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Tips on staining interior trim

| Posted in Construction Techniques on June 19, 2005 10:47am

Hi all, have some questions I’m hoping to get insight on by some painting pros.  I’m starting to embark on building my own home and wondering, is spraying interior trim for stain and sealer the way to go for best results?  Reason is, I want to do it fast and efficient yes; but quality is more important.  I go and tour new homes for sale and see beautiful stainwork on the trim and doors; and would like to get the same results.  I’m going to be using birch for all trim and solid pine doors.  Can anyone recommend good methods/techniques, good quality sprayers, (that don’t break the bank) and stain manufacturers.  Regarding the doors; I recall from my high school shop classes that pine was a bit trickier to stain in that the knots/heavier grain took the stain differently than the rest of the lumber.  Back then I wiped the stain on/off with a rag. Was this just a rookie thing or is this still a consideration in staining doors?? Any help is definetly appreciated…

thanks!

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  1. RW | Jun 20, 2005 12:19am | #1

    To answer in pieces

    Spray equipment is the way to go if you have any cares at all about time consumption. In most scenarios, it converts days with a brush into mere hours.

    Stain can be sprayed with just about anything. By that I mean airless, cup gun, HVLP . . . but spraying stain is messy and is sticky and will create quite the little cloud in the place, so wear a $5 tyvek suit and a mask. I'm going to argue that the more control you have over the gun the better off you are, and using that argument rule out the airless just from the volume argument. But you still want to wipe everything down with rags, and no stain job is going to look like you're envisioning if you don't do the prep, i.e. sanding & cleaning. Makers? Theres a lot of good stuff out there. I like Sherwins BAC stain, and I really like Old Masters. Both those on ease of use & coverage.

    Both birch and pine can blotch; pine is much more prone to do so. I don't think I would sweat the birch too much. Insert "natural beauty of wood" speech here. The pine, there's "conditioners" sold to help alleviate the blotching, concoctions doctored up by painters of yore, but honestly, wiping the door down with mineral spirits shortly before you shoot it does a great job. Or you could look into a stain that is either entirely or primarily a dye based rather than a pigment based stain. Valspar comes to mind. The dyes will penetrate more evenly and contribute less to uneven coloring.

    As to finishes, everyone has their own slant, but I bet 99% of the painters out there use some variation of lacquer. It's a whole separate essay, but for house trim, you want easy and durable. If you haven't sprayed it before, I think I'd tell you this one is really worth hiring out. And I'd probably steer you towards a precat or even a CAB acrylic lacquer. I'm also a fan of waterbornes, and in some states, that's your only option due to VOC compliance. I'd also hire that out. There are some fantastic performing waterbornes on the market but they're not quite as easy as solvents to apply, and if you don't already own the equipment, it isn't worth it to you to buy it for one house.

    "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

  2. Bear | Jun 20, 2005 03:32am | #2

    I think that all staining should be done with a stain pad or rag. It is to easy to apply and wipe off the extra to mess up a spray gun.

    Consider purchasing a HVLP spray gun. If you buy a turbine unit, which doesn't require a compressor you will spend about $500 to $800 for a good piece of equipment that will give you the results that you are looking for. You can purchase a HVLP conversion gun, that works off your compressor for as little as $50. You will need a good size compressor with a moisture separator and will not be as portable as a turbine unit.

    Look in the yellow pages or on the web for a coatings dealer near you. You will what to use a pro material like Target coatings or Mohawk. You should use their stains and a pre cat lacquer.

    It sounds like it might be some leg work and money to get the results I think you are looking for, but you may be looking at this trim for the rest of you life and will kick yourself everyday if you don't do it right.

    Bear

  3. Notchman | Jun 20, 2005 03:53am | #3

    A couple of years ago I built a house with all natural wood trim...mostly west coast Red Alder, but some Maple and pine, etc., depending on the location in the home.

    The weather was snotty, we didn't have a good place to do all the prep and staining, nor a dry dust-free room for finishing.

    It was right before Christmas and my cabinet maker was looking for some sidework for a couple of his guys. They picked up my order at the Yard,  prepped, stained and finished a boatload of the stuff in 2 weekends in their shop, delivered it to us in his delivery van and the total bill was just under $1300, including the finishing materials.

    Saved us a LOT of time and hassle and the stuff was very nicely done.

  4. FNbenthayer | Jun 20, 2005 05:07am | #4

    A coat of 1/2 - 3/4lb cut shellac prior to staining will promote even staining.

