A few questoins on tile for you guys.
1) I’m tiling a tub surround including the ceiling. What is the best procedure, tile the ceiling first or the walls? what’s the best way to hold the ceiling tiles in place once there up? I’m using mortar to set them.
2) Are there any special type of spacers to use for diamond shaped tile? I’m using 1/8″ space between diamond tiles and it seems very awkward to align the tiles with the regular “cross” shaped spacers I have.
3) On the wall of the shower that houses the shower body and head, I would like to know how far to bring the bullnose to the end of the wall. Should it be flush to the end of the wall or set back a bit?
4) and last but not least, How much of a gap should I leave between the bottom of the tile and the surface of the tub? i’m going to put a bead of matching silicone down instead of grouting the bottom.
Thanks for your advice
Mick
Replies
Mick,
I'm not a tiler by trade, but I have done a fair amount of it with good results. I've never tiled a ceiling, but I would assume that in this case mastic would work better than mortar, since I've had better luck with that (for setting up faster without them sliding) on walls. What kind of tile? Hopefully it's fairly thin wall tile, not heavy, thick floor tile or God help you.
Next: I do not, ever, use the crosses (spacers) for tiling. I don't know any professional tilers that do use them either, but I'm sure it's a personal thing. I have a good eye for small dimensions. I know exactly what 1/4" or 3/8 or whatever is, no problem. Maybe it's not that easy for others.
I don't understand your question 3 very well. About the last question: If I were to caulk this place, I'd use a pretty small (1/8") or so gap. But I wouldn't caulk it. Are you caulking it because the tub moves?
Hope some of this helps.
MD
Thanks for your response mad dog.
The Tile is 3/8" thick for walls and ceiling, not thin at all.
The reason I am caulking the bottom between tile and tub is because I always notice the grout gives away the most on that bottom row. It makes sense to me to give that spot room to move if need be. Plus all the so called experts reccommend it in thier books.
I'll try to explain my third question a little better. The wall with the shower head is a little over 32" wide. I'm ending the outside edge with a bullnose tile obviously. My question is how much off the end should I set the bullnose back? I don't think I should run it right to the edge should I? Does the outside edge of the bullnose recieve grout?
Answers much appreciated.
Mick
Not a tile guy by trade either...but have set more than one tile. Tile sub may do different...but me..
ceiling first.....less to break should it fall! Easier to rig the platform that's gonna support it.....2x's an ply.....or other 2x's...and shims/wedges. I usually use thinset.....mix it right...and it'll stick....till ya brace it quick.
I do use spacers.....find it quicker for me. I don't how ever......set them as a flat X......stand them up.....with just one leg down...two arms setting on the tile....and one head stand up....that way...they'll fit any tile...and are reuseable.......much easier to pop out. Sometimes I'll set a run with the spacers.....pull them up...and use the same spacers on the next run.
I would use a matching tile grout/caulk at the tub joint. Last company I was with I was made to use the caulk at all 90 deg angles.....they had too many call backs on grouts angles.....I can see that logic. Tile store should have the right stuff....I ain't talking about a similar color painters caulk!
Let's go see what no 3 was...Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Ahhh...the reveal at the corner. Depends what ya like. Remember.....in all facets of carpentry...the reveals hide the minor flaws of surfaces not matching up perfectly.
I'd say maybe a fat 8th. Get a bit behind the rounded part of the corner bead. Enough that a nice tooled bead of caulk has a place to sit.
Think about the shower door or curtain rod.
That's got to attach somewhere......and the door usually goes on that bullnose. If a nice door is being installed.......and that line ain't plumb.......but the door is.....it's gonna stand out real bad.
With a curtain...not as obvious...not a straight unforgiving line to follow...bot the rod escushion has to go somewhere....and that's where that bullnose would come into play there.
A real tile guy may have better info.....but I've done these things more than just once. Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Jeff, Thanks for taking time to answer.
