All
This is so simple I am almost embrassed to tell you this tip. When I started doing this I thought “Why did it take you this long to figure this out?”
Last year while bending a triple bend for fascia we had trouble with our bends not lining up.
So I cut blocks on the miter saw to eliminate using our tape measure each time to make the bend. See pictures.
I usually cut a piece of 1×6 to the length of the bend and then cut it in 1/2. That way I have two identical blocks. One for each end of the brake for a two man bend.
I label the blocks with their size. You could also label them in the sequence of the bend and with top or bottom.
Rich
Replies
Don't be embarrassed I like tips like that I can see myself using that. I never thought of that usually on long pieces I waste a bunch of time checking both ends repeatedly until im satisfied. Thanks
danno
You're welcome.
Rich
For the benefit of ignorant guys like me, just what are you bending and why?
bruce
We were bending aluminum to wrap window trim and sills.
Rich
Do you have some pics of the windows all trimmed up? Someone just suggested I do that on my house but I can't visualize it. Appreciate it.
haste makes waste . . .
hast
No I didn't take pictures of the windows.
I tried looking on FHB site and I didn't find any pictures to help you.
I even tried the Rollex site and I didn't find pics.
Sorry
Rich
hast
Here are pictures of the windows we wrapped.
We were working on a farm garage with barn style windows.
I cut the trim at the bottom (following the sill) with the skill saw so that the sill wrap can go 3/4" beyond what you see on the surface. This works well with brickmold too.
The 2nd picture shows that we ran the wrap into the window, across the face of the trim, back to the siding and then 2" on to the Tyvek. Then we ran the J-channel.
When the siding is being applied then we slip a piece of aluminum or vinyl under the bottom of the J-channel and on to the top of the last piece of siding so that any water in the J-channel can make it out the weep holes.
Under the sill we install the J-channel first then the aluminum so that any water off the sill goes over top of the siding. Sorry no good picture of that.
Rich
I trimmed out a house one by doing the window trim like you did except instead of seperate j channel, bent it out of alum., making the window andj one piece.
It has lasted over 15 years, except I used vinyl coated alum. and the vinyl worket off. It was painted and still looks good.
I like to use a spring loaded Center Punch too, if laying out on a flat table, makes a mark visable from both sides. Works well for copper anf angled bends like a gutter lining.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "
Me.
Sphere
Well that's fine and dandy for you guys that can read tape mesures, and for big conpanies that have more than one tape mesure.
With my methob when the guy with the tape mesure gos to anoher job then the rest of us can keep working with the same profesionel results. LOL
Rich
Snork!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Should we ask FHB to have an article on reading a tape?
frammer
Should we ask FHB to have an article on reading a tape?
Let's just wait until we switch over to that new fangled system with centipedes and miters.
Don't want to do too much learning at once.
Might tax the brain too much.
Rich
I like using a center punch also. Regular, not spring loaded. You can mark at least 4 pieces at a time with the same measurment.
The block idea is still a good one, especially if your working solo.
I still ain't figured out your articulated hinge - hemming method--- gotta work on that one.
What a relevation! I think I shall try it on that house I'm building now.
Have a good day
Cliffy
cliff
Go for it.
I hope it helps.
Different guys read the line differently. One has the line exposed and the other end is just coveing the line. Then the problems start to magnify. The blocks eliminate some of that.
Rich
This might be off topic but last month one of our helpers (60 yrs old)
said to me " It may be time to fix my tape measure the hook is loose again and I'm tired of subtracting the thickness of the hook."I say " What??"He replies "When the hook gets loose I crimp it so it doesn't slide back and forth, I have to do that to all my tapes."That just explained SOOOO many problems.I couldn't say anything, all I could do was stare at him from behind my dusty safety glasses.
that be a good one right there!
owmy
ROFLOL
They just don't make tapes like they used to.
Last tape I bought was loose right out of the package. LOL
Rich
I was taught way back to cut a quarter inch slice at each point you want to bend. Works not too bad but I'll try the blocks, see how it goes.
