Howdy-
I have a kitchen remodel I’m having sheetrocked right now. There’s 11 sheets covering a new (full wall), a half wall, and misc. pieces where there used to be walls. My beef is that there’s been 2 guys working on it for 3 hours and they’ve only hung 4 sheets. There’s a decent amount of cutouts for outlets and stuff, but these guys seem to be moving like mollases.
I asked the super, who hasn’t seen the job, and his answer was he sent finishers because it was a small job. I used this guy once before and was happy, but now I’m not sure if I should lean on him a bit more.
Any rules of thumb for how long this should take? I know 1 sheet every 45 minutes for 2 guys isn’t cutting it.
Kevin
Replies
but these guys seem to be moving like mollases.
Where's the job located? Could be they can only move so fast. The mid 90's heat is bit more debilitating in the BosWash corridor than just up the street from me.
If they are "just finishers" then that could be part of the problem, too. They may be speed deamons with knife and mud and sanding wands.
It might be that the question to ask the super is: "Did you figure in how fast these guys would be, when you quoted me the price?" It could be that the crew has nothing on this week coming into the Fourth and a long w/e. If you're getting this as a lump sum price instead of t&M, then the only thing you have to cope with is your schedule frustration(s).
Hmm, did you put this job on any sort of time table? Are they going to make you wait other subs? Did you have any BI close-in delays?
Man, I'm just full of questions, and just not many answers.
If you could, you could take a bit of time and fill in your Profile info (click on your own name in blue)--it's amazing how just a little info helps answering questions.
Good, relevant questions....
Its t&m, which *was* fine when they did the bathroom. House isn't that hot. Timeframe was to be done within a day or two. I don't mind waiting to get it done right, but these guys are putzes.
They screw each nail in slow-mo, like they have all the time in the world. The one guy helps hold the sheet while the other puts a few screws in- then stands there while he finishes the sheet off. Hell, now that I think about it the sob's even forgot to glue the sheets to the studs (the super said they would). I'm getting even more mad as I write this so I'm going.
Kevin
Well, I prefer to hammer the nails, but they seem to be the professionals. Don't question it.
he he....hammering nails not screws seems wise
Got me thinking... Not to digress from the topic too far, but , my great grandfather was a cabinetmaker, and (in the 1960's) I remember my grandfather occassionally referring to screws as "screwnails". It is, after all, a "nail" that "screws" in. He was NOT referring to ardox nails either.
Anyone else heard this nomenclature? Maybe a locality thing or maybe a time frame/ generation to generation thing.
- Brian.
Mark - My dad used to use "screwnails" too in the 60's and 70's. They were the ones that came with aluminum edging for stair threads or metal for the edge of flooring. They had a spiral down the side, like a spiral deck nail but with a rounded head, and actually would turn when you hit them with a hammer. They still come with the metal. I don't know what "ardox nails" are. Don
Don -
Interesting that they were called screwnails. And what you just described is a type of Ardox nail.
- Brian.
Edited 6/28/2005 10:08 pm ET by MARKLS8
Raised in the UK we used to call hammers "American screwdrivers". When we did that someone would ask "What d'ya think the slots are for?" to which some wag always replied "to take them out with" (An oldie, I know)cheers
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
hi Kevin, just a DIYer, but my girlfriend's nephew and I hung a celing (3) sheets and two walls (4) sheets in about 3 hours, probably not as big of a room but sometimes the smaller rooms are worse specially with an "L" Shaped Ceiling. There were 2 junction boxes and two can lights in the ceiling and 5 outlets in the walls. I may going out a limb here but I figure a pro ought to be able to hang one sheet every 15 to 20 minutes.
Dan
Kev, You did not hire a pro drywall company to do this job, right? And you agreed to pay T&M for hanging 11 sheets of drywall? You're getting exactly what you asked (and are paying) for.Sheetrocking rates generally go for about $35 per board (average) to hang, tape and finish. You do the math and decide if you're getting a good deal. I guess I just don't get why you'd agree to pay an open-ended T&M on a small sheetrocking job from a company you, evidently, don't really trust.But nevermind, pro rockers would never take a little job like yours anyway.Oh, and Kev, whenever you agree to any T&M work, don't stand there and try and sharpshoot their time..You'll only frustrate the hell out of the both of yous. And you'll still have to pay the bill.