Mick
TBone, follow Jeff's advice on all the above , but on the bullnose, grout the front edge , be sure to scrape out any excess thin-set before it dries, this will give the grout the proper depth in the joint, you don't need to caulk here because there is no differing materials meeting, as there is at the tub/wall intersection . As Jeff said , be sure to use the grout/caulk made for this application! As to the X's, NEVER leave them laid flat , even if you use them this way they must be removed prior to grouting, otherwise they will ghost through the grout. I use them as Jeff described and it works just great, easy to remove and I sometimes use them to scrape the grout joint of excess thin-set.
Geoff
and I'll even back your decision to grout the bullnose. At that point....it's purely semantics........grout/caulk.......personal decision. Can't say you'd go wrong with either.
A nice tooled grout line would probably look better to the discriminating eye....that caulk is easier/faster for me. But I can't argue the logic. Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Jeff, what's the best way to follow the diamond pattern up the wall? I laid out some reference lines today but I'm afraid once i trowel thinset on the wall I'm going to lose my lines. Is there a technique you use to keep the diamonds in line?
I've only done a diamond pattern running up hill on spa tub steps........don't know how that'd translate to a whole wall?
Only think I could offer..........I'd get the angle I want........snap what I think to be the focus point........and then snap lines parallel to that......then be real careful not to trowel over them as the work marches on.
You planning on attaching blocks near the bottom to support the wall tile till they set? I like to leave out the bottom row...especially if it get's trimmed down.....and screw a 1x ledger to the wall right across the bottom. That way....nothing moves over nite.
Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Has anyone picked up the tile book by the dude over at JLC? I've been tempted a few times....but haven't yet.
Maybe that'll be my bookstore purchase this weekend. Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
I've got a copy that's a couple of years old. It is a great reference with a lot of specific how-to details. He covers a lot of differents situations and substrates though of course not everything that you will see. He is, like all fine craftsman, quite opinionated in what makes for a good job, but he really does know his stuff. Like you, I only do tile work 4 to 6 times a year; so it helps to have an expert in your corner.
I'm just a DIY'er so anything I say can be held against me.....but I go over my plumb lines with a fat black Sharpie so I can see them under the thinset or mastic. And I put up a lot of lines - sometimes one gets lost but I can use others to keep it straight.
I agree about caulking the joints - both corners and at the top of the tub - because of the cracking issue. For my current project I got matching sanded caulk, made by the grout manufacturer, from the tile supplier. It's not a perfect match, but very close (my husband can't see the mismatch) and looks better than cracks. Here are some photos - the bathroom is actually done now, I just don't have the final photos up yet:
http://home.pacbell.net/dlong/webhouse.html
"A completed home is a listed home."
spacing????? I use a 6b or 8b finish nail.But
usuallyjusteyeball it...also if youre gonna tile the cieling use mastic glue over wonder board....Me myself.in my spec house...using 12x12" marble tiles....I used thinset. Ya gotta set up sme sort of sytem to hold the marble upfor a day to dry. I did the ceiling first.....screwed up 2x3's about 3" lower then the finished ceiling.....put up my first course and slipped in a 2x3 accross the length to hold up the tile(marble till it dried). Did the same with each course.....Course you can just use mastic but aint as solid....I always over do things...lol
1. Tile Ceiling First, so you don't have thinset and crap falling all over your freshly laid tiles.
2. Yes, there are diamond spacers. Find them at http://tiletools4less.com/ or http://www.tiletools.com/ Good advice about removing them. They even have a nice $6 tool for removing them.
3. I can't tell you, because I can't see your layout. Assuming this is a 3 wall tub/shower combo, it needs to go slightly past the inside line of the tub.
4. About a 1/4". TBone, be really carefull here, as this area is the single biggest source of a crappy tile job. If your tub is not level or the seal not perfectly waterproof, water will get in that gap and get into your framing, and in a year, you have mold and rotting lumber. This is what I do:
I shim out the CBU about 1/4" from the studs, so the CBU can go over the tub flange without bulging out. Prior to installing the CBU, I cut about a 4 inch wide section of PVC or CPE and place it all along the length of the tub flange. It is installed with staples to the framing above the flange and some silicone caulk or butyl to the flange. This waterproofs the seal. I bring the CBU up to and over the flange and stop it about 1/4" short of the tub. I fill that gap with with a good quality color matched sanded caulk.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927