Have a good day
Cliffy
I dont have a brake but thats a great idea. I have helped bend aluminum before and I thought it was a PITA. That would really speed up the pace.
MSA1
We don't have to get the tapes out a measure all the time.
For us it speeds theings up.
Rich
We don't have to get the tapes out a measure all the time.
For us it speeds theings up.
Rich This is all i'm saying.
Are you saying that you can't read the tape measure the same, time after time?<G>
frammer
You've got me dead to rights on that one.
3/8 or 5/8 what's the difference. They are both just on big mark past 1/2".
Gosh you guys are just so picky sometimes. LOL
Rich
Send it in to the magazine for the tips and techniques section.
They'll pay ya for it!!
Edited 6/19/2008 10:09 am ET by jet
jet
Maybe I'll do that. But right now I have to hurry off to the copyright office.
Rich
Nice idea, but you can't stretch the blocks to fit, like I can my elastic tape measure.
Nice brake also. Way better than my 1x's and clamps. :)
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted
Brake is a rental from the lumberyard. $35/day
I tried to make a brake once with 1x oak and hinges and clamps.
When back to renting one.
Most often we can just use the brake at the lumberyard for free and take the stock back to the job site.
Once in a while I rent it for a couple of days.
Brakes are too expensive and bulky for the number of times I really need one. No room in the shop to keep one set up all the time. Using one for free is a sweet deal.
Rich
YOU ARE THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!
No really, genius. I do the same as others, running back and forth checking an rechecking. I remember the last time I did metal bending; the sun was extra bright and I was bending unpainted aluminum. It was nearly impossible to see a line and move just right...go blind for a few minutes.
I will for sure use your method from now on.
Then I will look like the genius on the jobsite!
thanks
gk
I had a coil from Lowes that was wht/grey and I was used to wht/brn. Full sun, sunglasses, never read the box, just assumed it was wht/wht.
Bent the whole roll inside out.
Ouch..didn't know it until it was up against the white vinyl siding.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
dreamcatcher
YOU ARE THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE!
No really, genius.
Now that will give me a big head .
Tell my wife.
And our crew only has one tape measure to boot.
Rich
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I invented that technique a number of years ago.
Sincerely,
Al Gore
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Steve
Darn
That's what they told me at the patent office too.
Rich
Your idea is actually quite clever. I've done something similar when I line up my long straightedge for cutting out cabinet components from 4 x 8 sheets of plywood, but have never thought about your idea for the brake.
Thanks for the tip!
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Edited 6/20/2008 9:49 pm ET by SteveInCleveland
Cargin,
I must be missing something here( entirely possible and it wouldn't be the first time I missed the obvious)
but what is the point of the blocks?????
my brake has several aluminum blocks with thumbscrews which ride on a rail.
set your blocks to whatever position---and you can make a zillion perfectly duplicated bends with no further measuring---couldn't be simpler.
brake is a very low end Tapco( "windy" model)----so I assume better brakes must have a similar feature
clearly I must be missing something here????
stephen
Stephen
I have never seen the aluminum blocks you speak of.
Remember this is a rental brake.
When I have borrowed a brake from a commercial roofer we are lucky if the handles are still with the machine.
I watched a Tapco salesman display his machine a couple of years ago. He was a whiz with 3" long pieces of aluminum that didn't have to fit.
He showed us all the accessories, but the aluminum guage blocks were not one of them.
The Tapco website doesn't show any such blocks. Unless I am missing the obvious. http://www.tapcotools.com/pages/accessories.php
When bending door trim this afternoon I had 5 different bends to do. Do you have that many blocks on the brake to do complicated bends?
