I’m going to upgrade my service panel, and this requires putting the new one in a slightly different position from the old. I was thinking about taking this opportunity to bury my power lines so they don’t drape diagonally across my back yard. I was thinking about basicly moving the utility drop point from my roof to the edge of my yard. The power company has OKed this idea, provided all the other ducks are in a row. I want to pass this in front of you guys to see what you think of this.
Basic side view:
View Image
This is the overhead view of how it would run through the yard:
View Image
There are four 90 degree mandrel bends making for 360 degrees total. Conduit would be 3″ schedual 40 with a schedual 80 coming from the ground up to the weather head. The conduit would be at least 36″ underground, maybe 48″ if I run the low voltage stuff over it.
I was thinking a 6″ steel I beam sunk in the ground, with a concrete base, with the conduit attached to it would be the vertical post. I can’t back a truck up here, but I can get a small excavator in that can dig down 6′ deep.
If the city is nervous about having that long of a run of cable with a non-fused link, I could mount an outdoor box on the post and put in three 200 amp fuses. I routed the conduit in this way so it would be easier to find if needed – like if a pool was going to be dug later or tree planted.
So what do ya think?
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Replies
Well I won't be a whole lot of help, but I had a couple of things to throw in. First is why not just a straight run. Maybe you're trenching it yourself, but I know what my sparky charges per foot for trenching and man I'm all for straight runs.
And here, anyway, maybe we're just lucky, but the local electric service is so in favor of buried lines that if you live in a house with overhead wires and you change the panel out, they'll do the burying for you. They wont just bury it because, you have to be changing the panel and the meter socket, nevertheless, thats a nice bennie.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
LADWP here had us run the conduit out into the parkway and up the side of their pole. It's a lot neater that way, and saves the expense of your new pole. Digging down both sides of the fence and little retaining wall, and punching a pipe thru, isn't all that difficult. The depth you need to go depends on what's adjacent to the pole. It could be as little as 12".
I definitely second the motion on straight runs. It's a whole lot easier to pull, and you use the smallest amount of expensive wire that way.
-- J.S.
Unfortunatly, the pole is not on my property but on the trailer park behind me. I would have to get an easment from them to go under their property for the 4'. If it was an individuals house, it would be simple as talking to a neighbor to sign some paperwork. An exchange of beer might be in order. Dealing with a property company is likely to be a whole can of worms - I envision paying two lawyers to play pingpong with eachother for a couple hours to negotiate my going 4' onto their property line at $400 per hour.
Is it easier than I'm imagining?
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
There is a real good chance, power company already has easement rights.
Start by asking your utility company. LADWP's easements generally run a good 5 feet each side of the centerline of the poles. You gotta run wires somehow, either over or under.
-- J.S.
Just talked to the power company (SoCal Edison). Here is what i found out about burying the cable all the way to their pole:
1. The easement is only for above ground wires. I would have to get the underground easement myself to get access to the pole.
2. I found out that for them to build the conduit up their pole (from where I leave off with the schedual 80 upsweep), then run the cable, it would cost about $2000. The guy I just talked to just did one, and the bill was $1700. This pole would be hard to get to - no truck lift to help out.
3. An overhead run is free, and does not have easement issues.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
One more vote for a straight run to the house. Shorter distance, less voltage drop, easier to install, less money. I also agree with going right to the utility's power pole, assuming they let you do that. If you do need to have your own pole at the edge of the lot, I don't know why you'd need an I-beam set in concrete...just use a wood pole to match what the utility has in place.
I would forget about the 200 A fuses because a utility will
NOT give you access to their unmetered feeders ....
and the city has nothing to say regarding the length,.......which BTW is not that long, unless you start digging up your neighbors yard on the other side of that fence
also, what type wire are you going to pull ?
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
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Edited 9/11/2006 5:31 pm by maddog3
I did mine underground, paid the power company an extra $300 for wire and they trench it and hook to meter. comes in bottom instead of top. so now I have to problem with wind storms, leaky roofs or painting hazards. I think everybody should do it. at the same time I ran conduit for cable tv. so nice and clean, maintance free.
You didn't say where the meter was nor the transfomer.
If the meter is on the house and the transformer is on the pole, I'd suggest talking to the power company about running down the pole and going underground there. Then a straight ditch coming up where the meter is on the house. Of course, you can't do that work yourself cause the line is HOT! The power company would have to do it.
Here, all the transformers are on the ground with an underground line to the house. I did call the power company once telling them that I had to disconnect the meter on the back of the house. The main line from the meter to the breaker box (about 3') was aluminum and was having problems so I changed it to copper. After I finished, the power company came out and re-sealed the meter.
When I did the above, I also ran a new line from the meter to a 150 amp panel in my shop. I put a disconnect for the new line beside the old breaker box. Doing this isolated my shop from the house breaker box which was to small to carry both the house and the shop.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Re: depth --- are you sure that you have to go down 36"?
I did mine years ago, and they just required it be buried a minimum of 18". However, this was NOT for the main service line, just power to my garage.
I rented a trenching machine (which is designed to dig 18-20"), and had the the whole thing done in a day.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Yes, they were very clear on the 36" depth. They also said that if I wanted to bury phone and cable at the same time, there had to be a 12" separation - I could do it in the same trench, but then the electric would be at 48" and the low voltage at 36".
At my dad's old house the requirement was 18", apparently. We found that out when we heard a loud SMACK and the lights flickered. I came outside and found him standing there looking at his shovel with a bewildered expression... as the shovel now had two 1/2" bite marks taken out of it by the arc in the aluminumn wires.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Edited 9/12/2006 5:33 pm ET by xxPaulCPxx
@@ Re: depth --- are you sure that you have to go down 36"?
