A friend is interested in putting a wood burning stove in her small cabin.
Wondering if any of you know of an extremely small wood stove that could be set close to a corner (sheetrock, frame, stucco). Or suggestions on a heat barrier that would allow a very close instalation?
Thanks in advance!
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Replies
Jotul has a very small unit, but I don't know for sure the clearances. I think it is still 36"
The units intended for installation in mobile hiomes and modular homes are generally designed for closer clearance to combustables and small spaces and have an adaptation for outside air intake, since a small tight dwelling will use up it's oxygen supply faster and wendanger occupants. same safety factor for wood pellet stoves.
The general principles behind reducing clearances are not always recognized by local authorities, burt hthey tend to get approved after testing with underwriteers time after time.
The standaard is 36" for a normal stove burning wood or coal. Many manufacturers add a heat deflection shield to the back and often the undersides of it, about one to two inches away from the stove. This is normally a steel plate about 12-14 GA. This reflects heat back towards the stove and it allows the hot air in that two inch space to flow up and out the top while being replace by natural convection cuyrrents of cooler air off the floor.
These heat shields allow the stove to be placed to within 18" of combustables to the rear. A few have an optional side reflector also.
Now take that principle a step further. Add another site built shield to the wall itself. A CMU panel is common nowdays with tile set to face it and look good. Suspend it from the wall an inch or two with a minimum 2" air space at top and bottom.
To suspend and mount it, we used to use porcelan fence post insulators for electric fencing. Now, there are harder ceramic spacers available.
I have also done it with metal heat shield on the wall using plumbing nipples with screws through their middles to suspend the mount off the wall.
Don't forget the floor protection.
12" to either side of door openning, around sides and back, and 18" to front of it
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What piffin said, plus have a care for the stove pipe too.
Waterford's smallest stove, the Leprechaun model, might suit. It used to come with a rear heat shield, maybe still does. Also, you can get it from Lehman if there's no local dealer.
you might want to look into soap stone stoves
Be warm
andy
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How small is the cabin? A problem can be too much heat in a small area. Pellet stoves or cone stoves have good heat control. Regarding clearances I recently bought a pacific energy stove, too big for your freinds purposes, but it has a mobile home rating, with 9" clearance to the back and 14" to the sides.
Smaller is better than bigger.
Check around ,there are wood stoves on the market that only need 6" from combustibles.
Check these little guys out...
cabelas
We bought a pretty small woodstove for our old cabin that we never installed, so I can't tell you how good it is. I was thinking about selling it, but I think we'll install it in the woodshop once it gets built. It was called a Dovre 400 or something like that. McGuckins used to sell them, maybe they still do. It is EPA rated and has a glass front, which is nice. The waterford referred to above is even smaller, but may not have a glass front. I think that Colorado may have some rule about EPA rated fireplaces/stoves, but they don't always enforce it rurally. Anyway, our cabin was only 486 sq ft, so I understand the need for SMALL!
We just bought a fireplace from a really great shop in Evergreen called The Energy Experts. The guy had all kinds of cool stuff that I hadn't seen anywhere else. I know they sell stuff all over the state and even in neighboring states. They have some pretty unique stuff. He carries A LOT of differnent manufacturers. Ask for Mike O'Dowd. He is the owner.
http://www.heatingexperts.com/
Thanks, Paula.
Our friend who is looking for the stove is also Paula and is from Boulder...
I'll pass your message along.You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
In Boulder? Oh perfect. I'm not sure if McGuckins carries the dovre anymore, but Indian Peaks Stove in Rollinsville does. I think that the stove and spa shop on 28th St carries the small waterford stoves.
I think that the dovre stoves might be made by someone else now. Too bad we decided to keep ours. It is still on the pallet and everything. I was really close to selling it.... I just know that someday we'll build the woodshop above the garage and a woodstove will be needed.
That place in Evergreen is a bit of a haul from Boulder, but not too bad. The guy does have some unique stuff.
Paula
I should have been more clear: She's FROM Boulder, now lives down here. She goes to Boulder often enough, though.You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
Brother in Ft. Collins has a little cast stove. I'll ask next time I email him. I have used concrete board spaced out with chunks of drywall (or leftover concrete board). I usually do the 2" thing plus 2" off the floor to allow for convection.
What is the floor made of?
I have also used metal "J" molding for drywall to "edge" the board. Cut 45 degrees off each side of center with snips, bend, fit, skimcoat. I even tried some latex paint a couple of years ago and the heat never bothered it. Got get to Boulder, dodge the hippies, and wander through McGuckin's Hardware. Need a day or two though. Tyr
Tyr,
The hippies are gone. Haven't been in Boulder for a while. Too expensive and too many rules.
McGuckins is still there. I'll be there this afternoon. Need anything? I keep thinking we should have a Breaktime McGuckins fest. There are a few Boulderites on the board.
Paula
No more Republic of Boulder? Have a nephew there, and have done some work for others, but walking down Pearl St. I would swear it was a flashback to the '60's. Getting something from McGuckins would require spending money--walking through and drooling just gets my shirt wet...... Try
Floor is concrete. Thanks for the input.You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
Years ago I was digging around for information about wood stoves. I'm operating fromemory so you will need to confirm the figures.
You can install heat shields on walls and drop the clearances quite a bit. A fireproof composition board screwed to the wall cuts the necessary clearances to something like 24". As opposed to the normal 36". If you install spacers allowing an inch of space and open to air flow bottom to top on top of the board and a sheet metal shield you can cut the space to 12" if I remember right.
idea being that the sheet steel blocks radiant heat which then has to reradiate across a constant air flow, induced by the thermo-siphon, to the fire resistant composition board. Which can stand a higher temperature than normal wall coverings.
