Replies

1. 
   DavidDansky | Jan 18, 2003 06:36am | #1

   Funny thing we were just talking about them today.

   Best thing since Ideal wing nuts.

   I tryed 3 times today to get a GB wire nut on 3 #12s, and got pisssssed, reached back into my pouch and grabed a WING NUT and simple as pie.  The new Ideal Twister wire nuts are good also, same as the wing nut, but harder plastic, and a standard nut driver fits on the end to twist.

   David

   
   

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   Edited 1/17/2003 10:39:53 PM ET by David Dansky

2. 
   4Lorn1 | Jan 18, 2003 07:30am | #2

    Scotchlock IIs. These units have been available for around 10 years. I have used them off and on. Depended on the contractor some use them, others not. I like them.  Reasons:

   The nylon tops are tough and do not seem to split or deteriorate as readily as many cheaper wire nuts. It, and the strength of the spring mounting, also gives me confidence to horse them down without fear of splitting the cap or spinning the spring. A help when making up connections at near the connectors capacity or on vibrating equipment that can, in the long run, loosen connections even if taped.

   The skirts give a very deep pocket that helps eliminate exposed conductors that cause shorts. At the same time being flexible the skirts take up little room in crowded boxes.

   Large ranges for each size nuts allow three colors, sizes, the red/yellow, orange blue cover and blue/grey everything from 2-18s to 2-6s. Other brands make me carry four or five sizes. This is not an issue, most of the time, with new construction but old and repair work can often throw you a curve. Most of the time when you are half an hour away from the truck.

   An aggressive live, free floating, spring grabs quickly and holds well even when combining smaller stranded conductors to large bundles of solids.

   On the down side:

   They are expensive.

   The deep socket made by the skirt makes you grip the conductors farther down than is normal. It can be frustrating to get everything lined up, picture 6 stranded conductors in two sizes where two are short wired and making them up while bending backwards on the top step of a 16' ladder to work on an overhanging soffet box, and find you are 1/4" too far choked up on the bundle for the wire nut to grab.

   The red/yellows are larger than most wire nuts so stuffing that GFI back into a 2" deep box after making up the 9-12s can be more of a trick. The small orange/blue ones work well in these situations but it means you need to carry at least two different sizes.

   Final: While not perfect these wire nuts are good and, at least for the majority of the work I do, are, IMHO, worth the extra cost. They have several good points over many of their competitors. On the other hand I have friends in the trade who swear that Scotchlock Is, the parent of the Scotchlock II, or Ranger brand wire nuts are superior. I have seen the same thing with carpenters and their hammers. There are facts but much of this sort of choice remains subjective. Whatever flies your flag I guess.

1. 
   don26299 | Jan 18, 2003 11:30pm | #3

   4LORN1,

   You are the one I especially wanted to ask about this, but Prospero didn't give me that option in the window.

   Please comment on the fact that the REDYELLOW combination scotchlock doesn't have that lead boot inside like the standard YELLOW, RED, AND GRAY 3M scotchlocks did.  Will that be a problem years down the road?  These REDYELLOWs were CHEAP!  (Q500/33$)

   Fonzie

1. 
   4Lorn1 | Jan 19, 2003 02:13am | #4

   Scotchlock Is had, I understand that they are no longer manufactured or only in smaller lots, a galvanized gripper spring surrounded by a galvanized sheet steel shell. At least the one I just dissected in the interest of science does. The connection between the spring and shell is not very strong in rotation. I have heard that perhaps the very first version (The first wire nut?) may have been constructed with the spring surrounded by lead. I can't say I have seen one that way.

   The word from fans of the original is that the clutch action experienced when they are heavily torqued is to be viewed as a feature preventing overtightening. A solution for a problem I have seldom, if ever, knew that I had. Sometimes I have gotten one or two wire nuts where the clutch action was weak and so prevented getting good tight connection when called to operate near their maximum capacity.

   The one weakness I have seen with a Scotchlock I is the PVC jacket that insulates the connection is fairly thin, about 1/32". I have, in a very few cases, seen this jacket become nicked or wear through on a rough spot in a metal box. The vibration of the machinery caused the wire nut to rub against the inside of the box. The thicker , tougher insulation on the Scotchlock IIs seems less likely to have this problem. Also I have seen this jacket, along with many other wire nut bodies deteriorate in sunlight where exposed. The first is a very rare occurrence. The second common to most wire nuts. Here again the thicker shell on the IIs seems more resistant.

   Other than this the Scotchlock Is are fine.  Probably better than most. IMHO, as of the last time I priced them, not worth the premium you pay for a bag. I do like the copper clad spring on the Merrette wire nuts. It grabs very quickly but their shell, which does have comfortable wings is otherwise pretty much the plain vanilla PVC common to most wire nuts. I still like the Scotchlock IIs better but I will use most anything except the cheapest discount nuts.

1. 
   benraymond | Jan 19, 2003 03:29am | #5

   Wow!  And all I do is twist the cheap suckers on!

   A newbie question that has always bothered me from you pros, if you don't mind...

   What's the proper way to use a wire nut?  I used to line up the wires, cut them all the same length with 1/2" bare wire showing, and fire the nut on.  I then had one or two which didn't "take,"  the connection was poor.  Now I line them up the same way and grab the ends with a pair of linesmans and twist them 3 or 4 times, and then try to put the cap on, but it doesn't go on easily.  Which way is right?  Should I be using higher quality wire nuts?

   Thanks,

   Ben

1. 
   don26299 | Jan 19, 2003 03:54am | #6

   I don't twist solid wires together.  (There is a need to watch that one solid doesn't slip back.)  My theory is that the spring then puts the same pressure on all.   The connector is faced with less bulk, and circuit changes are much easier.  I have had no problem with this method using 3M Scotchlocks 1 (old style) since '67.  

   When connecting a stranded (ie fixture wire) to a solid or solids, I strip the stranded about 1 inch, and spiral it around ONE of the solids. 

   I have never warmed up to standard wing nut wirenuts, because it seems to me the angle of the spring is too steep.  When remodeling I have seen them pop off easily.  From the many I see taped and wires twisted under these, it seems others have the same concerns.  The tape may also be to protect the large opening from a stray wire strand. 

   These new Scotchlock II seemed to have the best of both worlds unless I am being to quick to say that.

2. 
   4Lorn1 | Jan 19, 2003 03:59am | #7

   Manufacturers test wire nuts, typically, without twisting before applying the nut. From reports I hear that most major companies claim that while twisting won't hurt it won't help and isn't necessary.

   I strip just a bit long. Twist, making sure that if your doing five or more that one doesn't go up the middle without deflection. Cut off the ends square. Squeeze once opposite the cut to round the bundle and allow the nut to go on easily. Twist on the nut firmly. Check for shiners, exposed copper.

   Any stranded conductors are added to the bundle just before the nut goes on with the stranded leading a bit. All stranded connections are twisted with fingers, cut square and stuffed in the nut.

   With practice it becomes second nature with most of the steps done by feel. This is just my way. Most of the electricians I respect seem to do something similar. With practice everyone develops their own style. Funny how electricians can often tell who made up a box by subtle clues in technique.

3. 
   benraymond | Jan 19, 2003 07:54pm | #8

   Thanks 4Lorn and Fonzie, that helps.  I'll go back to not twisting the wires and get some better wire nuts.

   Ben