Project we built in Irvine, CA - they wanted it down 4'.
but code is 3'
You want a hookup? 4'.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
its werid, my power company loves underground, knowing nobody will ever mess with it, no storms can hurt it, maintance free.
@@ Underground
Get it deep enough and it might escape a trencher <g>. Backhoe work better.
FYI - You can tell you're in Newport Beach when the overhead transmisson lines dive underground. No poles. Nice. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
" 78560.14 in reply to 78560.11 @@ Re: depth --- are you sure that you have to go down 36"?Project we built in Irvine, CA - they wanted it down 4'. but code is 3'You want a hookup? 4'."Actually the NEC does not cover this at all. It is on the POCO side and not covered.It is possible that city/state adopted such a rule.But it is probably a POCO rule.
"POCO" ??
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Generic name for Power Company.
Since the service entrance cable is not well "protected" by a breaker, it's wise to make it safer from damage than standard wiring on the downhill side of a breaker panel.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Uhhhhh, yah... that's exactly what my drawing is on the first post of this thread :)
I'm wondering if I can get the underground length or wire from them too, I suppose I can ge it cheaper from them than Home Depot.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I have a couple more thoughts.. you are running the conduit....but the Utility may want large radius bends at the 90's..instead of regular elbows. around here we call the big ones ...."sweeps"also, they might not allow you to own the pole inside your fenceperhaps you should find that out too....and good luck with getting a power company to give you their wire ....even for a $I guess what I'm saying is that they don't have to agree with your plans whatsoever, and you need to contact their Engineering Dept.and discuss it with them.
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
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We have PG&E up here in central ca. and when I questioned them on replacing the feeds so as to put our panel in another locattion, they told me that I would have to pay for the "property taxes"(since they own the wire, not me) on the wire up front for the next 100 years , which is what they figure the life of the wire is. They were figuring around $2000 and that was last year and I would want to know what the cost is now, whether it is aluminum or copper...
the joys of dealing with monopolies huh?
I'm sure you're aware that the wire is Al and most definitely not copper.
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
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Actually, before I posted here I had a couple of the planning engineers (one was a supervisor) out to talk about all the options available. They gave me some really good information about exactly what would be needed, how they would give me a map of how to lay the line - including exactly where the sweeps would be (I always assumed it would be the 24" sweeps). I'm not sure they will still do that if I lay the conduit not from their pole but from my own, but they seemed very willing to work with me. They were game for all my crazy ideas!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
your ideas are not crazy at all.
..you do what you can with what you have..getting the power co. to agree is not always easy ...a Cheescake Factory I worked on supplied their own switchgear
which they claimed was in use around the US and even though the Electrical Inspector had approved the installation...ComEd in Illinois simply refused to connect to it until it was modified....and the gear was in place and wired...ALL the bus detail in the 1000A service had to be discarded and redesigned ..before ComEd would make the final connect.plus,landscaping had been placed around the pad transformer ..to hide it...and the lineman who had to make the finals, simply took a chainsaw to the trees so he could access the doors on the tranny...what a hoot.....
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.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
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Thinking about burying power line
Doing the same, Did not know we had a option of running cable on our own. Duke energy said we will have to do the trenching & conduit ourseles and they will draw the wire for 1022$ if <100'. This was cause of retaining walls ans terrain where a trencher cannot operate. Had it Hand dug for 350$ total - 150 ft.
Any ideas on cable & telephone - rg6 is available in lowes or shuld we run a lead and ask cable guys to do it ( Time warner ?) is there a cost associated with their service as well?
got to burry this today :(
Here in NW Oh.
Cable buried first line 15 yrs ago-their cost-pole to house-350 feet.
Redid with bigger cable 5 yrs ago-same thing.
Phone originally dug 22 yrs ago-their cost-same distance.
The above done with a slit trencher-no digging.
Power co. from road to transformer to meter base-maybe 400.00- 22 yrs ago. In conduit the whole way. We signed an agreement with them a yr b/4 we built-didn't care what route they took, as long as it was underground. Final route taken-about 600 ft from their pole on road to meter. Quite the deal as the first idea they had would have been only a couple hundred feet.
I would talk to the utility and the city/county a little more before you break out the shovel. That pole may already be in an easement. You also have an issue if you want to dig into the utility easement on the street. The service point is usually going to be at your property line and the utility may want to have a junction there. This is a dance that has to be carefully coreographed before the music starts
Service and easment.
You might want to talk to the property management company for the park. They may not be as difficult to deal with as you think. Your utility is already servicing you through their property with the overhead service. An underground easment may be a standard document that the utility can provide.
DANGER! Will Robinson! DANGER!
This is not something to be taken lightly.
Since they're PoCo wires, it's almost a given that only a licensed electrical contractor will be allowed to do this - and with great supervision by the PoCo.
PoCO (POwer COmpany) rules apply. THEY tell you how deep to dig, what pipe to run, and how to fill. I've had them insist I go 5 ft. down (to the TOP of the pipe) and use a specific sand to bed / blanket the pipe. Once done, THEY finish the pipe run up the pole with pipe YOU provide, and THEY pull the wires and connect. The type of wire used is NOT available at the local parts house.
It's certain that this job will require a fair amount of paperwork and plans will need to be approved.
Yep, that's what they said too.
I eventually raised up my power mast to 10' over my roof deck. Now I can run around my yard with a 20' pipe all willy nilly and not ding up my wires!