Replies

1. 
   Davo304 | Mar 24, 2002 10:22pm | #1

    Kind of sounds like a "cop-out" to me.

   Many, many homes have gutters attached. PA, MI, MN, NY, are all states that have a cold northern climate during winter...many have gutters attached. What about your neighbors nearby? What is on their house?

    At the very least, you could have "rainhandlers" installed. They are basically slats that break up the waterflow and divert it away from your house.  Or you could have gravel or stone  or mulch placed near your run-off areas to catch the water and minimize the mud mess. You could even have a few ground catch basins installed to channel away the ground run-off...Or you could simply have gutters installed.

   What type of roofing do you have, slate, asphalt, metal?  It really shouldn't matter much so long as you have a fascia board that you can attach the gutter to.

   Did your contractor put down a layer of "ice shield" near your eaves? This is a rubber type membrane that is 3 feet wide and comes in rolls approx. 60 feet long. In many areas, (of which I thought included Maine) it is a code requirement that such membrane be installed on roof eaves...the purpose being to protect against  possible water damage that can occur due to ice damming.

   The use of roof aprons that gutters snap into will further guard against water backup under the eaves. But to use roof aprons, the first starter course row of shingles would have to be removed and re-installed afterwards.

   Providing you have a well insulated roof, the possibilty of ice damming is further reduced.  Installing gutters would eliminate the ground mess.

   Contact another local contractor and seek his/her advice.  Unless he/she can give you a really good reason why not to use gutters, plus a good alternative as to how to control the ground mess, get gutters installed by someone knowlegable in your area.

   Davo. 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/24/2002 3:24:35 PM ET by Davo

2. 
   Fred_Lugano | Mar 24, 2002 10:52pm | #2

   Dear Jeff,

   I'm suspicious of builders who fear excessive roof ice in the new homes they build.

   Most houses greatly benefit from gutters. If you have trouble next winter, get the builder to fix them AND the ice dam problem.

   Regards, Fred

   Fred@weatherization.com

1. 
   jhausch | Mar 25, 2002 01:41am | #3

   without a doubt, gutters should not be a problem if the home was built properly.  As you probable know, the cause of an ice dam is when the overhang stays cold, but the area directly above the living space does not.  The melting water hit the part that stays frozen, yada, yada, yada.

   check this out, the ice dam animator 'splains it better than I

   http://www.certainteed.com/consumer/vent/html/v_tb001.htm

   Steelkilt Lives!

1. 
   Fred_Lugano | Mar 25, 2002 01:49am | #4

   Dear Jim,

   Haha, you're baiting with that goofy link. Remember, I'm listed on their pages. When I go to CertainTeed roofing councils, the reps hang garlic and hold up crosses, and do the short version of their venting pitch.

   Conservatively, Fred

   Fred@weatherization.com

1. 
   jhausch | Mar 26, 2002 03:17am | #7

   Fred,

   The comment was not directed at you, but rather the original poster of the message.  It is this new crappy format that suggests we reply to the last message posted rather than "all" or adding to the thread . . .

   I just thought the link did a good job of showing the "ice dam effect"

   I know that many of you have successfully built in manner that does not use a "cold roof", nor gutters; but I have more confidence in the "forgiveness" of using them.Steelkilt Lives!

1. 
   Fred_Lugano | Mar 26, 2002 06:36am | #8

   Dear Jim,

   I'm way beyond getting over excited about venting. Let me explain why I hate that link.

   You'll see the animation show 2 roofs buried in snow. The failure roof has snow all over it. The successful vented roof doesn't have a single flake on the ridge vent. A boo-boo? No, it's downright misleading. Ridge vents, particularly the nasty depressurizing baffled variety, don't work when they are buried.

   The entire logic of keeping snow from melting rapidly by venting falls to pieces b/c you get no venting until the snow melts.

   I push hard, really hard for tolerant building systems b/c I know there will always be a worse storm in the future. If you'd seen the troubles with vents that I get, you would never think of them as 'forgiving' again.

   Just showing a bit of my world, Fred

   Fred@weatherization.com

2. 
   luvmuskoka | Mar 26, 2002 04:07pm | #9

   I notice that in Northern Ontario, at least the area I visit, no homes have gutters. Generous overhangs, well sloped soil at the foundation, and surface drainage. And as in piffins post, I like the look fo no gutters.

3. 
   tjcarcht | Mar 26, 2002 04:16pm | #10

   Well at least keep in mind that this is MAINE.  I agree with the (local) contractor's assessment against hanging gutters in this area.  Winter storms typically rip them off.  What you frequently see in ME-VT-NH climates is a generous overhang (as noted) with sheet metal at the roof edge.

   T. Jeffery Clarke

   Edited 3/26/2002 9:18:41 AM ET by Jeff Clarke

   Edited 3/26/2002 9:31:16 AM ET by Jeff Clarke

2. 
   xMikeSmith | Mar 25, 2002 01:50am | #5

   i hate gutters .. and it has nothing to do with ice dams..

   any house can be designed to function perfectly well without gutters.

   .we also install and repair lots of gutters.. wooden, copper, lead-coat, galvanized and aluminum.

   our 3 houses have never had gutters.. well... except for the one problem area with two valleys intersecting...and we don't have erosion ditches.. and we don't have wet basements..

   now .. if your house was designed without generous overhangs.. well, then you may need gutters... but it is not a sign that your builder is doing you dirt.. he just may not like guttersMike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 25, 2002 03:18am | #6

   I never hang gutters except when it is absolutely necessary and it has nothing to do with my quality of workmanship. I bet most of those posting in favor of gutters and against this builder have never lived thru a Maine winter.

   Fred, sorry to know that you make enemies every where you go riding your hobby horse of vent design.

   Attachment shows what Mike is talking about with good design to direct water away from critical areas.

   Excellence is its own reward!