Rich
cargin,the blocks were part of both brakes i have bought over the years---AND they were part of the one tune up kit I bought as well.
if i want a bend5" from the edge- I set the blocks to 5 " If I want it at 12"-I set the blocks to 12"Want it at 4-1/4"---set them at 4-1/4"there are scales right on the brake---- I check there calibration every morning Before I make the first bend----but it is all VERY fast . IF the bend is gonna be less than 3" from either edge of the metal---the blocks won't reach---- but usually the bend will be more than 3" from at least ONE edge----- and i can start with THAT bend.Actually- i have more trouble remembering which side is gonna be UP and which side is gonna be down for the bends.
best wishes, Stephen
Are you talking about stops on the inside of the "C"s?http://grantlogan.net
Who got Bo Diddley's money?
that's what i am talking about.
I am pretty sure I am missing something here--- but I don't recall if I have ever encountered a situation where a little for-thought in the sequence of bends didn't allow me to use those stops a lot easier than making and fumbling with those wood blocks---------
but as i said- i am probably missing something here.
stephen
I have the same old E'cheapo type brake, has the blocks. But they slide on a 1/4" rod, no marks. How are yours marked?
BTW, have you had any luck hemming on those old brakes? I had to make some custom drip edge the other day, and the hand seamers were in play big time...
brake is a very low end Tapco( "windy" model)----
Mine too.
I think it is 25-30 years old.
How short can you turn a hem with yours?
I've been having trouble with my hemming technique lately. I'm doing something wrong and know it, but can't figure out what it is.
If by hem you mean essentially a 180 degree turn--say bending to just past 90 degrees----and then crimping it down flat to 180 degrees------- I don't really ever have to do that. what Ii DO do a lot of is bend a kick into flashing---probably somewhat less than 45 degrees--------usually it is about a half inch kick---MAYBE 3/8 " I don't knoiw if this is standard--- but I have to put the 1/2" into the jaws and clamp down----and "bend" the bigger side----if I put the bigger side in the jaws and try to bend the 1/2" kick---it will just roll past a 3/4 kick i could probably go ahead and bend outside the jaws---not real sure.stephen BTW--- yours have the same blocks--- my first brake had actual blocks--about 1"x1"x3"c which slid on rods had that brake maybe 15-16 years untill it was stolen---replaced the brake with a similar model-----the blocks on this one are more like thin "fins' or flatter,wider bars.
Stephen
Mine has the blocks on rods.
You got the hem description right. I clamp down the short side, maybe 3/8 or 1/2", in the brake and bend the long side all the way over to an acute 45* ( or is it a 135* outside bend?). Release the clamp and pull the bend back, close the clamp side, and with the 45* bend laying agianst the face, raise the brake all the way up and flatten the bend to complete it to 180*.
That is where I am having the trouble. The short side either slides up the face of the clamp side, or if I turn it around it catches on the face of the brake side as it come up and over. Either it ends up crooked or rolled looking. Screws the pooch and I have to look for some place to salvage the newly created piece of scrap.
Got to be me.
I haven't used this thing for 14-15 years and must be having a seriouse senior moment, cause I use to brake some nice tight hems.
The newer cam action brakes are sweet, but I just can't justify the $1400 cost for the small amount I use a brake. Particularly when I know I can do an equal job with what I have.
You might need a tune up. If the jaw is not clamping evenly, it might cause the problem you're describing.http://grantlogan.net
"I could have had Miss September...... I couuld have had Miss May. I could have had Miss November, but I waited for December....." ZZ Top.
I had Tapco send me a copy of the original instruction book. Following instructions, I cleaned and reset everything.
Still, either I or it got no "do right" in'm.
I'll go through it all again. Might have missed something or somethung slipped as I rest the wedges.
Thanks
after your first bend---can you turn it around with the long side UP and the short side down--- put it in the jaws and then press the lever down to flatten it??????
Stephen
I have done that, much easier if you have anthing but a j brake, to put it with jaws closed, and bring the pulls up. Much tighter hem!
I go with a 1/2" hem even on a little bit sloppy brake it works good. I put the half in the jaws, lock down, bend all the up as far as it will go, unclamp it, pull piece out, then lock the jaws down.
