did anyone see the episode of this old house a couple of weeks ago with the italian tile setter?
i know that some of us here before have talked about cleaning grout without the water and sponge. to cut down on the pita and avoid washing out the fresh grout. i used to have to wait a while for the grout to set up a bit and then go at it with one of those wire kitchen scrubbies. and then vacuum up the dust.
well, this guy on toh floated in the wet grout, cleaned off as much of the excess as he could with the rubber float, and then sprinkled the same dry grout powder over the tiles. kind of loosely broadcast it. and then rubbed the tiles and grount lines with a dry cloth. swept that up, and then repeated the procedure with clean sawdust.
i tried it last week on a small (30 sq ft) floor and it worked perfectly. as soon as i’d finished placing the wet grout i spead about 3 handfuls of the dry over the floor and went at it, gently, with a dry piece of old bath towel.
i didn’t bother with the sawdust, ‘cuz i didn’t have any, or see the need.
after i was done sweeping and vacuuming, there wasn’t even any haze. when my helper saw it the next am, he couldn’t believe that i hadn’t even wiped it with a damp cloth.
Replies
Well, I just learnt sumpin'.
I gotta admit, when I read your post, I was ready to reply with "Load o' Hooey".
But I checked over at the John Bridge tile forum, and this is a long-accepted method. Seems to be used mostly when you want/need to get the grout joints even with the top edge of the tile -- full up to the top.
I found out that old-timers used to do lots of marble floors that way.
Thanks for the lesson!
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=68556&highlight=sawdust
(edited to add the link to JohnBridge)
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Edited 4/8/2009 7:46 pm ET by YesMaam27577
no "lesson" intended. just sharing my experience.
i've gotten a lot out of this forum over the past few years, both in working knowledge/best practice terms and entertainment.
i usually contibute to the entertainment side of things, and let others, with more knowlege/practice take care of that end.
but here was an opportunity for me to contribute something from my own personal experience that worked out well.
Ok, I'll admit first that I've been around a bit........."we" used to call it feeding the chickens.
Sprinkle dry on top to get the wet to set up. You're almost there; rub it with gloved hand, used a window squegee to strike it off. Burlap will work much the same as the sawdust.
Problems with the above method include but are not limited to;
You simply can't do that with todays high/eraly fast setting/hydraulic grouts. Fot the most part they set up too fast.
Even with the simplest portlandt cement based grouts, "sprinkling" or "feeding the chickens" with dry may cause adverse conditions. As you may well know, you should always allow grout to slake in the mixing bucket. there is a reason for that, and by adding dry on top of the moist grout you are asking for problems including but not limitd to color streaking ans lack of bond.
Rubbing sawdust or burlap over the grout joints will almost gaurantee that you will introduce organic fibers into the joints which may lead to a whole 'nother set of problems.
Todays grouts are formulated for the most part to eliminate the need for antiquated (yet cherished) systems such as you saw on TOH.
sorry that i didn't specify that i was using regular ol' grout, not the fast setting.
but i did specify that i did not use the saw dust, or burlap.
i always let the grout slake. remembering buck's post, for me it's a great excuse to go for a smoke.
i don't see how broadcasting dry grout over the top, and then removing it, would effect the grout between the tiles. all it is is a carrier to help carry away the excess.
in the same way that when one uses a sponge and water to carry it away, one would never be accused of adding too much water to the mix.
i imagine that any microscopic cotton fibers left behind when using a dry towel would be of no more concern than when using a wet sponge.
I wasn't directing any of my comments towards you personally, just the post.
The problem with adding the dry is that it doesn't have the chance to slake like the grout in the bucket did. It gets wetted by drawing out the moisture in the joints and not by being mixed.
I've done this often and will often hit a granual of dye in the grout that turns into a big red, green or blue streak. It work out but it indicates that the pigments and other chemicals have mot had a chance to form the proper matrix."When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
my god how I hate that dreaded red streak!
I've had it show up in white and light gray ... what the F they putting a touch of red into those colors for! And how come it never shows in the bucket ... only after ya float it out onto the floor ... and usually right when the customer walks in to see how things are going!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Back a few years I spilled a small amount of sawdust on a new tile floor that had been installed a few days before. Had to do a little fitting for a wall oven. When I picked up my drop cloth, some sawdust fell out. What a mess. I practically had to use tweezers to get every speck of the sawdust out. The dust stuck like glue to that grout and it wasn't even damp. I've heard of folks using sawdust to clean up grout but due to my experience, I wouldn't do it.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
you should have sprinkled saw dust over the whole floor, to make it all come out even...lol.
Now you tell me!Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I saw that too.
How do you think it would work with natural faced slate?
I laid some awhile back and grouted with a rubber float and sponge like I have many times with ceramic and marble. I ended up using a toothbrush, scratch awl, and brass brush to get the grout out of the niches of the slate face; a painstaking process to say the least.
DC
That sounds like you didn't seal the slate before grouting. Been there, done that, nightmare to say the least.
No, I did seal the slate first. That was part of my great surprise. I researched (possibly here) what to do, how, and what products to use before jumping into it since it was my first slate job. All I have been able to figure is either that I am too picky, too messy, my timing was off, or I had a wrong product.That grout just got into all the pockets, crevices, and raised portions of the surface and that wasn't even spreading grout over the whole tile, just at the perimeter. My plan for the next time I lay natural slate was to use a grout bag to more precisely squeeze grout into the joints. But there will still be some mess as the grout gets packed in with the float.DC
That was part of my great surprise. I researched (possibly here) what to do, how...
Was that just recently? I think I remember that one. Just now thinking (albeit a bit late) that for course surfaces like slate, maybe it's worth the extra effort to mask off the tiles before grouting. At least it's easier that removing it later with a tooth brush.
(this reminds me of scrubbing a garbage can with a tooth brush when I was in boot camp. Don't remember how I earned the privelage, but I certainly remember doing it.)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
i don't do a lot of tile work, but the last slate floor i did was a small entry way with 4x4s.
i sealed the tiles, and then grouted, and used my old method- waited a while, and then went at them with a scrubby. but considering the material and the sealer, i used one of the plastic ones.
no problemo, but it did take longer to get it all out of the natural contours of the stone.
First thing I noticed was how soupy his grout was, a big no no in my book- especially on a floor. Just goes to show, with the right accent, you can get away with a lot.
OTOH, in the DC row house project I saw a guy tiling a greenboard wall in a shower, with mastic.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
i know how (some) people around here feel about toh, and i put it in the title deliberately, hoping such an ackowledgement might... deflect any simple toh bashing.
I apologize if I hurt your feelings, Kevin.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski