nails vs screws thread, did a bunch of torture tests and the Deckmates came out very strong for him, too. I keep Deckmates in my kit because I like them better than the others I've tried. (Even though I don't need the colors.)As to corrosion, I have removed some Deckmates exposed to weather for a few years and the threads were fine. The heads rust first because the driver breaks through the coating.I use #10 stainless screws on things that have to last long and be removable, like my ipe deck boards.The ACQ corrosion issues are huge, and forcing us all to rethink details that worked fine with CCA. It would be good to see some data for corrosion in ACQ vs CCA vs untreated fir and redwood, under several sets of in-service conditions.Are interior walls framed with PT bottom plates rusting out the brite nails used to attach the studs if the walls stay dry? Galvanized? Does anybody really know for sure?Bill

          4. JTC1 | Oct 07, 2006 02:33pm | #10

            Bottom plate nails rusting?  Mine aren't since I was paranoid enough to stop using brights and switched to SS.  Bought one case SS and just use them for this application.

            Jim

            Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

          5. sledgehammer | Oct 07, 2006 05:17pm | #11

            Are interior walls framed with PT bottom plates rusting out the brite nails used to attach the studs if the walls stay dry? Galvanized? Does anybody really know for sure?

             

            I trimmed out a new house last year. While doing the basement there were a couple of door opening roughed too small. Had to remove a jack and section of bottom plate... Nails were almost rusted through, but what do you expect for 1.5 million ;-)

          6. BillBrennen | Oct 07, 2006 06:52pm | #12

            Thank you both. This confirms my worst fears. For every framer who uses resistant nails in the plate, there are 10 who won't, and visual inspection cannot detect it if bottom-nailed.Bill

          7. JTC1 | Oct 07, 2006 08:18pm | #14

            Visual inspection cannot find them but a strong enough magnet will.  Have a doughnut shaped magnet that will stick to wood in general vicinity of any steel nail.  Only remedy I can think of would be to toe nail with SS - palm nailer would work - course there is that pesky access problem to deal with.........

            Easier, faster, cheaper just to do it right in the first place after all this is the Fine Homebuilding web site right?

            Jim

            Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light. 

          8. rez | Oct 07, 2006 06:58pm | #13

            and the house had been up what, a year?

             

            "When we build, let us think that we build forever.  Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

          9. sledgehammer | Oct 07, 2006 10:29pm | #15

            7 months.

             

            I'd also suspect the joists nailed to the sill plates have similar issues

            Edited 10/7/2006 3:31 pm ET by sledgehammer

  2. jpeeks | Oct 06, 2006 09:37pm | #2

    They say ss is the best to use but you can also use galvanized nails and hangers.SS can get expensive.If you go with ss you can get joist hangers that are ss. 

  3. fairban9 | Oct 06, 2006 09:46pm | #3

    I'm personally all in favor of S.S.  Supposedly even with the z-max hangers there's the possibility of corrosion over time.  Wrapping it helps but can you wrap everything - including the nails going into the wood?  Not so much.

    The other thing to make sure of is that you don't mix and match stainless steel with the z-max galvanizing (or any galvinizing).  It's not recommended.

  4. User avater
    Matt | Oct 08, 2006 01:10am | #16

    If you use galvanized fasteners and hangers make sure they are hot dipped galvanized.    No one will argue that SS isn't better, but you gotta factor in the cost...

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