Replies

1. 
   CapnMac | Jul 17, 2004 12:51am | #1

   That joint's way too clean for me . . .

   Nacho spills, gravy for the french fries, the cope users--none of that ever seems to come out of the floors . . .   Let alone the water spots from the coolers . . .

   I'll make sure to have an extra one in comiseration tonight.

   Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
2. 
   dieselpig | Jul 17, 2004 12:55am | #2

   Are you talking about pulling that tile job back up again?  Uggghh.  I saw that picture in another thread, something about those great old doors, and was thinking about what a nice job that looked like.

   Gotta be honest though,  what's an "earth fault"?  How's it happen?  How's it prevented?

1. 
   kostello | Jul 17, 2004 01:03am | #4

   """""Are you talking about pulling that tile job back up again"""""

   Yeap!!!! and the insulating backerboard and start again.

   """"Gotta be honest though, what's an "earth fault"? How's it happen? How's it prevented?"""""

   i haven't got the full details from the electrician yet. the heating element is a 240v heating cable that is laid under the tiles in the adhesive. the cable has live and nuetral conductors with aa earth sheath around them. it appears that the earth is shorting to the live os something like that. i might only be milli amps but i don't like the idea of 240v shorting through the floor!!!!!

   mick ( the electricain thinks it might be a manufacturing fault!!!!!!). hes got this rather fantastic tester thing that can check out all sorts of things and it seems to be telling him that its shorting.

   i'll have more info on monday

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 17, 2004 07:30am | #12

   If it's a manufacturing fault, does British law allow you to sue the Mfgr for consequential damages? Or are you limited to 'replacement or refund only' like we are here?

   You poor bastid...I feel for ya....

   Hey--LITE BULB...

   Instead of demo-ing the whole floor and starting over, could you just lay a new cable right on the tile and new tile over that? Save your insulating backer and a good bit of time, seems to me.

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

3. 
   e2canoe | Jul 17, 2004 12:58am | #3

   I know of equipment that can send out a pulse on a cable to detect how far away a break is (reflective wave technology).  I don't know any more than that.  Ask your electrician about it.  Maybe it can help isolate where in the floor to start looking.

   I feel for you.  That is a beautiful job you did.

1. 
   kostello | Jul 17, 2004 01:05am | #5

   mick thinks that the fault is where the heating element is spliced to the cold tail.

   but i'm preparing myself for the worst just in case.

   but if its wrong its all got to come out and start again, i'll consider it tuition!!!!

1. 
   SamT | Jul 17, 2004 01:18am | #6

   Kostello,

   Now that you've paid the tuition, here's your first quiz.

   When do you test electrical components that will buried in cementious material?

   True____False___

   Man, I hope your sparkie is right.

   SamT

   Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

1. 
   kostello | Jul 17, 2004 01:33am | #7

   """Man, I hope your sparkie is right.""""

   me too

   i tested the cables as instructed by the manufacturers. you have to take and record resistance readings before the mat is laid, once its laid and the a final reading when its connected up.

   edit: you take the readings on the live and nuetral not the earth!!!

   even if the fault is in the splice we'll still be taking up tiles!!!!!

   Edited 7/16/2004 6:34 pm ET by kostello

1. 
   brownbagg | Jul 17, 2004 04:37am | #8

   get a volt ohms meter and check it yourself.

2. 
   Luka | Jul 17, 2004 05:01am | #10

   So it passed the test twice, and failed the final ?

   What happened in between times ???

   "Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet

2. 
   Luka | Jul 17, 2004 04:59am | #9

   Second question...

   What color is the sky ?

   A.___

   Q.___

   2.___

   he he he

   "Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet

4. 
   hammer1 | Jul 17, 2004 05:21am | #11

   I'd throw in some other type of electric heat before I would tear up the floor. Or look hard at the option. You would never know if that was the problem after busting things up.

5. 
   JeffBuck | Jul 17, 2004 07:46am | #13

   did ya have something like this on the job?

   Jeff

   Buck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

6. 
   kostello | Jul 25, 2004 03:54pm | #14

   just a bit of an update.

   i've found a chap who can find where the fault is without taking the whole floor up so he's booked in for the 5th august, which i'm not too happy with as i leave for the USA on the 6th and it seems o be cutting things a bit fine, but with a bit of luck and following wind it should be all sorted out before i leave.

   the other thiing is that i have just worked out the bill for this job and sent it off, in total its cost almost double what i originally thought with all the extra work so i'm hoping to get paid aswell.

   i'd better as i'm running a bit low on funds!!!

1. 
   DANL | Jul 25, 2004 09:09pm | #15

   Maybe we should pass the hat so you don't have to come back in the wheel well of the plane! ;-)

1. 
   JohnSprung | Jul 26, 2004 10:22pm | #16

   Never never ride in the wheel well of a large commercial jet.  Go freight, it's much safer and more comfortable.  ;-)

   -- J.S.

2. 
   kostello | Apr 02, 2005 10:16am | #17

   If anyones interested I can give an update on this.Before I went to Rhodefest last year I had a fault finding genius come and send the day with me.He was fantastic to watch he normally sends his time searching for faults in 50,000 volt lines underground!! He basically hooked the cable up to a signal generator and sent pulses down the line whilst listening to the floor with a very sensitive microphone and headphones for the sparks from the arcing of the fault.Well, some things are never simple. We found 4 faults that day; all in the last 3sq yards of floor. And at the end of the day there was still another fault in the floor.So in September I had 1/3 of the floor up replaced that part of matting and relaid the floor.It was still not right. As someone will no doubt be able to explain better than me one bit of floor warmed up and the rest didn't due to resistances in series etc...So after scratching our heads for a while the sparky connected the 2 heating elements up separately rather than in series and the floor heated up the other way around!We had some discussions about putting a diode on one element to get the resistance right but nothing came of that.At this point I was still owed money (£1500) but there was no intention or sign of me getting any of it.Then I it came to me. In the bath as it happens. I decided I just had to take the floor up and start again and get it right. This was fantastic as a great weight was lifted from my mind.And I wasn't even worried wether I got paid or not.So last week I took the floor up and have been relaying the tiles and matting.To top it all off without me even mentioning money they said they would pay me the balance when it was done!!