I will try to dig around some sites to see if I can find similar information in a more definitive form. Seems this information I got from a site like Mother Earth News or similar rustic advice source.
I understand that stoves that are rated as 'mobile home' or 'manufactured home' approved radiate less heat toward any vulnerable walls and can generally be safely mounted a bit closer than not approved models.
Thanks for the input.
I just installed a new Vermont Castings "Aspen", their smallest current model. Set into a corner at a 45, they recommend 14" from the stove back corners to the standard wall. Surprise to me.You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
sometimes, a corner installation can be approved for slightly wless clearance because it is only one small corner of the stoove that is nigh the wall, and the flatter radiating surfaces are throwing their heat at an angle to that wall while most of the stove side is further than the corner point closest to the wall.
See also my post immediately above to 4lorn
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Placing a fireproof non-combustable surface directly on a frame wall does nothing to reduce clearances. It is still considered ####combustable wall.
It is when you provide that inch or two of air flow that you reduce the clearance by half and that, only when the local authorites recognize the principle. So if you have a noermal stove, the heat shield on wall would reduce clearance to 18" from 36". If you have a shielded stove that is rated for 18" clearance and place the heat shield on the wall also, the clearance is now reduced to 9"
Tjhe reason you need the cooling airflow and not direct application of the fireproof surface is that the surface will heat up and transfer that heat by conduction to the studs behind. Normally, those studs will not heat up to the flash point, but over a time of repeated overheatings, the wood will change chemically to where it is charcoaled and will eventually have a much lower flash temperature, making a spontaneous combustion within the wall a possibility.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
So if the studs are steel? Just curious. As a welder turned contractor I'm no stranger to steel, arcs, heat and fusion. Not all that simple to transfer heat through a 4" drywall screwhead (minimal area to heat), past 2" of say 2X2 Durock spacers that are isolated in a space constantly being convection cooled (cool being relative) but there would be a "current" of air, and then predict a wood stud would demonstrate charcoaling? Remember even with wood studs, THOSE are covered with at least 1/2" gyp board before the spaced out Durock goes on.
Now I could set up a sample of this, hit the screw head with my oxy/acetylene torch, turn it bright red and see what the wood does around the screw. But I probably won't. I even have a pyrometer to measure the heat of the screw.
I've seen my stove get deep cherry red (cooler than bright red) a few times. I had firebrick on the bottom and not quite 1/2 way up the side. The fact that the stove is a cat magnet and that they will curl up under it means to me that no excessive heat is going toward the floor. Yeah, heat rises and radiates.
Whether the local inspector understands all this is another question. I couldn't even get them to confirm "non combustable" would apply to the concrete walls of the foundation when I was going to put the stove in a basement corner. They pass the buck to whatever the manufacturer specifies.
Maybe I'll surf around and see if info exists on the degrees of heat it would take for wood to ignite (probably varies by species and moisture content) and how much heat it takes to charcoal wood. And this would be accomplished by heating a recessed screwhead covered with mud!
Maybe the way to go here is to use some of those hidden deck fastening systems where a screw never penetrates the surface like EB*TY! Tyr
Sounds like a non-combustable wall to me if it is a concrete basement wall or a steel studded wall with fire-rated rock on it.
I believe that the combustion temp/flash point for wood is around 410 - 425°F and can drop to less than 300° after multiple overheating experiences.
You have given me a vision of your cat bursting into flames and running around the house after napping under a red-hot stove, LOL. The greatest reason, in my thinking, for the fire protection on the floor is that hot embers will fall out of the openned door and onto the floor, sometimes un-noticed.
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No cat running around in flames. No question regarding the floor. I happened to have concrete. With this old Earth stove with the slant-back front more smoke comes out than sparks.
At one time--different install--I built a frame of 2X6's, covered with plywood, then mortared in solid brick pavers. That stove had alot of fire brick on its bottom too but you better believe I was carefully checking any heat radiating from the bottom. The cats just confirmed my observations on stove #2.
They did cause me to consider outside combustion air in the future. That could have a slidegate on it in super cold climates. See, I built a cat door through a 2X6 wall and even though the flap closes, when the stove is burning there is a very noticable draft from cat door to stove. Undoubtedly combustion air.
I didn't realize how good pinon pine was for firewood until I agreed to share a full semi trailer of lodge pole pine with some buds. That took a lot of cutting and stacking for the time it lasted. Must just not kick out the BTU's. It reminded me of the wood used for kitchen matches. Poof! My brother hauled back slabs of hardwood from Minnesota and it worked great as overnight fuel after the stove was already burning the pinon.
I could use 3 to 5 cords of wood a winter. My cuts from remodeling work all went in the stove too. Radiant heat is kind of addicting. Tyr
If you live in pinon country, you might also try the other great native firewood species: juniper and black locust.
In our area we don't cut much of the juniper since the trees rarely die. Due to drought and pine beetles, we have a billion dead pinon. The locust is great firewood (great fence posts, too. Very rot resistant.), but comes in small diameter pieces.You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
Try googling for 'yacht stoves'.
Most burn alcohol or some other safe fuel, but some burn wood. For example: http://www.peluke.com/Soapstone_and_Tile_Fireplaces/soapstone_and_tile_fireplaces.html
This Co. makes very compact wood burning stoves.