I need to put tile around a jet tub and the sheetrockers already hung taped and painted the drywall right down and around the tub. I’ve never done it before, but have seen it done, and was wondering if it would be feasable to put thinset right on the painted sheetrock and set my tiles on that? If not, could I glue schulter underlayment over the drywall and put tile onto that?
Also, salesman at HD claims the pre-mixed grout doesn’t need to be sealed, even in my showers. Sounds scepticle to me, any input? Any thing in particular I should look for in the best grout I can get for a shower environment? He also talked me out of a tile sealer that you put down before grouting to help cleaning the haze off of the tiles. Have any of you tried similar products? Good or bad? Thanks in advance!
upnorthframer
“If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!”
Replies
Tiling directly over sheetrock in a wet area like a shower or tub surround is a code violation.
Without pulling down the sheetrock your best bet is as you wrote: use Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall and tile over that.
Do not use the premixed thinset or the premixed grout that is sold in resealable tubs at the box stores. They are bad, bad products.
Use powdered thinset and powdered grout. Within the grout family there are basically two kinds...portland cement based grouts, and epoxy based grouts. Portland grouts are more than adequate in residential construction, but if you want to go with a bit more protection, you can use an epoxy derivative like Spectralok. You need to be fully prepared to see the job through when using epoxy grouts. Portland cement based grouts are more forgiving during installation and cleanup than epoxies, and with the modifiers and anti-microbial agents and mildewcides that the portlands contain, they perform quite well.
If you are using porcelain tiles, then there is no need to seal them prior to grouting. If using stone, then pre-sealing can sometimes be advantageous.
Since the walls won't get soaked like around a shower, you can put tile on top of the paint. Not the best, but it gets done all the time. All grout needs to be sealed, period. But why buy pre-mixed grout? Dry mix grout is cheap and easy, and comes in a lot more colors than just "white". You really only need to seal the tiles before grouting if they will attract the grout. If you are using glazed tiles, don't bother. If they are natural stone or slate, it helps a lot.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
What Mongo said, more or less. Rip out the drywall at least up to 5 feet or so and install some sort of tile backer. Whether it's code or not (varies by area), it's the only reasonable approach. (Maybe you can get away with a backer over the drywall, but it needs to be something that won't conduct moisture through to the drywall.)
Whether you need the pre-grout sealer or not depends on the tile -- with smooth, brightly glazed tile you can get away without it, but with a textured tile it'll save you time cleaning the tile after grouting.
This is a question about a tub surround. It sounds like the showers are separate. Why take the drywall out to 5' up??
IMO the drywall is fine where it is. I would coat the bottom 6" or so with Redgard, and coat the top of the deck with same. Then tile.
Well, I can't see the layout very well from here. If the tile will be subjected to "wave action", splashing, hand showers, etc, then it needs to be on something more substantial than drywall. How high up depends on how high up the exposure will be. If, on the other hand, it's a largely cosmetic treatment (similar to a kitchen backsplash) then tile over drywall will work OK (but it should at the very least be moisture-resistant or paperless drywall).
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
A typical tub deck is maybe two feet high, or less. I can't see any risk at five feet up. The drywall can be waterproofed using either sheet or liquid applied membranes from a quite a few companies. It is entirely unnecessary to take any drywall out. There is definite value in waterproofing the first few inches of the wall above the deck, but if the owner is pushing enough water out of the tub to get the tub backsplash wet then we need to talk about waterproofing the floor and installing an area drain.
I put Redgard on a floor recently and in doing so sloshed a little bit on the bottom of the walls, which are painted drywall. Before putting baseboard up I scraped the Redgard boogers off. You cannot get them off cleanly, they pull the drywall paper right off.
I should have specified more. The tub is fiberglass with a tile flange around it. I'm only going to put one row of 8" tile around the tub on the walls as a splash guard. I'm thinking of placing the schulter over the drywall with thinset and hang it over the tile flange. Then place the tile over that. My main concern is the bond between the schulter and the drywall. It is just standard drywall. Thoughts..........
upnorthframer
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!"