Set the piece on the locked jaws, with long piece aginst jaws short part facing you, the bend resting on top of the hinge , bend all the way up, let piece slide back down bend all the way up again. Should be a fairly flat hem
Dont ask me why but too many guys leave their break outside all the time and Ive used some real shilters, but I can manage to get a half inch hem out of even the worst ones, but beggars cant be choosers. I know If I paid 1400 dollars for a tool I would sure take care of it, yet brakes seem to get beaten up a lotView Image
That is exactly what I have been doing, but only using a 3/8" hem. When I start the last bend to flatten the hem the piece wants to slid up the ramped edge of the locked down clamp side. Sometimes just one end of a 10' bend will slip up and I end up with a tapered hem that looks awfull.
I never had that occurr before, but may have been using a 1/2" hem. That could be the problem. I'll try the 1/2" hem after I give the old dog another tune up.
The brake is an old Windy model Tapco, but has never been stored outside or hung up on a truck rack or wall (no smiley face bends with it). I and the friend that previously owned have both store it laying flat on a bench or large self, so I don't think it has ever been abussed.
It is the same model I learned brake work on almost 30 years ago. I used it extensively 14 years ago on a couple of room additions and never had a problem. That is why I was thinking that old age and CRS are more of a factor than the equipment <G>
Thanks
I keep recomending a 1/2" hem because I belive that when Ive tried to do something shorter the part you bend with on the brake would catch on the front edge of it and bind it all up, but with a 1/2 it can push on the face of the 1/2" part and push it flat. I hope any of this helps, in the end I never had a reason why I really needed a shorter hem so I stayed with what workedView Image
That was the ticket.
The 1/2" hem worked on a short 3' scrap I tried last night. I'll try a 10' piece this weekend.
I knew it was an operator problem, but couldn't get my mind out of the rut it was in.
Thanks.
Great, glad I could help, good luckView Image
Hey danno,
and all,
does any one have a picture of how to get this Hem on a Windy break?
I'm just not getting the description ( I can be a little dense ).
I have the Windy / Tapco and was told it won't make a hem! I dug out the original instructions and it doesn't even talk about a hem.
I'm basically self taught, purchased a break for my own property, R.T.F.B. and bent up some cheap coil stock to learn.
I have tried a 3/4" hem by bending as far as it will go, reverse the piece and close the jaw on the acute angle ( crush it closed ) to complete the hem.
Except for short pieces, it turns out like ####!
Any one have pictures or a link? I'd love to figure this one out.
Bill
If you had a picture of your brake I think I could tell ya if it will make a hem or not, I never used one that wouldnt. I dont own one so I cant go out and take pictures but If I can git away with it I can try to take a picture at work tomrrow, I spent all day on the brake today and probably will for the next two, no promisses because I dont usually take pics at my "regular job".View Image
Thanks danno,
the video shows a newer style brake, one of those would be great! I think it's the one Sphere is talking about ( thanks Sphere! )
I'll attempt to attach a picture of my break
If that doesn't work use this link
http://www.tools-plus.com/tapco-windysp.html
Bill
O wow man Ive never run into one of those I can see the dissadvantages right away. And here I was always b!tchin about our brake. Do you use a brake a lot maybe you could sell it and move up, Im just thinkin out loud. I honestly wouldnt want one of those even if it was real cheap, cause I know I would get frustrated like you are.View Image
What he has, was the break us older people grew up with. It's not bad, if you don't try to do everything with it the pro series does.
Hemming is possible with this break. You have to put the 1/2" in the jaws, then lift up as far as possible. Pull the piece out, inslaa between the jaws and lock. It is easier said than done. Old timers never hemmed anything,v waste of material!
hey Danno,
no I don't bend a lot of metal.
I'm weekend warrior and got this break about 6 years ago for my own stuff. House, shed, workshop, a little stuff for mom and dad....
Never even tried to make any money with it, just save a little and learn something in the process.
It was $400 - $500 less than the ( Pro models ).
Like Frammer said it's not bad if you don't try to do everything with it.
