Take a look at this detail, attached. We’ll be getting to this shortly, and I want some thoughts on it from you.
We’ve a two-ply fascia, made with a 5/4 board and 1x accent. There is a lot of footage, and we want to use 5/4 x 6, rather than a ripped 5/4 x 8. Thus the void and not-so-solid support for the roof decking edge.
Any issues here that are stoppers?
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
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Replies
What is "WRC"? I'd use Azek or something similar for that 1x piece that is just below the drip edge. Are there going to be gutters? Just wondering why you want to rip that piece. Also, why not just use full width 1x8 fascia material and I think ripping the subfascia is definitely a waste of time. All this ripping... you are making it hard on yourself. Not sure I see the point in that.
We normally just use 2x6 subfascia, 1x8 fascia, and cellular PVC plastic 1x4 for shingle mold or pvc regular shingle mold. Why do you want to use the 5/4 for fasica? Just to get a thicker look at the fasia edge?
Edited 7/9/2005 9:29 am ET by Matt
Matt,"WRC" is probably "Western Red Cedar".Joe Carola
"weally rough cedar?"If 'tis to be,'twil be done by me."
Ima,
I would just drill a 1/2" vent hole in each rafter bay.
View Image
SamT
cutting that angle is going to get old real fast!
That void is fine..as long as it is solid where the drip edge nails are going.
We install the copper gutterliners on some really old wood...and a bouncy spot where the drip edge nails go, can really bash some fingers..we use 1" copper nails for that.
You do know how to start a roofing nail I hope..ya don't hold it with your pinch type grip, flat twix the I and M and pads face UP.
Just in case..LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
What are dreadlocks made from?
Most of my roofers are driven by this View Image
But my dad taught me the fingerprints-up way to drive 'em by hand when I was a teenager.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Yeah...but for the few nails we drive on Cu roofs, it is faster to hand nail.
A sq of Standing seam might have only 40 or 50 nails, hardly worth dragging a gun up in addition to everything else.
I heep fergetting people still use shingles (G). Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
What are dreadlocks made from?
> A sq of Standing seam might have only 40 or 50 nails,
Mine's pretty much done now except for the ridges. In the standing seams, not counting valleys, gutters, fascia, etc., I figure I used 180 nails/90 cleats per square. The cleats are just under a foot apart, the pan pitch is 14 5/8".
-- J.S.
I aim for about 16-20" I guess. Under a foot seems a bit excesssive IMO. As long as it stays on.
You cleat the overlaps too? ( we do) and our pans are 10'..so 2 on the lap, 6 on the edge is 8..5 pans per sq. is 40 nails ( in theory). Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
What are dreadlocks made from?
I aim for about 16-20" I guess.
You need to aim for 16" OC or less especially on OSB.
Didn't we just learn that lesson?
5 pans = slightly less than a sq. 8 side clips, 2 seam clips = 10 per pan x 5 pans = 50 clips minimum per sq. unless that pan is going into the ridge or a wall.I'm not green anymore.
Well yeah..but we have not put any on since..LOL . We will. BTW them screws worked real well.
(The trailer is happy, almost done with the racks. we need some more parts.) Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
What are dreadlocks made from?
> You cleat the overlaps too?
My roof's small enough to not have overlaps. It's nearly done now, and I'm finally getting some of the pictures together.
-- J.S.
I'm finally getting some of the pictures together.
yeah, yeah , yeah.....................................
I'm not green anymore.
I just heard yesterday we are starting a 70 sq. Standing seam job next week....12/12. Might be a long week. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Make a sweet noise, it might be the last sound you hear
The void is as common as cheese and crackers. no problem there. The only beveled rip I make is the 1x2 shingle edge ujnder the metal drip, 2x6 will work for subfascia
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Piffin,Metal Drip Edge? What's that? Is that like strapping because we don't use that either.............;-)Joe Carola
You're really in trouble now!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Should I STRAP myself in..........;-)Joe Carola
Only if yer a drip who's lost his edge.
SamT
Good one Sam.....................;-)Joe Carola
So here are the two variations. See the pics. The one on the left is my earlier hallucination, with the ripped 2x8 subfascia, and the shingle band not beveled, but ripped (split) out of a 1x6 to yield a heavy-looking 2-5/8".
This roof has 550 lf of edge, and I figure the costs per lineal foot as, 2x8 at $0.70, rip labor at $0.20, half of a WRC 1x6 at $1.19, and ripping again at $0.15 (faster than 2x ripping.)
Extending it all out, the partial cost for the variation in the left pic is $1,232. "Partial" means the part we are doing different schemes on.
On the right is your variation. The subfascia is a plain (not bevel-ripped) 2x6, and the shingle band is now bevel-ripped out of a 1x4. The plf costs are $0.55 for the 2x6, $1.41 for the shingle band, plus another $0.15 for the ripping of the WRC to yield the bevel at the top.