     

     

     

     

    The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
    - Fyodor Dostoyevski

  5. BruceM16 | Jun 20, 2005 05:40am | #5

    Starting on the finish work for the home we built almost entirely by ourselves, I too have obsessed over taking the course the pros take in getting top quality equipment so that I too, with a little bit of practice, do the perfect job. But the problem, of course, is the cost of equipment that you'll use one time. And this is for more than painting/finishing.....it also includes such disciplines as laying hardwood floor, drywalling, carpeting, and so on. What I do is compare the challange (and my skill) in doing the work with the cost of renting equipment vs. buying the equipment...and compare this to hiring a local whom I know will use his equipment and do a good job.

    Without getting into the other building disciplines and in reference to your question, we have decided to hand paint/hand finish. With good brushes and good prep, my results have been quite good so far. But yes, it'll take a good deal more time, and the pros you speak with will constantly remind you of this, as their training says that time is money and too much time is unprofitable....and I don't blame them. But we're not in it for profit, and have simply taught ourselves to not be in a hurry and to take our time.

    Hope this helps

    BruceM

  6. User avater
    Dinosaur | Jun 20, 2005 09:41am | #6

    Recommend you build yourself some drying racks outta 1x3 for a starter. I also recommend you forget spraying and wipe the stain on with a bristle-faced foam pad. You will cut your stain consumption by 50% or better and make a hell of a lot less mess.

    Let the stain dry on the wood as is without wiping. Once it's dry, hand rub each piece with steel wool until it looks and feels the way you want it to. Do two coats if necessary to get the depth of colour you want.

    For the pine, use the conditioner before the stain.

    If you're going to topcoat instead of oil, buy the best brushes you can find, and don't rush the work. Have plenty of light to work by and keep the temperature and humidity as constant as you can in the circumstances.

    Dinosaur

    A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...

    But it is not this day.

    1. Sancho | Jun 20, 2005 11:05pm | #7

      Yep stain with a rag. Make sure you buy enough stain from the same manufacturer to prep / stain the trim the same time. 

      They (minwax) makes a combo stain and poly thats fairly easy to apply. Dont know if it will stand up to the abuse though but something to look into.

      I use a lvlp from accuspray http://www.compliantspraysystems.com this gun does a very nice job and can be run off a small framing compressor , I use my 4 gal 1 1/2 hp compressor. They also sell turbine powewred guns to.

      Another good site with good info is

      http://www.homesteadfinishing.com Jeff who owns the site is very helpful and he sell equipment and finishes. He will even set the gun up for the finish you are going to use.

      good luck I hope this helps.   

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  7. BryanSayer | Jun 21, 2005 12:39am | #8

    Remember that the color/shade you will end up with is the one AFTER the first coat of clear finish is put on, not the stain coat. If you need/want to tweak the color after that point, the TransTint dyes in whatever clear coat you are using works well. Just be sure to have a good set of test pieces to play with, in all the types of wood you are using.

  8. Egg | Jun 21, 2005 05:05am | #9

    On the pine (soft) definitely use a stain control.  It is an extra coat, takes a little more time but if you have any question if you should do the extra step try it on a piece of pine, half with and half without plus stain.  You will get a lot less blotching and the difference is tremendous.  Another positive note is that you use about a third to half of the stain that you would without the stain control; although this savings is insignificant.  I like the rag method and unless you are building a 7,000 square foot house it does not take much time at all.  Definitely do not use the one step stain sealer products, nearly all look like you were trying to avoid the extra effort.  The birch (hard) should not need it, stain control.  No matter what, completely finish several pieces of both species with the products you intend to use to make sure you are satisfied with the results.

  9. DanH | Jun 21, 2005 05:14am | #10

    Many years ago, I built a computer desk (that I'm using now) out of birch-faced plywood. It turned out well (even if the diskette storage shelves have now been presssed into other uses), but I never did get the stain the way I wanted.

    I turns out that birch doesn't take stain well at all, and I ended up with a rather blotchy and undistinguished finish -- good enough for my use, but not what I'd hoped for.

    In general, applying stain is a bit of an art. Some stains you apply and then don't touch, some you wipe off after several minutes, some you wipe off immediately. There are also issues of whether/how you seal the wood before staining, how you treat knots, etc.

    I'd recommend that you practice a bit before setting out to do an entire house's worth of woodwork.

  10. JerBear | Jun 21, 2005 01:51pm | #11

    Use the sealers on pine or any of the other blotchy stain woods. Always always make a test board, all the way to the finish coat. That way the customer can see what they're getting and they can feel that they are part of the process and there will be no real surprises. Mark the test piece on the back, the wood, stain, finish, how many coats etc., then file it away for future use.

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