Over the past couple months, I’ve noticed that the area around the the base of my toliet has started to leak. More of an “oozing” I guess.
The floor is not very level and I’ve the toliet wants to shift forward weight is placed on the bowl.
I assuming the leak is related to this. Can I glue some shims on the base of the toliet or is there a better way?
Thanks for any thoughts!
Patrick
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Replies
You need to pull the toilet up and replace the wax ring that seals it to the flange of the waste pipe below. In the same section of the hardware store that sells the wax rings, you will find small plastic shims that you can use to level the toilet. These plastic shims won't rot like wood shims would. Tighten the brass bolts afterwards, and it should stay in place.
A toilet must be solid, the wax rings have no recovery (the ones with foam ring may have a little) but once it rocks it is not going to make a gas proof seal.
I set the toilet without the wax, shim for no rock. I usually put a pencil mark on the floor and index the shims. Sometimes if not in a hurry will use adhesive caulk to hold shims in place to floor.
I use various pieces of plastic or tile (vinyl) to shim. Whatever will make the desired thickness. Then I place the ring on the floor flange, (counter to most ring box instr) and carefully set the toilet down, guiding on the flange bolts. If flange is not proud of floor I use the thicker wax ring. Prefer the ones with the foam insert.
Gently wiggle it down, sit on it and wiggle a little, then install the nuts snug but not overtightened. Caulk around base to floor leaving off caulk on very back edge for an inch or two.
Some folks like the gee whiz no wax seals but the only waxfree one I think I would use is a Fernco that bonds to the bottom of the toilet but I have not found any local source for them and have not tried them.
I like the fluidmaster non-wax seals. They are a plastic tube that is pushed up against the bottom of the toilet flange. I've installed about 5 of them and they all work great - no leaks, even on toilets that rock a little (temp installations).
HD has them.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Is this new construction, or repairs on toilets that have used wax rings in the past? I have trouble imagining how you can get a good seal on a toilet that has been contaminated with wax previously.
Remodels mostly, some new, Gloves and a scraper are all you need to clean. It comes off pretty easy, and it's not like it has to be perfectly clear of wax before you can use the other seal.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Like Paul said, as far as I know the only one that actually glues/adheres to the toilet base is the Fernco I described. While I have not used the one Paul uses I have removed one and some other ones here have had some less than favorable comments. I would feel better about them if they had some spring or something to help push up and seal.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I think the best way is the old tried and true plaster of paris.
Pull up the toilet, clean the floor, the flange and the base of the toilet. Set the toilet dry and mark the floor when it is lined up right. Lift the toilet, push a new way ring onto the bottum of the toilet, mix up some PoP and gob it onto the floor insinde the marks you made. Squish the toilet dowmn compressing the plaster and wax, tighten bolts. Clean up exess plaster.
Do it that way, 2-ton tessie can then writhe around on it trying to sqeeze out the most stuburn of turds without it rocking.
These messages have been a big help. Looks like I have a project for Saturday morning. The big box store has the Fernco tubes, or should I just go with the .99 wax ring?
Nothing works better than the Fernco product...but they only work properly on PVC drain pipe. If that's what you've got to deal with, use the Fernco.
Unless you don't stick it to the toilet properly, it's impossible for a toilet to leak when using them.
Then do as the others have suggested to level and caulk the toilet.
I used Ferncos in 2 of my toilets in the house. Cast with lead liners, bronze bases. No leaks.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
No, they won't leak water because the end of the fitting is stuck way down in the pipe, but they will leak sewer gas because the Fernco fitting usually doesn't fit properly in the cast iron pipe fitting. If yours fits properly, that's a rare occurance.
If the toilet is totally sealed to the floor, that's not a problem.
Which one were you using? They have three models, one for 3" pipe, one for 4" pipe, and one for toilet flange inserted into 4" pipe (3 1/2). I guess if CI pipe is not pretty clean the knife edge seals would not seal well too.
http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/wax-free-toilet-sealFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I use both the 3" & 4" sizes all the time. I probably have used a hundred of them so far and i'm not a plumber by trade. They are a great product. I convinced our local building supplier to stock them when you couldn't find them anywhere in a store.
That said, I have never found a case where they would seal an old cast iron pipe setup properly, so I usually use one or two wax rings in those situations.
I am trying to get the plumbers here to use them, but it's falling on deaf ears. Why would you want to do something different??? We have been using wax rings for 75 years!!!
I was questioning which 4" you were using, the fts-4 is for pipe but the fts-4cf is for the flange and is a little smaller. I have never been able to find them. Tried to get my supplier which is also Heavy Duty Tools.net to stock them and they say the same thing, the plumbers do not want to change.
Most of their clientelle only wants the basic wax ring and will add one of the flangeless ones on top if needed.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Actually, the local Home Depot started stocking them in one size...3". Now does that make any sense?? If you are going to stock the product, why not stock all of the sizes??
