I’ll be constructing multiple (well..4) countertops in the near future. The customer wants all the counters to be tiled.
My question is, Whats the best way to construct these? My plan is 3/4 plywood with an additional piece of 3/4 for the edge. Do I need hardi on top of the ply?
As i’ve said before tiles not my forte, so thanks in advance for any help.
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Replies
What type of counter? Does it have a long unsupported span or does it cantilever? I've built a couple of each and have found that if spans are kept below 4', a single 3/4 hardwood ply base with 1/4 hardie backer glued to it makes a sufficient base. I wrap the ply with 3/4 hardwood stained to match or compliment cabinets and leave it high enough to be flush with the tile surface ( about one and half to one and three quarters if you leave slight reveal on the bottom side). also recommend that when grouted, you aquire color matched caulk for joint between edge band and tile. For long, unsupported spans I use 1/4 alum plate and weld ribs on the top to enhance rigidity. plate the bottom with 1/8 or 1/4 finish grade for appearance and use morter bed up top. this allows the counter to remain thin and light. oops, I went on yaking there. If you have specific info or questions post away.
Kevin
I did one a little while ago with 2 layers of 5/8 ply glued and screwed together. Then I used flexbond and then tile. One part of the kitchen was a big island with an overhang. The lady that owned the place put her whole body weight on the overhang like she was getting on a surfboard. The tile survived and she was happy.
Have a good day
Cliffy
any overhangs or just regular counter tops?
If the spans are short ... as stated .. U should be fine.
Great time to learn about epoxy grout.
small enough projects to get thru it ...
and ... since tile counter tops are the worst idea in the world ...
the customers won't hate U six months later.
Plus .... it's an UpCharge! Get the exact materials cost ... but figure and charge for 2 to 3 times the usual for standard grout labor. I charge 3 times ... no one else around here will even touch epoxy ... I charge more 'cause I ain't scared!
Jeff
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Whats the deal down in the tavern with Sancho Ron using your signature?
Cliffy
he's trying to clean up his image ....
U think it's a wise decision?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
nope
Nah Im the real Buck......Hes just a imitator
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
....
would the real jeff buck please stand up, please stand up.....
Double 3/4 CDX glued and screwed. Don't worry about the edges.
Thinset is fine. You may encounter some difficulties getting the edge tile to stay in place. I've use pl400 and a piece of masking tape to hold successfully.
Don't let Buck talk you into that epoxy grout, I think he gets a commission or something.
Oh, and if you think your clients are gonna love this thing 6 months from now forget it!!!
Tile countertops are ABSOLUTELY THE WORST IDEA!!!!!!!!
I will usually discuss it to a point of an argument before surrender.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
The biggest overhang is 18" and I plan on supporting that. I did tell the HO that she will hate these counters, maybe i'll bring it up again.
Thanks for the help. BTW were talking about ceramic tile so its not quite as heavy as stone.
18" overhang .... or 18" to span between solid bracing and/or cabs?
18" is huge. Too big without some sort of support.
biggest I'll go with doubled up 3/4 is 12"
btw .... just 'cause Eric's scared of epoxy ... doesn't mean U have to be.
read the directions ... work smart ... work fast.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only guy in the world that can work with the stuff.
then again .. maybe I am ... I am pretty amazing .. time to up the epoxy grout rates!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Do you use a good stiff epoxy grout float?
after trying about 5 different floats for epoxy ... I've switched to just using a cheap throw away plastic putty knife. I just make a trip to the drywall section of the store and buy the 3 pack of the blue plastic one's of 3 different sizes.
They clean up half decent ... but with all things epoxy related ... after the job .. they're pretty much trashed. So instead of worring about getting a float cleaned enough to reuse ... I just toss them.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Yep, its an 18" overhang. I think i'll probably end up putting in some legs on the corners. The island will consist of a 36" sink base w/a dishwasher next to it. On the other side will be the 18" overhang.
I'm not at all familar with the epoxy grout, where can I get it? how hard is it to work with?
I'm going to use dark porcelain 12x12 tiles on my new kitchen counter. I think porcelain is better than corian and granite. Porcelain is harder, keeps its shine, much more scratch resistant and you don't have to worry about heat and staining. I plan on using dark grout, toothpick width. If you buy good quality tiles you can get away with a grout line this fine. A $10 sf tile is about the best quality you can get in the tile world, and is also a lot cheaper than corain/granite/etc...
As for edges, I plan on using the metal edge made by Schluter.
http://www.schluter.com/english/products/2002/sectionb/overview-b/section-b.html
Kevin
any real tile store should have a brand or two.
I've found all that I've used to be just about the same.
I'll try to look up the exact name of the one that was supposed to be "the easiest" ... but ... like I said ... all seemed the same to me.
Epoxy is harder to work with in the sense that it sets up way quicker then standard grout ... and ... once set ... it's there .. forever.
Miss a little spot when doing the wipe down ... once it sets ... unless you demo that tile .. it's there forever.