But you never know where your going to pick up a new trick that isn't in the instruction book.
I have used Frammers suggestion of closing the jaw on the piece to complete the hem. it works ok for short pieces, but 8 or 10 footers....not so much.
Thanks for your help,
Bill
I found this video for you guy does two hems in begining
http://www.tapcotools.com/pages/video_3C_fascia_trim.php
View Image
Edited 6/26/2008 7:43 pm ET by danno7x
I have the Tapco Pro19 with the two position jaw, but it is up at a job site and I have not been there in over a week, maybe next week I could get a few pics.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Edited 6/26/2008 8:52 pm ET by Sphere
By the 2 position jaw, do you mean the kidney bean shaped hole for the hinge pin?
I've got a pro14 so I'm assuming it's the pro19's little brother.
I've got a pro14 so I'm assuming it's the pro19's little brother.
I'm guessing the difference is the throat depth.http://grantlogan.net
"I could have had Miss September...... I couuld have had Miss May. I could have had Miss November, but I waited for December....." ZZ Top.
Yeah, thats it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
That's a good idea. I think I 'll try that next time.
I take a piece of brake metal and hem the edge 1/2". I then make the marks for all the different spots I need to bend, front and back. Make square line across the whole piece, bout 2" wide. Slide over each end and transfer all marks on the correct side and slide in the brake. Use over and over. Have ones I use for fascia on every job.
The other thing I do is not to make marks at the end of pieces. I make my marks about 4' apart. About 2' from center both ways. No reason to walk back and forth, straight is straight.The bad news is you've done exactly the right things to be exactly where you are today.
"IdahoDon 1/31/07"
bstcrpntr
I do like you do and mark out a story stick with the lines squared across.
Then I cut it in half. Bend it up as a prototype. If it fits then my story stick is a go.
If it needs to be tweeked then I start over.
I do not claim that the blocks is the only way to bend metal.
I still use a story stick like you do and get out my tape and measure.
It just depends on the situation. The blocks really help if I don't have a good table to do the marking on.
But none of the brakes I have access to, have the Hazlett blocks. I use aluminum brakes and brakes at the plumber's shop.
Happy bending to y'all.
Rich
I've done the same thing with blocks for cases where you have an up bend to gauge from. Where you have a cut or hemmed edge, or a down bend, I make up blocks with a cutout corner. I did a set for making the pans for the copper roof. This works especially well on my Tapco Max, because it has that rubber/plastic flap that tries to push the work piece out at you while you're clamping, and it has that loose sheet stainless piece covering the upper jaw. You need to push inward against both of them while clamping to get an accurate result.
Hemming I do like it shows in the video. Finishing a long hem by clamping takes more oompf than I can muster.
-- J.S.
John
Thanks for the reply and confirmation of the method.
The block method works very well with an upbend. The block is captive and you can put pressure on the material to stay into position. Especially if you are working alone.
I have been busy so I haven't had time to reply.
Rich
The block method works very well with an upbend.
What other type bend can you make?http://grantlogan.net
Come on guys. If you're Festing, it's time to pay up. $85.00? Half of you have already wasted that much on beer and p0rn this week already.
I skimmed this thread but didn't catch anyone using the mark and snip method.I understand that on copper or other pricey stuff you don't want to sacrifice the material.but I just mark one end flop over end and snipp the marks.this offsets the alu. a bit pull the jaws so they are close one end will have the snip offset up closest to you use your fingers to reverse it and you have 2 positive stops for registration.push both against the bottom jaw and viola I actually learned this from a brake manual many moons ago....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
All
Bumping my own thread
I did alot of bending today with this technique and I thought I should revive the thread for people who are new to BT.
Rich
Hey-where were you last week when I bent some fascia.:)I saw the thread before, but when it came time the sparks didn't jump across in the memory vault.Thanks for the reminder.
Craig
Hey-where were you last week when I bent some fascia.:)
That's the story of my advice giving and fishing life, I should have been there last week. LOL
Rich