I am gonna be putting a suspended ceiling in my basement office. Room is 12 x 28, but it has a beam at the halfway point that I can’t hide in the ceiling (too low) so technically 2 separate rooms at 12 x 13-ish for measuring purposes. Floor joists above are open web, I need to keep the grid about 3-4″ below the joists to maintain 7′-6″ clear height. I’m planning on a 2×2 grid, off-the-shelf Armstrong tiles.
Any tips and tricks you guys want to toss my way? I have never installed a suspended ceiling before so I need all the help I can get.
Replies
I'd start by drawing a scaled plan so that you can get an idea what the cuts will be like in advance. Try to lay it out so that no piece is less than 6". Use the drawing to lay out the lighting at the same time whether you're using recessed cans or lay-in fluorescents.
If there are valves, junction boxes, etc. on the existing ceiling, mark them on the plan and keep it for future reference.
If you won't be done painting before the ceiling goes up, at least cut in the wall paint at the perimeter of the room before putting in the wall angle. One less thing to go around later.
Use a laser level to set the wall angle and grid.
Stand back and actually look at the grid before you get too much of it up. I am constantly seeing it out of level. Drives me nuts.
Keep a couple of extra pieces of tile and wrap them in plastic so they don't get scratched or covered in dirt and dust.
Make sure the grid is square, even a little out makes installing tile tough. If your install high hat lights in the ceiling, use a backer (3/8" ply wood) to spread the weight.
De-grease the tops of the grid or it wipes on to the face of the tile when space is tight.
It will be a little tricky getting the tiles in with so little clearance, so plan ahead.
CeilingMax (I think it is) makes a 2 piece plastic grid that allows you to have NO extra clearance, so you don't lose any head room.
If headroom is a concern, it's worth checking out.
http://www.acpideas.com/index.cfm?XlinkID=13
They are always coming up with something new!
Jon, Armstrong used to (and I would think they still do) have a great instruction sheet packed in each tile pkg. Or check on line at their site.
Are using a shadowline tile? The kind that drops down below the grid a bit?
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I haven't decided what tile to use yet, but the shadowline is most appealing.
Lighting will be drop-in troffers.
If you use the shadow line tiles be sure to buy a reveal cutting tool. They ussually have them at an accoustical tile and grid center. When you make you edge cut , you use the tool to create a shadow line on the cut edge.
Jon, there are a couple ''tools'' as Dave mentions that help you do the dropdown cut for the shadowline tile.
It is possible to use just a utility knife. I hope I can explain this, a picture would do it so much better.
Cut your border tile (measure on the face of the tile-at the line that it will sit in the grid) about 3/8's wider. (edge of cross tee to edge of wall mold-plus3/8's.
Using your fingers as a guide on the bottom of the tile, slit through the edge of the tile at the same drop down depth thats on the tile. (The tool you can buy -block of wood with knife blade fastened to it-will do this).
Put the tile in it's space in the grid. Hold it down from the top while you run your sharp knife blade into the tile-using the wall mold as your guide. You just want to cut deep enough to get to your previous cut-completing your rabbit cut.
Lift the tile up, flick out the scrap that you cut away. Lower it back in and look at your perfect cut.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Good visual image on your description.
We use the block/blade tool most of the time. We have one guy cutting and another installing tiles most of the time, so 98% of the cuts are called to the cut man. He does it all at the cut station and hands up the finished tile. It keeps the mess in one place, and we only need to drop the tile in once.
Working alone, your method saves a bunch of trips up and down a ladderr or scaffold.
It also takes the weirdness of the wall and out of the equation using the wall mold as the guide
Wish I had the balance for stilts. A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Wish I had the balance for stilts.
There are days I just wish I had the balance to remain upright!
I wish I had the balance to remain sane.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
That too.
But me, Alice, and the rabbit have some goooood days once in a while
One foot in front of the other I don't usually have too much trouble with.
As long as it's on the ground.
Doesn't take much to get too high....A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
There's a product called CeilingMax which installs flush to the joists where headroom is at a premium. The local HD sells it. Take a look here:
http://www.acpideas.com/index.cfm?XlinkID=13
It works quite well and even looks pretty good. Since each hanger is attached every 16", it's important that the joists be in plane. If they are not, you can run furring strips across the joists and shim as needed. Even with furring strips, you will lose less headroom than with a traditional dropped ceiling.
Jon
Pretty much all the other advice is correct but here's a link for Armstrong Ithink it will be a big help to you
http://www.armstrong.com/resclgam/na/ceilings/en/us/prod_detail.asp?itemId=44839.0
Zeeya
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as you're going toss in the occasional tile to make things even more square and hold it there.
get one of the screw hanger drivers U chuck into a cordless drill.
even with a level ... a line helps. So get the cheap install kit ... comes with the plunger type line clamp / holder ... might even have that driver bit in it.
