I am about to start putting 6×10 on a shower wall. ( have the 1/2 inch hardi up already)What is the max size for using mastic, or should I just use a thinset?
Also, the floor had 12×12 resilient tiles, (I think that is their term {3/32″ thick peel and press}). The previous installer of theses tiles used a black substance on the concrete. I would venture to say that is was glue, but if it was glue it had failed miserably..the tiles came up very easily. Maybe it was a sealer of some sort. First, doI need to get this up before I install ceramic tile on the floor and if so, what gets it up. And thirdly, if it does not come up what should I do. I thought about installing a 1/4 in backe board on top of it because around the tiolet the concrete was not floated well at all….heaps up. Toillet was sitting an many shims. Very small area 16ft sqaure. Would an oil base bonding primer on the floor fix my problems.?
Replies
6x10 by 1/4"? If that's it then you can get away with a good mastic. I would use thinset, but that's just me. I know mastic is easier.
Mastic should not be used on wet areas (showers) or any floors.
As for the floor I don't know what what was used, but might try some of the "orange" cleaners/solvents before trying mineral spirits and the like.
There are also adhesvie removers available at the home horror stores. Before you can put down any cememtous product the concrete needs to be able to absorb water.
I would look at using a self leveling compound before trying CBU.
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Do not use mastic in the shower, regardless of the tile size. Really bad move.
Lay some 1/4" hardiebacker on the floor over the goo, and then the tile. Spread a layer of thinset under the hardie too.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
No mastic in showers. People have told me it's ok but if you read the can it says no wet areas. It's ok it you going all the way around a bathroom and you use it on other walls but I wouldn't use it in a shower, on a counter, or on a backsplash.
Headstrong, I'll take on anyone!
SAY NO TO MASTIC!! you already put in backerboard, put redguard on it and then use modified thiset and set whatever size tile you want. as for the floor if it is that small then get a floor scraper and scape that junk up!
if it is sticky throw baby powder on top and scrape scrape scrape down to bare crete, around the toilet get a chisel and hammer and chip it down and you can backbutter your tiles to match the height.
Get on it, it won't take you 2 hours to scrape and tile a 16 foot area-- and show us pictures when you are done
Go with thinset, for you surround and for the floor, pop the tiles scrape and clean, sometimes thinner or spirits can clean the goo. Grind humps and use an acrylic modifed thinset for the floor.
Judo Chop!
I am amazed that so many are against mastic in the shower. LIke I said, I am a remodeler/trim carp. I do tile work on the side, because I can and because I do a good job. Many of the tile jobs I have done with mastic are still doing well. I am not countering what you professionals are saying. As a matter of fact, I am taking your advice and will not touch mastic in a wet area ever again because I cannot think of anything more humiliating and costly,.. and embarrassing, than to get a call from a client stating that my tile work was faulty. It just isn't worth it to use a product that good potentially ruin a weeks worth of work. I am just amazed that I have never heard this before now. I am a trim carp at a remodel job right now. I left for a few weeks while the tile guys did their thing and when I got back to the job yesterday, I noticed they installed 12x12 travertine on the walls and cielings of the Bath/shower. They did a great job! Will they be called back? we will see in a few years.
I, for one, come on this web site for suggestions and inspiration.(on occasion I get to share my wisdom). I vow never to use mastic in wet areas ever again. You made your case and I am a believer. Thank you!
>>> I am amazed that so many are against mastic in the shower.
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>>> ...and will not touch mastic in a wet area ever again
Let's try this one more time. NO MASTIC EVER, not in wet nor dry areas.
Got it?
<G>
Goood Boooyyy,
I dont use mastic either..thin set....
sounds like a song huh?
Im a thinset man babbyyy
View Image Official Jeff Buck Memorial Tagline "
I was doing some more in a house that was build in 1970. There was a shower off the master bedroom that was tile on DW.The color/pattern of the tile made it look like it was orginal. But the base was "plastic" so I don't know if it was all orginal or not. Specially when you consider that the floor was set over a 1" mud base.And it was just the bottom row and the back and one side that was bad. That corner had a wide crack. If that had been well caulk it might not have failed.I was doing someother work in a house build in the early 90's. The upstair shower had a crack in the plastic base.I asked if he knew if tile was mastic on DW. He said yes. Right after they bought the house they have to redo the shower in the master bath. At that time less than 10 years old.The Tile Council of American does show a tub suround using mastic on DW. But then warning that it is only for dry areas and not to use if there is a shower head.You should get the TCA handbook. Very cheap.http://www.tileusa.com/publication_main.htm
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Cutawood, Mastic is water soluble.As is drywall, including greenboard. Greenboard is moisture resistant, not waterproof. Repeated or long-term wettings will destroy greenboard.We all know that although grout and tiles shed water, that grout itself is not waterproof. Water can get through grout, and it does. It can also get through failed grout (cracks, pinholes, etc). That's why we have drainage planes between cement board and the structural framing of the house. That's also why cement board is better than gypsum board as a tile backer.Cemetn board gets wet, it doesn't break down. Drywall gets wet, it decays over time.As of 01Jan06, coming up on a year, IRC prohibits greenboard as a tile backer in wet areas (showers and tub surrounds).So, cement board and thinset in wet areas.For what it's worth, avoid the premixed tubs of "grout" that are sold in home centers. Believe it or not, that crap is water soluble as well.Use portland cement-based grout. It's not too hard to find bags of grout that are already latex-modified and that have a mildewcide-type of additive already in the dry mix. Add water and there you go.Mongo
>>> that grout itself is not waterproof
Some of the newer epoxy based grouts are waterproof. But as you said, if the grout (regardless of type) or the tile is cracked, water may get in.
"For what it's worth, avoid the premixed tubs of "grout" that are sold in home centers. Believe it or not, that crap is water soluble as well."
Do you have an opinion on the premixed tubs of thinset I saw in the home center?
"Do you have an opinion on the premixed tubs of thinset I saw in the home center?"Same difference. It has to be a mastic.TRUE Thinset is a cemetious product that cures by hydration. Once it is wet it starts setting..
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Pretty much what Bill wrote.Anything premixed, that is wet and in a sealed tub, hardens by a simple drying process. Guess what happens when it's exposed to water again? It can absorb moisture and can re-soften. Dry-powder thinsets cure by a chemical process. They're portland cement-based. they don't "dry", they "cure".The "grout" that comes premixed in sealed tubs? You scoop it out, float it in place, and let it dry? That's simply a derivative of organic mastic with sand added as a bulk filler. You would not want that in a wet area.You want somthing that will last for the ages in a wet area, be it thinset or grout, make sure it's portland cement based.Be cured,
Mongo
Mastic has its uses, wianscot etc.. But I can't take all the credit, There is a load of wisdom out there. Check johnbridge tile forum, I remember there is some good info there too.__________________________
Judo Chop!
For some reason I missed that you are doing this in a shower. No mastic. Thinset only. They're right.
the "black glue" could be black mastic that has abestos in it !