That said ... just work smaller areas and work faster? Seems easy enough an idea to me? They usually give you 2 jars .. part A and part B ... plus ... a sand filler.
the directions are always ... mix ALL of A and ALL of B ... stir.
I've gotten brave enough to mark said containers in halves ... thirds ... or quarters ...
then mix up in smaller batches. I'd never think about using an open jar one day then reusing the next ... I'm sure once it's opened ... then shlef life is sometime that day .... But mixing in smaller batches helps keep the work area smaller and more managable.
I will however ... when working a larger area like a floor .... mix the whole dam thing .... nothing like the motivation of a full mix of epoxy to kick yer a$$ into grear.
Ya mix it ... float the joints .... then pretty much right away go back for the wipe down.
Plan on wasting 3 times the number of sponges U usually use ... plus ... at the end of the day ... don't even think about rinsing them out for the next job .. they're shot.
The best trick to the wipe down ... really the important step ... is to use water so hot it burns yer skin off when U dunk the sponge ... if I can almost stand to put your hand in ... it's almost hot enough!
With a slightly damp yet burning hot sponge ... wipe down as per the norm.
One benefit to using the epoxy ... no haze. With regular grout ... yuou wipe and let it set ... then wipe the haze ... let it set .. then wipe the haze ... let it set .. etc.
With epoxy ... you got once chance to get things wiped completely .. and ... there is no hazing. Once yer to the end ... you're at the end!
Just go back and hope there's no spots you have to gently chisel up and out ...
it'll feel almost tacky when you are done ... next day ... tack is gone ...and she's set up. Very stain and traffic resistant stuff. I'd not do a CT with anything else. Never heard the warning about white as being exclusive to epoxy ... but white grout is a bad idea in general. Most of the epoxy "liquids" are amber in color .. so I could see how "white" could turn yellow.
I'll do a quick net search.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
http://www.colorfastind.com/products/epoxy.htm
Here's the stuff that's supposed to be "easy to work with" ...
by ColorFast. don't believe the part about cold water clean up.
I've used this brand a coupla times ... plus about 4 others. Some were whole kits like this ... some were additives for their regular brand of grout. My tile store carried a different line than ColorFast ... they offer a compatable additive for their powder grouts ... like I said .. either or? The all in one ColorFast may be a bit less nerve racking for the first time.
Jeff
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Thanks for the info. I'll mention it to the client. I think i'll check it out even if she doesnt want to use it.
What do you think of large (say 12x12) dark stone tile with toothpick joint lines and grout the same color as the stone? Less grout lines and smaller lines, dark to almost eliminate staining problems, and stone to look similar to a granite counter at a fraction of the cost.
Wonderful.
How will you edge it?
Profile the stone?
Wood edge to match the cabinetry? Wood edges have a tendency to get very beat up looking over time, and there is always an issue with the joint between the wood and the tile.
Other?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Edged with rips of stone tile to match the thickness of 3/4" plywood plus 1/2" cement board (1-1/4") clamped and epoxied flush to the overhanging 12x12's.I think if I pick a thick tile I can chamfer the edge and polish it. Never tried it before...saw it done once.Anyways, I mentioned it since I thought you might like the idea as a solution to the not-so-swell issues of the typical tile counter.
Much of the stone in use you could chamfer the edge with a belt sander.
You can work your way up in grits, but you will not be able to polish it.
I have cheated with butchers wax and it is very close.
A good tile jobber carries edge profilers and poli$shing equipment suitable to the task.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Thanks for the belt sander and butchers wax tips.I bullnosed some limestone on Friday with my Right-angle grinder, but had the issue of the site-ground stone not having the polished look of the face of the stone tile, I might try the wax for that situation (for the edge of a deco course around a jetted-tub).
Last one I edged, I used strips of corian/avonite,(or something like that) and epoxyed them to the edge before I set the tile....just rounded over the edges w/ router...3x3 rough surface tile and DARK grout...As I recall used 2 layers 1/2 ply and 1/4 hardie backer for sub...Been in a rental for 2 years and still like new...bullit proof, but I would never (NEVER) use it myself...
OK, Eric why are tile countertops such a bad idea? Is is mainly the issue of stained grout? I'm considering it for our house.
IMO, yes, simply that.
The grout joints are porous and thus are suceptible(sp) to anything liquid getting in there and staining or growing.
In the Food Industry, the use of heavy duty epoxy grouts is a standard practice as well as a must.
Hence, Bucks evangelical love of the epoxy grout!
I used it once and it was a friggin mess, but that was very early on in it's development. Jeff tells me that it is much easier to work with now.
While some tile tops are nice to look at, they just are not practical for my needs
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Thanks Eric...I'm know this epoxy grout is a real pain to work with but for a countertop it seems to be the best solution. The other rumor i've heard about it though is that it yellows -- "don't do white"...which would be a problem as the countertop i'm considering would need white grout.