Toidyseat bolt anchor spins in porcelain
PatchogPhil
| Posted in General Discussion on
Not exactly “FINE HOMEBUILDING” but….
I’ve got a 1999 Kohler Rialto one-piece toilet (good flusher BTW). The toilet seat mounts using bolts that screw into an anchor in the porcelain. There is no nut involved. The bolt holes do NOT go all the way thru the porcelain.
Time to replace the seat, and only one of the bolts will unscrew from it’s anchor. The other side just spins with the anchor.
I’ve tried lifting upwards while unscrewing, but to no avail. I do not want to put too much prying force under the bolt head while lifting, since it might crack the bowl.
The bolt looks like stainless steel. I am not sure what the anchor is made of.
Any suggestions on how to remove the bolt w/o cracking the toilet?
Replies
If upward pressure doesn't work, and you can't get to the anchor, how about just cutting the bolt off & replace with an appropriatly sized toggle bolt?
The anchor won't lift out of it's hole in the porcelain. The anchors may have been "cast" into the porcelain. The one anchor spins but it must be held in by a "lip" of the porcelain or something.
did you give Kohler a call, their cust svc is pretty good at helping with info.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Yeah, I called Kohler. They have some kind of "repair kit" which has tools to remove the old anchors and it has new anchors.
Of course the kit is out of stock right now. And it is not free, costs $20+.
I asked them how they get the old anchor out without removing any of the porcelain. They claim the kit does not damage the toilet.
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Edited 10/5/2004 4:12 pm ET by Patchogue Phil
Edited 10/5/2004 4:12 pm ET by Patchogue Phil
Why not use superglue or epoxy on the anchor/bowl connection and then try unscrewing?
I tried the suggested liquid penetrant, so now I doubt I will get any glue to stick!!!
>>I tried the suggested liquid penetrant
Clean it with Brake Klean, not the water rinse stuff but the other. No residue and it cuts all hydrocarbons. If you can't find any, use carb cleaner.
Ventilate well and extinguish all flames.
Duh.
SamT
Starting to sound like a cartoon script. :)
You thinkin' of Wile E. on a bottle rocket????
> Ventilate well and extinguish all flames.
Is that before or after you use the cleaner? ;)
Well phil, that innovation certainly wasn't thought out. I've got a one pc eljer that allows access to a nut up under that rim. All plastic nut/washer...........
20 bucks.................that's what you heard from the techs in Wisconsin?.........boy, I'd be calling higher up the totem pole and demand satisfaction.
With that lip that appears to be on the top of the anchor, doesn't look like you will be able to get anything in and around it from the top or be able to hold it to drill it out. Best of luck.
Can you access the "kit" instructions on the net?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Same model, same problem. Order the $20 kit.
You drill out the old anchor (doesn't damage the porcelain). Make sure you use the recommended drill bit size.
The new anchors are similar to expansion bolts....they drop in, and you tighten the screw until the anchor expands enough to stay tight, but not tight enough to crack the porcelain....
The most difficult part was ensuring the anchor didn't rotate in the hole while tightening the screw.
RJB,
Same model, same problem. Order the $20 kit. You drill out the old anchor (doesn't damage the porcelain). Make sure you use the recommended drill bit size. The new anchors are similar to expansion bolts....they drop in, and you tighten the screw until the anchor expands enough to stay tight, but not tight enough to crack the porcelain....The most difficult part was ensuring the anchor didn't rotate in the hole while tightening the screw.
Did you perform this fix? How does one drill out the anchor with the bolt still in it? The anchors I have (see drawing in this thread) look like tee-nuts - A tube with a shoulder stuck in the porcelain. Did you use a hole-saw that went OVER the bolt?
Do you still have the instructions and can you scan them and post them?
Phil
Phil,
Yes, I performed the fix. I'll check at home for the instructions.
The anchors get drilled out with a regular twist bit, but without the screw that held the toilet seat in.
I was able to remove one of the bolts by slipping a large flathead screwdriver between the "shoulder" of the anchor and the porcelain and turning the screwdriver's tip enough to prevent the anchor from turning, and using a second scredriver to back out the bit.
I was unable to do this with the other screw, but I was able to back it out enough to slip a hacksaw blade in and cut off the shank of the screw. A mini-hacksaw would work well.