I like to set the grid 2x4 first ... then add the 2' dividers.
you'll still be adding some of the shorts to set those coupla "square check" tiles as U go.
and the tiles with the drop down reveal look way nices. HD even has some stock tiles ... 2x2 ... with an embossed 1x1 design on it ... really helps disguise the track.
and first time around ... wrap the wires a bit loose ... easier to go back and tighten to lift any sags that come with the additional weight.
2 guys speeds things up ... one setting and one handing.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I've got a few ideas. Please feel free to ignore all of them.
First, the drop around the beam. Often, I've bent aluminum trim to use for the vertical face on the drop. It's far faster than creating a gridwork of materials and looks okay for most basements that are using a dropped ceiling.
Be careful to lay out so you don't end up with slivers for the edge pieces. Your 13' layout could result in an edge piece of either 6" (bad) or 18" (good). The industry standard calls for the edge pieces to be at least half of the unit sizes being installed. It's not always possible, but plan carefully if you want a look that is pleasing to the discriminating eye.
Leveling the thing is easy in a basement. I use the bottom of the subfloor as my "laser level". Essentially, I just butt my tape to the underside of the floor above me and measure down to get my wall angle lines installed. I never pull out a level for any of this process. After running around setting all the wall angles the exact distance to the subfloor above, I set all the wires and measure down to the exact spot I want to bend them. I bend them at 90 (maybe a tad more) degree and loosely hang the "mains". Remember to get a slot in the main exactly at the spot where your critical edge dimension is supposed to be.
One last tip I learned in apprentice school. If you have a long distance and want to pull a line, it will sag unless you get a very strong and lightweight line. Back in the old days, lasers were many, many thousands of dollars so they pulled lines instead. They suggested dental floss because it was very light but very strong. You only have a 12' run, so you don't really need a line. Your eye will detect even the slightest bow.
Jeff is right...after getting the grid up, dont' get too carried away twisting all the wires till after you've got all the grid in and you can easily see of there are any dippsy doodles.
The biggest problem with only 3" is the short wires. You'll probably want to anchor them to the top chord of the truss to give them a little more length. This aids in the adjustment phase. If you must screw them into the bottom chords, you'll be far ahead of the game to get them located exactly over the hole in the grid that they will connect too. This will ensure that they hang vertical instead of at an angle which makes the insertion of the tiles more difficult.
I've installed these ceilings as close as 2" to the joists. It's tricky but doable.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"The industry standard calls for the edge pieces to be at least half of the unit sizes being installed."
I think this is always possible, isn't it, assuming rectangular cieling. I know I always cringe when I see a strip of ceramic tile 1" wide in a hotel bathroom, for example.
Yes, it's always possible in a simple rectangle. Once you start adding offsets though, all bets are off. Then, you have to pick your poison unless you get lucky. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Get fire rated t-bar instead of the home duty. Fire rated is a much stiffer product and clicks together.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
I always get the commercial fire rated grid materials too. They are much easier to work with and get straight. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Good advice so far. I'll only add a tip or two.
Main tee and cross tee grids have snap lock hole at 6" centers. after installing the wall mold cut and hang all the main tees from the same wall and running inthe same dircection. Mains are normally set at 4' o.c..
Lock in your 4' cross tees as you go. This help keep things squared and spaced correctly.
Buy a roll of jet line. It is a orange colored light weight line used to keep things level. Push it up behind the wall mold next to a scre or nail holding up the wall mold. Tie it off so it won't pull out. Now strectch it to the opposite wall mold. It is like pulling any string line, only this stuff is so light it won't sag and will stretch several feet. Pull a couple of them perpendicular to the main tees. These are your level points that will keep everything in plane and save you a lot of needless adjustments later. (I predate rotorary lazers by several years)
There are now low profile lay in florecent fixture that will fit a 3 oe 4" drop. If it is an office/drawing room they may be better than can type fixtures. given you low ceiling.
Got more specific on the mechanics of an install if you need them. I have done over 100K sq. ft. of these things, both comercially and residential.
Level and square. Use a laser level to mark the walls for the edge pieces. Rigorously maintain level as you install the grid -- if something gets out of level and you "compensate" farther down then you develop waves.
Figure out how out of square the room is and plan so you won't end up with gaps in one corner. Make sure the grid goes in square -- both relative to the longest wall and relative to other pieces in the grid. Fudge out-of-square on the short walls. A scale drawing is a good idea.
Like with floor tile, try to have better than 1/2 tile all around. Consider the "first impression" view points and make sure there won't be any odd-cut pieces that are sorely obvious from those vantage points.