Replies

1. 
   calvin | Oct 07, 2009 12:48am | #1

   Kevin, if you are right, there's a whole lot of guys that are wrong.

   A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

2. 
   IMERC | Oct 07, 2009 12:53am | #2

   UT-oh!!!!

    

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

   WOW!!! What a Ride!

   
   Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

    

   "Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"

3. 
   Clewless1 | Oct 07, 2009 02:17am | #3

   It may depend on the screw type ... e.g. pan heads are OK and flat heads are not?? Someone will jump in here that knows electrical codes well.

4. 
   ponytl | Oct 07, 2009 02:24am | #4

   we use pan head screws inside metal 4x4 boxes to studs all the time...

   those metal boxes with the brackets cost 50cents more :)
   p

5. 
   bobguindon | Oct 07, 2009 02:30am | #5

   I thought that it was against code to put any screws or nails through the inside of the box except grounding screws.  Am I wrong?

   I believe that the code issue is primarily that a picky inspector might consider that 'modification' an improper use of the box.  In other words, the box is listed to be mounted using the method(s) prescribed by the manufacturer.  Using a mounting method other than this technically invalidates the listing.

   Bob

1. 
   Clewless1 | Oct 07, 2009 03:49pm | #10

   That's probably the key ... the U-L listing is for a specific product and applied in a specific way ... altering that technically voids the U-L listing. I'm guessing this kind of thing routinely happens.

6. 
   Dave45 | Oct 07, 2009 02:31am | #6

   Oh lordy, I hope that isn't a hanging offense!!! - lol

1. 
   Dam_inspector | Oct 07, 2009 02:49am | #7

   It's gotta be a haggling offense.

7. 
   renosteinke | Oct 07, 2009 02:52am | #8

   You would be technically correct, but for one detail: UL has in fact listed boxes for this exact use.

   Let's hop into the 'way back' machine for a moment. In the old days, electrical boxes were commonly mounted by running ling nails through the box, top and bottom. These nails actually passed through the wiring compartment. Some clever soul thought "what if someoone uses screws instead?'

   Screw have threads, and it was felt that these sharp-edged threads might pose a hazard to the wires- so a code rule was added that said 'no screws.'

   The boxes you saw (made by Arlington Industries) do not leave any threads exposed to harm the wires, so they got the approval. Use them without fear.

1. 
   kbd | Oct 07, 2009 03:29pm | #9

   The reason I asked, was that one inspector made me redo a box with a panhead screw holding it to a stud, "unapproved modification". I have been faithful ever since, but the work-arounds are time consuming.  Thanks for the info.  Kevin

1. 
   DanH | Oct 07, 2009 06:56pm | #11

   Sometimes common sense gets trumped by anal retentiveness.
   As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz

1. 
   ErichB | Oct 07, 2009 07:20pm | #12

   I saw something like this on Ask This Old House awhile back, not sure if its the same incident. When I saw it, it was a plastic box. If it had been a metal box, the box's ground would take care of it, but in a plastic box the screw is then an ungrounded bit of metal. Seems a little unlikely that a live wire would both touch the screw and that the screw would touch something else metallic or wet to electrify, oh, say, the wall assembly, but not impossible. How about a drywall screw? Again, unlikely, but it seems like most of the code changes these days are against unlikely events... What do you'll think? Regardless of code, good practice or not?

8. 
   Scott | Oct 07, 2009 09:30pm | #13

   It's done here all the time, especially in the situation you describe.

   It avoids the need to wreck drywall. You use a hacksaw or drywall saw to carefully cut the "wings" off of the plastic single-gang box then remove it. Enlarge the hole in the drywall to accomodate the double box. Cut the wings off the box. Insert in hole and drive a couple of screws through the box to the stud. Voila.

   I've also used this technique when I needed to fish a new wire into an existing box in a finished wall. (Ever tried that? Durn near impossible!!) So I performed a box-ectomy, fished the wire through the hole in the wall, and stuffed all wires into a fresh box. Mount with screws through the side.

   Scott.

   
   

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   Edited 10/7/2009 2:56 pm by Scott