On both anchors, the screws had corroded somewhat and stuck to the internal threads, and this is what caused the anchors to start spinning
If you are willing to sacrifice the existing seat, you could cut away the plastic around the mounting screw, and that may give you enough access to cut the screw shank.
Rick
Rick
I was replacing the seat anyway, that's how I found the one bolt would not come out.
That would be great if you still have the instructions/diagrams.
The bolts on mine look like stainless and are not corroded. The one side that unscrews is fine, no problems.
There must be seperate pieces on the one side that will not unthread. The tee-nut anchor stays in the porcelain while the bolt can move up and down a little. Maybe the anchor sheared leaving female threads loose below and still on the bolt itself.
I fear a ten cent tee-nut is gonna be a major pain.
Phil
Have you tried tightening it up to reseat the anchor?
SamT
Sam
Yes I have. Just spins. Something gave away after a turn and a half when I first tried to unscrew it.
Phil
Phil,
Found the instructions from the anchor nut kit from Khohler.
I don't have a scanner, but here is what the instructions say:
1. Drill out the existing anchor nut with a 11/32 bit. Remove the debris from around the hole.
2. Insert the anchor nut into the hole, and turn the setting screw completely into the replacement anchor nut.
3. Position a slotted screwdriver into the space between the anchor nut head and the vitreous china to prevent the anchor nut from rotating. Use a second screwdriver to tighten the setting screw and secure the anchor nut in place so it will not move. Do not overtighten.
4. Remove the setting screw.
5. Repeat for the other anchor nut.
6. Discard the setting screw.
7. Install the seat.
The only really useful info. is step 1 (for the drill bit size) and 3 for how to prevent the new nut from turning as the setting screw deforms the anchor nut. (I would have been worried about chipping/cracking the china)
I tried to find the anchor nuts w/o going through Kohler, but was unable to. As you know from removing the seat, the mounting holes are smaller that the typical bolts that are supplied w/most seats, and I was concerned that the Hilti type expanding anchors would crack the china.
BTW...Lowes usually carries Kohler seats.
Rick
Thanks Rick, I greatly appreciate what you have done.
There doesn't seem to be anything that addresses how to get the existing screw/bolt *OUT* since it just spins.
If I am correct, the nut is a separate piece from the anchor?
Even if I cut off the head of the bolt and the few threads that stick up past the anchor, I'll still have a nut and a length of bolt shank threads stuck under the anchor. I have tried prying upwards under the bolt head while unscrewing. There is not enough friction generated to overcome the tightness of the nut, if you understand what I mean.
I called and I also emailed Kohler with this problem. They just want to sell me the kit. Nothing addresses how to get the existing bolt out so as to drill out the anchor.
Would be funny to see the looks I'd get if I bring the toilet to a machinist! "Um, must be a really bad clog ya got there?"
Phil
Phil,
You can still use the 11/32" bit to drill out the anchor even with the body of the bolt in the anchor. The main reason to get the bolt flush, or slightly below the anchor opening, is so the bit doesn't "walk" when you start drilling, and damage the china.
I held my breath when taking the drill to the anchor, but it worked without any damage.
On the bolt that I couldn't remove, before I cut off the head, I was able to lift the bolt slightly, stripping the threads, enough that once I cut the bolt head off, the body of the bolt was not above the anchor.
You could re-cut the shank after removing the head, or use end nippers to get the shank relatively flush w/the anchor, or you could use a nailset to GENTLY tap the remaining bolt further into the anchor.
When you drill, the entire anchor will spin slightly untill you penetrate far enough, then the bottom and the lower part of the sides will fall into the body of the toilet. You can then use your fingers to remove the shoulder/rim part of the anchor.
Let me know how it all comes out...(the repair)
One last thing.....I'm not exactly sure what you mean about a nut on the anchor....there is no nut on the anchor. The body of the anchor deforms when tightened w/a set screw..it is a pressure/friction fit, which is why it is spinning now....
Edited 10/8/2004 12:42 pm ET by RJB
Phil,
As a last resort, maybe you can soak the thing in muriatic (swimming pool) acid.
Apply with an eye dropper til the recess is full, wait about an hour, remove as much liquid as you can and replace it with fresh acid. Repeat till the metal is thin and weak enough to pull out.
SamT
Before you get too destructive, cut away the hinge arm of the seat so that you can expose the threaded joint. Squirt a LITTLE Liquid Wrench or some such in there, trying to minimize the amount that runs down around the outside of the anchor.