A Fernco fitting costs about $2 more than two wax rings at our supplier. They are adaptable to almost any floor thickness and the toilet can be removed and replaced in a nice neat, clean installation if you want to change floor coverings.
If I was a plumber, I'd use them just because they are more dependable, even if you would spend another $3 on the installation. What the heck, at $95 an hour, how would the customer even notice it?
BTW, I've never had occasion to use the seal where the toilet flange sits inside the 4" pipe. In fact, I'll check next time I go into the plumbing supply and see if they even stock that one.
Edited 12/17/2008 5:06 pm ET by BoJangles
Grab a couple of rings. It will save you time if you need more than 1. I have used plastic from milk jugs,pieces of credit cards. You might need new hold down bolts also.
Milk jugs, that's a good idea. I've used the plastic straws to slip on the toilet bowl bolts to make it easier to lower the bowl onto them. I swore that if I ever replace another toilet on a wooden floor I would get a slab of stone (marble, etc.) , I dunno, maybe 16"x16" (enough for the toilet to sit on with extra room all around) hole cut for the horn, and recess it into the floor first, then set the toilet onto that. Solid base, and prevents that, ahem, last drip from soaking into the wooden floor and being stinky.I think I saw this in a Taunton publication also.Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck.Merry Christmas.Alan
This is the Fernco product I was talking about, not tried it but looks good. If you follow the proceedure I and others described a good quality wax ring works, do not get the .99 one. They do not have the funnel type flange and are usually a little short. Some use them to augment a ring when the floor flange is low. I prefer to buy the thicker ones if needed.
http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/wax-free-toilet-sealFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
The fluidmaster site is retarded by being overly flash script enabled. Hereare theinstructions for the product I'm takling about. Basicly, it sits proud of the toilet flang, and it gets pressed down against the resistence of a rubber ring to keep it positively sealed when you set the toilet.
If you don't get it right, pick itup andreset it -it's completely reusable. It also doesn't need the toilet baseto be perfectly clean.
http://www.fluidmaster.com/pdfs/7504_instructions.pdf
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
>>>2-ton tessie can then writhe around on it trying to sqeeze out the most stuburn of turds without it rocking. Boy, that conjures up a vision....Scott.
Is it leaking, or is the floor just being stained by wax from the wax ring?
Normally, caulking with silicon around the base will keep it from rocking. ANY rocking will break the wax ring seal. A broken wax seal "sounds" different when flushing.
I had one toilet that kept breaking the wax seal. It would rock no mater how much caulking was done. The problem was that the "rough-in" was less than 12" and so the tank kept it tipped and it would never sit flat. It was solved by cutting a recess into the wall.
Keep in mind, as you prepare for Saturday, that when you pull the toilet you could find that the floor it is mounted on has suffered some rot if the leaking has been going on for some time. If that's the case, you'll have to replace enough of the floor around the toilet to provide a firm base.
What's on the floor - linoleum, tile ??
This is a relatively new installation with PVC pipe. Fortunately the floor is tile and the leak hasn't been going on for too long. I replaced the first wax ring about 6 weeks ago. Great to know the shims will fix the problem. I think I'll try the Fernco fitting instead of wax. My Great Dane got into the trash with the remnants of last wax ring and left some waxy paw prints. Not a good way to promote harmony at home...Thanks again for the info..
Just be sure to get the right fernco product.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
A couple of months ago I replaced a show in a 20 YO home that was rotted.The toilet and shower where in a separate room from the vanities.I am not sure, but I think that the toilet was orginal to the house and has not been moved since.Anyway I pulled it to give me working room.The wax seal never bonded to the toilet on about 1/2 the way around. But it was stuck good to the flange.There was no sign of it having ever leaked.But of course if there had been any kind of blockage they would have gotten lots of "water" out of it..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Right, usually there is not a fluid leak unless there is a backup, gas leaks are a different story though.
I know I have enough wax it it is oozing out of the slotted hole for the bolt. (;-)
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Edited 12/17/2008 9:24 pm ET by rasconc
You have to determine why the toilet rocks! or is the floor rocking ie rotted. How much seeped down to the sub floor before it ozzed out from the toilet?
Seen this a few times. Be prepared to beef up the floor and level 1st then a wax ring should do the job.
Certainly a good point but here is OP's post #24:
This is a relatively new installation with PVC pipe. Fortunately the floor is tile and the leak hasn't been going on for too long. I replaced the first wax ring about 6 weeks ago.
It is something I look at every time. It is usually a tile floor problem that is most noticeable. But I have seen some pretty crude joints under the terlit. (;-)For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
wax rings are really a poor design, even tho in some cases they work fine. The fernco and fluidmaster are better designs.
I would not disagree however properly done the wax should be fine, esp. if one of the re-engineered "upscale "ones with foam and plastic flange and correct height.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Guys,Thanks for the advice on this one. I used the Fernco fitting and a couple nylon shims. The Fernco installed easily. I think the worst part was getting the adhesive to hold the fitting to the base of the toliet before installing.Everything's squared away now, no leaks.