Your suggested method has a cost of $1,161. If I settle for a narrower shingle band by ripping two from a 1x6, I save another $121.
The thing I lose, and it may or may not be a minor thing, is the flush condition my bottom edge of subfascia has with the 2x4 "soffit joist" that will be there. That flush surface gives me a little extra nailing for the 1x soffit edge that will capture my continuous strip vent.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Gene,No gutters?Joe Carola
The house has 42 inch overhangs all around, with everything sloping away nicely, and soil conditions that are such that even with the ridiculous rains we've been having these past eight weeks, everything dries up immediately when the rains stop.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
"2x4 soffit joist" = outlooker, lookout or outrigger
Matt
The soffit is finished with painted cedar 1x4 e&cb, and a continuous wall cleat of 2x4 has 2x4 "soffit joists" toenailed to it on 2' centers, the "joists" reaching out to sister onto the truss tails and get facenailed through the 2x6 subfascia. There is about 12,000 lf of beaded 1x4 to apply.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I vote for your 2nd detail (the one on the right) in the last pic you posted. I now see the advantage to ripping the shingle mold board.
That is a BOATLOAD of 1x4 :-)Matt
Without a port here, I guess we'll just have to truck it!Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
This sounds like a high $ house you are building...
Matt
gene.. we use a lot of soffit.... my favorite is Alcoa Probead.. either vented or non-vented.. the vents are concealed in the bead slits
here's a pic with a 2x4 subfascia... a 1x8 Azek fascia... 2" shadow board..
View Image
the soffit is applied to furring nailed to the soffit framing.. so 3.5" sub-fascia...+ 3/4 " furring.. + 5/8 " colonial j-mould ( 3/8" Probead soffit )
still leaves a 3/4 reveal..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 7/11/2005 8:33 pm ET by Mike Smith
here's what the finished job looks likeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Are you the one in the Grateful Dead shirt?!
no... that's the owner ... and Roy on the ladder...
i'm running the camera, remember ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good answer. I was gonna have to wonder if there was an M.F. Smith Associates logo on the front of that shirt, since I know you're big on branding.
No reason to lose that bottom flush fit. Lower the sub-fascia to be flush. You are still trying to avoid voids at top by pulling it up. Doesn't need to be up there and is hard to get right up there.
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I was poking it up there so its outboard top edge planed out to the sheathing bottom face. The sheathing has a pretty hefty overhang past the truss tails, and I thought with trusses at 24" centers, we ought to have some edge bearing for the 5/8.
Edge bearing was the thought behind the earlier concept of the 2x8 with its top edge beveled and brought to the bottom plane of sheathing.
But, maybe my beveled shingle band will provide the support I am looking for.
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
The bevel on the shingle band deals with it. The only exception is if you let the sheathing get wet and go crinkle edged first.We dry in the same day or next day after sheathing, then we trim edges over the next week or three. Th e shingle mold banmd can slip right up to the sheathing as long as it is still dry and straight.Alternatively, if there is a reason for doing the trim first, use a straight-edge on top of rafter tail and slip the beveled up to it when instyalling.one reason we might trim first is where it is a tall building - say 2-1/2 stories where we are hurrying to get the top closed in and we are stick framing it. We recebntly had one in winter weather where the sheathing layour left about 14" ripped. so we sheathed from ridge down. Had outriggers from top plate for walk planks, so entire roof was framed and dryed in in two days except for that 14" at bottom. Then we set up staging all around and worked with the weather to finish trims, and add the bottom 14" of sheathing. Bad weather days we could work interior walls etc.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We discussed this today on site, on the eve of truss and crane arrival in the early morning.
My main man, always looking to take out another nickel of either labor or material, asks, "why even bevel the top of the 1x shingle band piece?"
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I agree with your main man. I wouldn't bevel any of it.
blue
It can be skipped too. But then you need to chaulk a line on the fascia or use a gauge to set the shingle band to, to keep it straight. That is probably the more efficient and neat anyway
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It looks ok to me - how're you going to hang gutter/eavestrough?. If you're in it for the money, why rip the angles? An open joint will resist capillary action (read 'wicking'). and who the heck's gonna look up there. A couple of inches overhang is no prob, either...it's not gonna hang over like a Dali clock.
ciao for niao
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Is there a reason for such a wide exposed shingle band? You're placing a drip edge over the band, which will then be exposed to whatever comes off the roof and turns under at the edge of the drip and it will require maintenance on a continuous basis. As the water turns under the drip it will also turn under that exposed shingle band and flow down the finished fascia, leaving stains and requiring upkeep down the road.
Use a 1x4 ripped down the center on a bevel or just buy a 1x2 and nail it up without the bevel. This will put the band higher than the bottom edge of the drip, keep all the weather off and provide a large gap - 3/4" - between the finished fascia and the drip which will help keep the water off the fasia and provide a better flow into a gutter if you have one planned.