Is the tile flange of the tub already tucked in behind the drywall? Or is the drywall sitting on top of the flange?
The drywall is over the flange so I have options.
upnorthframer
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!"
Best scenario is a rolled factory drywall edge over the flange, held up maybe 1/4" or so, not touching the top of the tub. Mask off the drywall 1" below the top-of-tile line. Mask off the top of the tub. Get a small bucket of Redgard, pack the gap full, and use a roller to coat the drywall below the masking. Or, get a roll of Kerdi and a tube of their sealant. Fill the gap with sealant. Thinset a band of Kerdi to the drywall behind the tile. Then set your tile. Hold it 1/8" up off the tub, and caulk the joint between tile and tub, do not grout.
What is this "redgard" ?
RedGard¯Waterproofing and Crack Prevention MembraneView Image
Ready-to-use, elastomeric, waterproofing and anti-fracture membrane for commercial and residential tile and stone installations. Easily applied with roller, trowel or sprayer. Meets IAPMO specifications for use as a shower pan liner. Protected by MoldGard¯ Technology to resist mold and mildew growth.
Substrates
Concrete, cement backerboards, exterior grade plywood, exterior decks
This product is covered by a commercial warranty and a homeowner warranty.
This product contributes to LEED Certification.
Data sheets contain installation/application information.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So redguard is not recommended for sheetrock based on what FastEddie says........ That is why I was asking if I could apply thinset over the drywall and glue kerdi membrane to it. Then thinset my tiles to that? I feel that will give me the best looking finished product as I don't have to cut the sheetrock out and take the chance of wrecking the paint, etc... and it seems plenty water resistant for the application. Plus I'm sick of working with durock!!!! Your thoughts.........
upnorthframer
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!"
True that Redgard does not show drywall as a substrate. I assume this is because they do not want you to make a shower stall with drywall and Redgard. However, Redgard will stick to your painted drywall like nothing you have ever used. Don't let it dry on your hands either. If you carefully waterproof the bottom 6-7" of the drywall with Redgard and then thinset tile to it, you will be fine. If it makes you feel more comfortable, remove a 6-7" strip of drywall and install a matching strip of Denshield, Wonderboard, Hardi, etc., and then tile that. Or, as Mongo was recommending, leave the drywall and thinset a band of Kerdi to it. The main reason you might not want to do that is the expense of buying a whole roll of Kerdi to get the small amount that you need.
Sounds good to me. How long does the redguard need to dry before thinsetting and putting tile down? Do they sell redguard at Home Depot?
upnorthframer
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!"
Yes, they sell it at HD.
For what it's worth, there is a kind of drywall that is waterproof and can be tiled directly to. Saw it after the demo at the JLC show. USG supplies it. I have no idea how well it works, just letting people know about it.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Tu stultus es
Denshield?
Maybe - it was different from what I had seen before.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Tu stultus es
Could you be thinking of Fiberock? I've never used it, but I don't think I like it as much as Denshield.
How can you not like a product you've never used!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Tu stultus es
Good question. I've seen it and felt it and I just don't see any advantage over Durock or Hardibacker, both of which just SEEM like more substantial tile backers.
For shower walls, Denshield is my favorite for ease of working with and for it's moisture-proof skin. I know that Denshield is not highly regarded by a lot of tile guys and I'm not eager to debate it since I have only done a few showers and I'm far from an expert.
By the way, what's with "Tu stultus es"? Are you honoring The Onion or is that a message for me?
Le Hon yon!
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Mare see!
Kerdi is available on ebay by the sq. ft. $1.45 to 1.50.
A minor clarification ... I didn't say Redguard doesn't work over sheetrock. I copied those specs from the webpage."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
would be feasable to put thinset right on the painted sheetrock and set my tiles on that?
No. Rip out the gyprock and replace it with ½" CBU.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Redgard should work, but I'd prefer Kerdi, or the similar product from Noble. For definitive tile advice go to JohnBridge.com forum.
Bill
I use hardi in wet locations. BTW I believe tile sealer is for sealing dirt out of the grout. Dont know that I would trust it to waterproof a porous material.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.