Kev, You did not hire a pro drywall company to do this job, right? And you agreed to pay T&M for hanging 11 sheets of drywall? You're getting exactly what you asked (and are paying) for.
No, this guy's a "pro" drywall company. Does a share of new homes and small jobs. I was willing to do t&m because thats what this guy did for my bathroom. But the workers he brought that time had a clue and knew what hey were doing.
Sheetrocking rates generally go for about $35 per board (average) to hang, tape and finish. You do the math and decide if you're getting a good deal.
Ok, did the math and I'm not. 6 man hours today x $40= $240. Since they haven't taped and mudded the boards I'd say $20 per board so far. $20 x 4 = $80. So far the project is 300% over budget. Sure its just the beginning, but thats what I'm afraid of.
I guess I just don't get why you'd agree to pay an open-ended T&M on a small sheetrocking job from a company you, evidently, don't really trust.
I'm using them again because I liked the work they did before. I guess I'm looking for some data instead of just saying their slow/they suck.
But nevermind, pro rockers would never take a little job like yours anyway.
Oh, and Kev, whenever you agree to any T&M work, don't stand there and try and sharpshoot their time..You'll only frustrate the hell out of the both of yous. And you'll still have to pay the bill.
What's your deal anyways? The bottom line is that he sent some finishers who are pi**ed and dragging their feet. I know good workers when I see them, and these guys aren't it. Maybe their mad at the boss for hanging sheets? Who knows. I have no issues with t&m if people know what their doing.
kevin
Edited 6/27/2005 11:03 pm ET by kevreh
Reminds me of a sign posted in my dad's workshop when I was a kid:
Labor Rate:
$ 25.00 per hour
$ 35.00 per hour if you watch
$ 45.00 per hour if you help
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
$55/hr. if the homeowner tried to do it themselves, and then had to be bailed out
"They screw each nail in slow-mo"
That just may be the crux of the problem.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Think this is bad? I had a customer dicker me down - I didn't go for it - so he hung the D/W himself. CUT with a saw each sheet into 2'x4' pieces, PREDRILLED each one @ 6" o/c, then HANDSCREWED them in. Did I correct him on how it should be done - what, after dickering me?
Just thought I'd cheer you up a bit
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
Edited 6/28/2005 12:16 am ET by piko
Best I've ever done---2 guys ,close to the piles,clean floor,smooth sailing --100 sheets
worst case I can recall--2 guys,impossible conditions,more holes than rock --4 sheets
the 4 sheet day was a lot more wore work!
Ten minutes to hang three sheets.. That's what this fat old guy did on saturday morning before help got here..
But I'm cheating.. It's hung on SIP's so anyplace I put the screw gun I hit, there were no outlet's to cut around (in fact no cutting at all, just three sheets to grab, slide over a few feet and screw anyplace I wanted to).
Actually I cheated even worse, It's for my timberframe so all the screws were behind timbers.~ no taping! ;-)
sometimes I nail the odd screw....
but never screw the nails...takes to long....
Sounds like you're getting screwed. As others have stated, drywall crews are used to getting paid per board, so if they go at their production speed, you're going to get a better price than per board. Are they routing out the can lights/outlets or measuring and cutting? That's a quick clue whether their a legit drywall company. I'm sorry you're getting a bad deal...it's a..hole contractors like you're dealing with who give us all a bad name.
Thanks for the understanding- their measuring and cutting. Of the 2 guys from yesterday, 1 showed up with 2 new ones. Fortunately, the new ones know what their doing and are making good/normal progress now.
This has been an interesting thread. Of the responses, some people gave specific examples/guidelines that told me these guys were clearly not doing their job yesterday. Other people chose to focus their energy on me versus the job at hand. For those folks, I hope you don't treat all your customers that way- large or small.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Kevin
An estimating manual I have says 0.018 HR/SF hanged, finished, and ready for primer.
My best guess is that it would take about 14 years.